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Old 11-03-2012, 01:56 PM
 
19,045 posts, read 25,112,737 times
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This is difficult to talk about, but I'm at such an impasse and besides my best friend and husband it's just not something I speak about with people. My issue with my father is two-pronged, but umbrellaed under a running theme.

1. He speaks inappropriately; always has since I was a small child. It's as if he's missing the filter that goes between his brain and his mouth. He can easily make people around him uncomfortable because the language is often sexual in nature. I truly believe that he has no idea what he's saying/doing and how inappropriate it is. My husband and friends have confirmed that he pretty much gets disgusting. When I was younger it caused a lot of issues, but over the years I just started ignoring it or telling him to stop while he's blathering. I have loyalty towards him and compassion, which could possibly be dysfunctional guilt. I'm not sure about the latter. Under the surface I have always resented him for it, but he had such a rough upbringing and I think he did his best, he's just a screwed up, hurt person.

I have a daughter on the way (god willing all goes well) and obviously this stuff has been on my mind for the future. It's changing what I'm willing to deal with.

2. He's also a sexist, but he doesn't know that he's a sexist. I'm a feminist. I'm not really active in any movements or anything, but I'm clear on what is and is not ok for me as a woman. My father comments from small things like women do not have common sense to women lack technical aptitude all the way to most modern young women being sluts, etc. He throws in his comments about not being turned on by such women in between noticing a nice pair of jugs when he sees something he likes. My objections are received as me being a radical feminist or superior. I understand that many people are sexist (even women), but his sexism runs along a spectrum with issue #1 above.

I'm writing this now because we recently had a falling out. It was over something stupid (I corrected him for cutting me off when speaking, etc), but it turned into a much larger argument about resentments coming from both sides. In a way it was good to have happened because this was an area I know I needed to address, but was avoiding to keep the peace. Besides him being a sexist inappropriate speaker form time to time, we get along well enough. Further, he doesn't really have that many people in his life. I'm one of the few that speaks with him regularly and I do love him. I'm very loyal to him and the idea of him being alone kills me. To reiterate, I don't think he means harm. He's just a jack ass.

I told him that for us to continue communication there were conditions that he would need to abide, specifically that he is to be mindful of what he says and how he says it. I have daughter coming into the picture and there is just no way I'm going to allow any family member to denigrate, objectify, or negatively speak about women as a gender. The objectifying portion will be used for correction for his inappropriate comments. If he would simply not discuss women at all there would probably be no problems.

He said that he is who he is. He's not going to have a conditional relationship with me and that I would either have to take him as he is or not.This is so difficult because I know that he doesn't understand that what he says is not only wrong, but inappropriate.

If you respond, please don't be harsh. My father likely has some undiagnosed mental/emotional illness combined with being an Archie Bunker type jack ass. I don't want a thread trashing him. I'm curious what others would do. Cut him off completely? Keep the relationship largely to phone conversations and monitor closely when everyone is together. Keep demanding behavioral change?
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:39 PM
 
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If you can handle your father's comments, then by all means remain in contact. It will be several years before anything negative he says will register for your little girl. When you reach that point, you can revisit the frequency and means of contact.

Besides, I've known several grandfathers who thought the world revolved around their grandchildren, regardless of their sex. Give him a chance.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:52 PM
 
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I really want to. We don't live in the same state, so it's unlikely my child will be his world, but it would be nice not to be estranged. With that said, going back to ignoring the issues and this event doesn't seem likely. I can't imagine how this won't result in some kind of fracture to what we had even if I try to make peace. And that only some level of honesty at this point is necessary for a new, genuine relationship to develop.

Thanks for the response.
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:00 PM
 
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I think your daughter's upbringing is more important. I think what you did was limit setting. It remains to be seen whether it is adequate motivation. But you do have the upper hand in that it IS his grand daughter. I think you should stick to your guns with your very reasonable limits and see what he does. Remain kind, compassionate... and FIRM. Calmly. Good luck. I am sorry that this is your scene.
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:17 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
11,495 posts, read 26,723,062 times
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We discontinued contact with my FIL for reasons similiar to the ones you posted above. He died this year and neither of my kids have any memory of him, good or bad. I don't regret our choice though...my kids are old enough to remember someone's remarks and take them seriously.

On a sadder note, my dad has early-onset dementia and he's been saying really weird things to my oldest daughter lately (for example he took a dog toy that was a rubber flamingo, tied its legs together, handed it to her and said that all good girls needed to stay exactly like that). She's 10 and the comments aren't relevant. He also never said anything like that to me or my sisters when we were kids. It's a little difficult for her to deal with but at least he has illness to blame. We're not leaving him alone with my daughters right now because we don't know what he might say next.
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:40 PM
 
19,045 posts, read 25,112,737 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
I think your daughter's upbringing is more important. I think what you did was limit setting. It remains to be seen whether it is adequate motivation. But you do have the upper hand in that it IS his grand daughter. I think you should stick to your guns with your very reasonable limits and see what he does. Remain kind, compassionate... and FIRM. Calmly. Good luck. I am sorry that this is your scene.
I hope it's enough of a motivation. A few minutes ago I was speaking with my husband and he made a poignant analogy. "Your father learned to change his diet when he developed diabetes. He can learn to change his speech for his daughter". That really hit me. I hate that he thinks I think I'm superior to him. I worry so much for both my parents. I've been up front and center for him emotionally, financially (doesn't always have his shyte together), and in friendship over the years. I'm very family oriented and typically speak with both my folks on a daily basis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgehog_Mom View Post
We discontinued contact with my FIL for reasons similiar to the ones you posted above. He died this year and neither of my kids have any memory of him, good or bad. I don't regret our choice though...my kids are old enough to remember someone's remarks and take them seriously.

On a sadder note, my dad has early-onset dementia and he's been saying really weird things to my oldest daughter lately (for example he took a dog toy that was a rubber flamingo, tied its legs together, handed it to her and said that all good girls needed to stay exactly like that). She's 10 and the comments aren't relevant. He also never said anything like that to me or my sisters when we were kids. It's a little difficult for her to deal with but at least he has illness to blame. We're not leaving him alone with my daughters right now because we don't know what he might say next.
Yea, you got it. That's exactly it. Like you say, at least you have the dementia to blame it on. And it's so hard talking about it with people offline because I don't want them thinking he was a child molester or anything. He never did that to me. It was just the speech and it was pretty bad. Regardless of the state of our relationship in the future, I couldn't leave my kid alone with him.
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:55 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,630,475 times
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Sexist inappropriate grandpa is better than no grandpa. You turned out a strong woman why wouldn't your daughter?
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:36 PM
 
19,045 posts, read 25,112,737 times
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Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Sexist inappropriate grandpa is better than no grandpa. You turned out a strong woman why wouldn't your daughter?
I certainly wouldn't want my daughter to go through what I went through. It was child abuse. It was quite perverted. I turned out the way I did due to other life events. Beyond that, I don't want to expose her to sexism, racism, or any of the isms as a child. At least not from her family and safe place.
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:45 PM
 
1,677 posts, read 2,477,306 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
I certainly wouldn't want my daughter to go through what I went through. It was child abuse. It was quite perverted. I turned out the way I did due to other life events. Beyond that, I don't want to expose her to sexism, racism, or any of the isms as a child. At least not from her family and safe place.
If you feel this strongly about it, I would definitely limit contact between him and his granddaughter until he agrees to watch his mouth. At least while she's very young and impressionable. When she gets older, you can tell her, "don't pay any attention to some of the things grandpa says, he just likes to run his mouth" and she will know not to take it to heart. But for young kids, it can be confusing. Hopefully, having a new granddaughter will be enough motivation for him to adjust his ways a little bit. Good luck.
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:50 PM
 
16,235 posts, read 25,075,722 times
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He will more than likely turn to mush when your daughter comes. Do you have a really game friend...invite that friend over and have him talk just like your father, don't let father know it is a set up......see if your father reacts....
You'll be surprised how a granddaughter can tame a wild beast. But, by all means, put him on notice...and pull the plug while baby is very small if he doesn't change.
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