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Old 02-25-2013, 09:01 PM
 
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The question is, how do I 'take a stand' without fighting and him harbouring more resentment, which may eventually spill over into walking out? Because as sad as it sounds, even though I'm not happy with the way things are, I also don't want to break our family up over it and I don't want to lose him. I want to get him over to my side, without fighting.
I've done the 'non-confrontational talk' to death, as I've said often he'll agree with me and make promises but doesn't follow through, and often he'll also get all defensive and go on about how he already does so much and it's never enough etc. If I just get up and leave for a weekend and dump DS on his lap, as has been suggested here, I can't even predict what his reaction will be, but I'm betting I won't be hearing the end of it for a long, long time, that is if he doesn't walk out the minute I'm back. Honestly, I'm not ready to take such drastic measures and risk what's at stake. FWIW, he doesn't deny how much work I do or discount that it's hard - in fact, he's perfectly aware that it's hard and that's precisely why he doesn't want to do it, his argument is that he's got his job and since I chose to be a sahm, this is mine, and he shouldn't have to deal with it, aside from spending minimal time playing with DS only when he feels like it. I guess what I was looking for is some kind of foolproof approach/argument I could make that would make him realize he's wrong on this, and make him see my side of it without getting pissed off, but I guess that's too simplistic and doesn't exist...
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:03 PM
 
Location: here
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Originally Posted by EvilCookie View Post
The question is, how do I get him to do it without fighting and him harbouring more resentment, which may eventually spill over into walking out? Because as sad as it sounds, even though I'm not happy with the way things are, I also don't want to break our family up over it and I don't want to lose him. I want to get him over to my side, without fighting.
I've done the 'non-confrontational talk' to death, as I've said often he'll agree with me and make promises but doesn't follow through, and often he'll also get all defensive and go on about how he already does so much and it's never enough etc. If I just get up and leave for a weekend and dump DS on his lap, as has been suggested here, I can't even predict what his reaction will be, but I'm betting I won't be hearing the end of it for a long, long time, that is if he doesn't walk out the minute I'm back. Honestly, I'm not ready to take such drastic measures and risk what's involved. FWIW, he doesn't deny how much work I do or discount that it's hard - in fact, he's perfectly aware that it's hard and that's precisely why he doesn't want to do it, his argument is that he's got his job and since I chose to be a sahm, this is mine, and he shouldn't have to deal with it, aside from spending minimal time playing with DS only when he feels like it. I guess what I was looking for is some kind of foolproof approach/argument I could make that would just make him see my side of it and agree with me without getting pissed off, but I guess that's too simplistic and doesn't exist...
Go to a couples therapist. Seriously.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tiffjoy View Post
Goodness. There are an awful lot of people who seem to be giving your DH quite a pass on being a real husband and father and then blaming you for being an awful wife and mother.
This. And I agree with your whole post. Also, I have an ex-boyfriend who was verbally abusive and I think that's being glossed over here. It's hard to be bring your SO a drink and put on slinky underwear when he was calling you a "lazy *****" three days earlier. Hard, stressful times bring out the worst in people and this sounds like the first time you are experiencing this, having been no kids and then one kid with a lot of family around for most of your relationship. Honestly, I would be considering counseling to get to the root of why he thinks that sort of language and condenscension is OK. I wasn't married to my jerk and had no kids, so I just left. Didn't need a lifetime of that craziness.

While I do think you should adjust your own expectations, I'm laughing at the notion that your poor husband needs a break when he gets home. You said he works a standard day with very little OT. Well, so do I. The second part of my day starts at 5 when I leave work and go pick up my 3-year-old from day care. But much like Tiffjoy, my DH and I have managed to find a way split duties. I do a little bit more overall, but not to the point where I feel like I do everything. And probably because we just have one child, we do manage to carve out "free time." I love my husband and I love my child, but sometimes I just want to sit with my girlfriends in Starbucks for two hours and talk about nothing. LOL But I know lots of moms differ with that.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
Go to a couples therapist. Seriously.
I really don't see him agreeing to it, he's far from a 'therapy' type of person, doesn't believe in all that touchy-feely stuff and basically thinks they're a waste of time...to be honest, I don't have all that much faith in couples therapy myself, I think either both people have it in them to make changes, or they don't and then no therapy is going to help. I'm open-minded though, so I'd give it a shot, but like I said I reaaaally don't see DH going...hell, he'll barely drag himself to a doctor when he's ill.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
Go to a couples therapist. Seriously.
AND, from a nonparent, please don't have any more kids until you get this worked out. Your husband, as you've described him herein, is not a good role model and is not emotionally or physically present for you or your son. You don't need another kid in the mix. The situation won't turn out well.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:14 PM
 
4,043 posts, read 7,425,419 times
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Originally Posted by EvilCookie View Post
I'm sorry this is so long, but I just feel I need some objective viewpoints and to get it off my chest

Here’s the story: I’m a SAHM (have always wanted to be one) to a three year old boy, hubby has a good job, decent pay, a very regular schedule, excellent working conditions (this is a company known as one of the best in the world for employee comfort and benefits), not much stress and almost no overtime. We moved for his job a year ago, away from my hometown where both of our families are. Until then, we lived five minutes away from my parents, and since having our son I’ve always had a ton of help from them – which basically meant DH did very little when it came to taking care of DS – my parents adore DS to bits, he’s the first grandchild, were always offering to take him on weekends, my mom would come over to help, etc. So we both enjoyed fairly stress-free parenting as far as that went. DH even slept in a separate room for the first year so he wasn't woken by the baby while I was nursing.

Now that we moved, we’ve been progressively fighting more and more over splitting the work, to the point where I start crying because I feel that I’m being treated unfairly and I don’t deserve the way DH is starting to talk to me (he didn’t use to be like that). He’s been getting progressively more cruel and insulting when arguing with me instead of discussing things calmly and it’s just breaking my heart. Before we moved I was extremely concerned about not having anyone around to help with DS when I need it, and DH promised over and over again that he’ll step up, help out, spend time with him etc. Well our fights tend to stem from the fact that apparently he thinks he’s doing a lot and that I’m being unreasonably demanding, lazy, entitled, etc. However, I look around at other families where moms are also SAH and how much their husbands do, and add up the time DH actually spends with DS one on one, and it’s really not that much. That’s kind of why I want to just throw it out here and lay out exactly what each one of us does, and hear objective opinions on whether I’m really expecting too much, or whether DH is being unreasonable. So this is how our typical workload is split:

- DH works, does taxes, pays bills, deals with most financial paperwork but assigns some of it to me every once in a while (I admit I’m completely terrible at anything finance-related)
- I take care of all the household needs – cooking, shopping, cleaning, laundry, etc. I take care of DS the entire day, schedule all his classes, activities, doctor visits, etc, take him to different places, try to make sure he’s getting lots of fun experiences, etc
- On a typical day DH usually spends about 1-1.5 hours with DS after getting home at 6pm – usually I’ll take 40-60 minutes to do something like cook, grocery shop (so that I’m not dragging DS around a germy store unnecessarily), or go the gym a couple times a week. Then DH does his bath – up until they get out, then I take him to dress and do the rest of the bedtime routine – supper, milk, reading, potty, and sit with him until he’s asleep which is sometimes not until 10 pm if he had a late nap.
- DS gets up at 7:30, so I try to be in bed myself before midnight at the latest, by the time I got him in bed I’m usually exhausted, I’ll finish cleaning up the kitchen and such, take a shower, and all I want to do is crawl into bed. At this point DH will often get huffy that I’m not spending enough time with him and will complain that I don’t initiate sex and am not passionate enough – and I admit it’s true, it’s just I have no damn energy to be passionate!
- On weekends I’m usually still the one getting up with DS and letting DH sleep in until 10 or so, otherwise he gets extremely grumpy. We’ll then go somewhere all together. Often DH will ask that we let him ‘chill’ for the morning so I’ll take DS and we go somewhere ourselves until his naptime.

Now, here’s when most trouble starts. I’m a night owl and it’s grueling to be getting up at 7:30 am over and over again with no snooze button, lol, no sick days, no weekends. So every few weeks I’ll beg DH to get up with him one weekend day and let me sleep in. He’ll usually end up agreeing but not before grumbling and complaining about it – and then after he’s agreed, he’ll complain again when the morning actually comes, and while getting up he’ll whine about how he only had 4 hours of sleep (he does suffer from insomnia, but also stays up later than he should playing computer games), he’ll start throwing insults at me that I’m lazy and that he works and provides for us and should be able to get sleep on weekends yadda yadda (he gets up for work an hour after DS does on weekdays). He’ll get up and get DS in a huff, and then will nag at me to get up after an hour or so so he can go back to sleep. These mornings are considered a great gift on his part and I need to pretty much bow down and kiss his feet. On very rare occasions he’ll watch DS for a couple of hours while I run to the mall or get a haircut or meet a friend, but again these are rare and require begging and are accompanied by tons of sighing and complaining, so it becomes almost not worth it. He rarely takes DS out for a walk without me, only if I again beg and grovel to let me have some time to myself and get something done at home in the meantime – and again he’ll go on how I’m so lazy and the more he does the more I ask for – although I have no idea where the ‘more’ is coming from. He never ever offers to take DS and give me some time off on his own; I’ve asked for a day off as my only gift for my birthday and Mother’s Day, and even then he complained afterwards and for the next six months it becomes his trump card, that he gave me time off that time so now I have to do this and that. I’m writing this up today because the same thing happened, I have a cold, and asked DH to take DS to the park without me. He got all huffy and tried to talk me into coming with them and when I said I’d really rather stay home because I’m not feeling great and I have the whole week coming up when I have to deal with DS myself, he got all pissy again and told me I’m getting lazier and lazier and blah blah blah. I’m seriously getting so tired and frustrated and sick of being treated like that. And the problem is he honestly thinks he does a LOT and that i should be grateful I don’t need to work. I am, believe me, but I’m also human and not a robot and I need breaks every once in a while – ones that don’t include chores, because he tends to count those in as my personal time somehow if he watches DS in the meantime. In total, he’ll spend maybe 4 hours total at most with DS on weekends – and that’s mostly playing with him, I still do all the dressing, meals, naps, etc. And most of that time he wants me to be there just in case. He’ll run around with him on the playground for 15 minutes, and then will go ‘okay, now your turn’ for the rest of the time – and my argument that I do it every.other.damn.day.of.the.week doesn’t count – because during the week he WORKS. Ugh. Anyways I could go on but there’s probably no point . I’d appreciate any input or opinions anyone has. And yes, I’ve talked to him calmly and we’ve discussed it plenty of times – he’ll always agree to be nice and help and apologizes for being mean to me – and then when it comes down to it it’s the same thing over again. Oh and I don’t have a work visa so putting DS in daycare and working isn’t an option – and even if it was I wouldn’t want to since I’d just end up doing double shift at work and then home at this rate...
Get a full-time job. See how that works out.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by EvilCookie View Post
Honestly, I'm not exaggerating - this is why I've tried to be precise in describing our schedules, there's no point for me to be lying as I really did want to hear objective opinions. Really, how do I explain it, it's not even so much about me needing more time; it's more about DH's attitude about it: the assumption that ANY time he spends with DS is this huge favor to me, and then even if he agrees to it it's the attitude and the eye rolling and bitching and whining. THAT'S probably the biggest issue here. I'd be happy to sit down with him and figure out how much alone time he's willing to give me - even if it's one morning a month or something, or a trip to the mall every few weeks, I'd be happy enough at least knowing that's there and that's when I get my break. And I'd be ecstatic if at least sometimes he'd say, I'm gonna take DS for a bike ride, spend some boy time, you go do something nice for yourself. If I at least heard that EVER, I'd be grateful, because not only it gives me a break, but I think it's good for both of them to spend time one-on-one without always leaning on me. But it NEVER happens.

I don't nag him or whine about how much he doesn't do - unless he starts it up first. I always start off with asking him nicely, always thank him and praise him whenever he does help, tell him how important it's to their relationship.
But still, here's how it often goes:

Me: Honey, would you please stay with DS for a few hours this sunday, I wanna run off to the mall to get a few things
DH: *sigh, grimace, eyeroll*
Me: oh come on, please, DS won't let me try anything on and I really just want the couple of hours to myself, I haven't been out on my own in like three months
DH: *sigh, annoyed tone*, yea yea, I guess
Me: come on, I won't be too long, you guys could go out on the bike, spend some boy time...
DH *more annoyed tone* yea fine, I said yes, okay?
Me: okay, thank you, I appreciate it, I really need the break!
DH: *grumpy* yea yea, you get plenty of breaks, your life's one big break...
Me: *getting annoyed now* oh yea, well when was the last time I actually went off to do something for myself?
DH: you're always going somewhere, you went to the store two nights ago, then to get your haircut that time (three weeks ago)...
Me: well getting milk doesn't really count as me time, and yes I need a haircut every three months or so...
DH: yea yea, whatever, I said I'll do it, okay? *waving me away*

Then when the day actually comes, he'll be grumpy, he'll ask when I'll be home, if I say more than two hours or so it's more grimacing so I usually don't, and god forbid I'm five minutes late, I need to call and warn him and apologize, otherwise it's 'why did you take you so long, he did this and that and I didn't know where his snack was and blah blah". I mean, REALLY takes the fun out of it, you know? So it's either never getting out on my own or listening to all this.

Sigh, I guess what I really miss about having my family around is not just the AMOUNT of help, it's the fact of unconditional help. That's what I'm really missing, is that I feel I can't leave our child with his own father without him acting as a babysitter, and a not very nice one at that. If I left DS with my mom I knew that I could go and no one was watching the clock on me and building up resentment and treating it like this huge frigging favor...and when I leave him with his own FATHER I'm always feeling like I need to rush, I need to listen to him complain and all that...it's like, if you already agree to it, at least don't make me feel like sh*t about it, you know? Or tell me, I don't want to spend any time with my own son, go hire a babysitter. Instead he does this martyr thing where he does SOOO much and all I want is more - but the LESS I ask, the less he does, so I can't win!!
I don't think that's unusual. Sorry, but I have tried on clothing maybe three times in 4 years. I buy everything online. And husband ******* about the bill, too. That's just how it is. I work and have to actually beg for and feel guilty about getting time to actually do the work (I have to do a lot at home). As if I'm asking for time to eat bon bons and sit on the couch. Your situation is not unusual. The question is really not about is it fair or not, it's about do you want to keep your marriage or not. If you do, you're going to need to give up on the idea of him doing more.

Things will get better in a year or two. This is really only temporary. Also, I still don't understand why you can't get a babysitter. Then you wouldn't have to upset the husband and you'd both be happier. Forget hoping he'll want to spend time with his child. That comes later (I think, but I'm still waiting). Also, it's his choice (what he "wants" and doesn't want) and you should just let him be - it's adding another problem that you don't really need to add.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by marie5v View Post
I don't think that's unusual. Sorry, but I have tried on clothing maybe three times in 4 years. I buy everything online. And husband ******* about the bill, too. That's just how it is. I work and have to actually beg for and feel guilty about getting time to actually do the work (I have to do a lot at home). As if I'm asking for time to eat bon bons and sit on the couch. Your situation is not unusual. The question is really not about is it fair or not, it's about do you want to keep your marriage or not. If you do, you're going to need to give up on the idea of him doing more.

Things will get better in a year or two. This is really only temporary. Also, I still don't understand why you can't get a babysitter. Then you wouldn't have to upset the husband and you'd both be happier. Forget hoping he'll want to spend time with his child. That comes later (I think, but I'm still waiting). Also, it's his choice (what he "wants" and doesn't want) and you should just let him be - it's adding another problem that you don't really need to add.
I'm so sorry, it just boggles my mind that women advocate just putting up with this. I barely go shopping either, but my DH isn't trotting off to do his own thing. We are both equally busy working and parenting. It isn't all the mom's job to raise the kids.

My DH is not perfect (neither am I!) but he knows being a dad is more than a word. It's actions and time and commitment and self sacrifice. If he couldn't handle being a real father, not just a father in name and monetary support, then counseling wouldn't be an optional thing. It would be a mandatory we are doing this to prevent me from leaving you thing. This isn't healthy, what you or the OP have described. Fathers should spend time with their children from day one, not "later."

It sounds like the OP isn't the perfect wife. Shocker. Neither am I. She probably has room for improvement. So do many of us, I'd guess, both husbands and wives. But to me, the huge flag is the way he talks to her and his resistance to spending any time with his own child. Those things don't just go away on their own. An adult doesn't outgrow those attitudes and that kind of disinterest and selfishness.

OP, I would seek out a counselor at least for yourself if DH won't go. Try to get some perspective and outside opinions from a balanced professional.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tiffjoy View Post
My DH is not perfect (neither am I!) but he knows being a dad is more than a word. It's actions and time and commitment and self sacrifice. If he couldn't handle being a real father, not just a father in name and monetary support, then counseling wouldn't be an optional thing. It would be a mandatory we are doing this to prevent me from leaving you thing. This isn't healthy, what you or the OP have described. Fathers should spend time with their children from day one, not "later."
The thing is, he sincerely believes that the stuff he already does qualifies him as a fantastic father and that he's already sacrificing so much of his time and effort for us. Because, basically, if it wasn't for DS, he'd buy himself a nicer car, he'd sleep in till 1 pm on weekends like he used to and spend the rest of the time chilling out - so to him, getting up at 10 or 11 and going out somewhere for a family-friendly activity is already a big departure from what he'd prefer to be doing - but because he does it, in his mind it's 'for us' and it makes him a great father. It's not the quality of the time so much as quantity - so if he tosses DS for 10 minutes and makes him laugh, he feels good and to him, he's done his 'good father' thing for the day. But if you only get the evenings and weekends with your child as it is, and you're having fun, why not do it for a bit longer, why not make it an hour at least, without ME having to ask? Because he just gets lazy. And he'll get sincerely offended and defensive if I dare to say it, because he actually believes he does a lot for us, and then it'll become all about me and how it's never enough for ME etc. And yes, I do acknowledge that he does a lot for us financially, and I tell him I appreciate it - but I also tell him, always gently and in a friendly tone, that DS, at his age, doesn't care that he earns the money, he cares about having his dad play with him and do fun things. DH's response to that is always the defensive, huffy, 'well, I DO spend time with him, wth, you're always complaining yakkity shmakkity...'
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:28 AM
 
Location: San Marcos, TX
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Originally Posted by Irish Eyes View Post
I don't think it sounds like you don't enjoy being a stay at home Mom. It sounds like you want your husband to WANT to be around his own child. I would be disappointed beyond words if I had to deal with what you are dealing with in terms of his attitude. And I think it's important for each parent to be alone with their children more than for just giving the other parent a break. It strengthens the parent child relationship and puts both adults on equal ground with them.
YES to this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnaNomus View Post
I am a single mom. I do everything by myself because I HAVE to. However, if I had a husband, I would expect him to pull his weight. I don't feel like the OP is being spoiled or whiny at all. I do think she may be mismanaging her time and wearing herself out unnecessarily. But I think it's reasonable to ask that your husband do more than pay bills and play video games.
And to this!

I was a single mom with my firstborn, for the first couple of years from birth forward with a bit of help from my mother but ONLY in the very early months, and yeah it was hard but there is a flip side to that. Bonus: No one to please but me and the kid. If the house was a mess, so what, as long as it was sanitary. If I didn't exactly get back to my pre-pregnancy figure, no one to complain about that. So there was some freedom in it as well, I can't lie.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tiffjoy View Post
I'm so sorry, it just boggles my mind that women advocate just putting up with this. I barely go shopping either, but my DH isn't trotting off to do his own thing. We are both equally busy working and parenting. It isn't all the mom's job to raise the kids.

My DH is not perfect (neither am I!) but he knows being a dad is more than a word. It's actions and time and commitment and self sacrifice. If he couldn't handle being a real father, not just a father in name and monetary support, then counseling wouldn't be an optional thing. It would be a mandatory we are doing this to prevent me from leaving you thing. This isn't healthy, what you or the OP have described. Fathers should spend time with their children from day one, not "later."

It sounds like the OP isn't the perfect wife. Shocker. Neither am I. She probably has room for improvement. So do many of us, I'd guess, both husbands and wives. But to me, the huge flag is the way he talks to her and his resistance to spending any time with his own child. Those things don't just go away on their own. An adult doesn't outgrow those attitudes and that kind of disinterest and selfishness.

OP, I would seek out a counselor at least for yourself if DH won't go. Try to get some perspective and outside opinions from a balanced professional.
And yes, especially, to this. I don't think it's about how the OP can get a break. We all know she can hire someone if she really needs to, that's not the issue. The issue is, a father should WANT TO SPEND TIME with his kid! It's not a nursing baby who doesn't do anything but nurse, cry, sleep, and poop. A 3 year old is plenty old enough for Dad to play with and bond with and he shouldn't have to be cajoled or guilted into doing it. I agree, counseling is in order and if he won't go, OP needs to maybe go on her own.

My ex was a lot like this. Didn't want any kind of lifestyle change with a wife and two kids. Expected to just do what he wanted when he wanted, really, and resented any "intrusion" into his activities (video games)... but even though he was pretty awful he still voluntarily took the kids on a bike ride or for a walk a couple times a week, not to give me a break but to be with the kids. He's always been a "minimalist" father but there should be some natural desire there even at the minimal level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilCookie View Post
The thing is, he sincerely believes that the stuff he already does qualifies him as a fantastic father and that he's already sacrificing so much of his time and effort for us. Because, basically, if it wasn't for DS, he'd buy himself a nicer car, he'd sleep in till 1 pm on weekends like he used to and spend the rest of the time chilling out - so to him, getting up at 10 or 11 and going out somewhere for a family-friendly activity is already a big departure from what he'd prefer to be doing - but because he does it, in his mind it's 'for us' and it makes him a great father. It's not the quality of the time so much as quantity - so if he tosses DS for 10 minutes and makes him laugh, he feels good and to him, he's done his 'good father' thing for the day. But if you only get the evenings and weekends with your child as it is, and you're having fun, why not do it for a bit longer, why not make it an hour at least, without ME having to ask? Because he just gets lazy. And he'll get sincerely offended and defensive if I dare to say it, because he actually believes he does a lot for us, and then it'll become all about me and how it's never enough for ME etc. And yes, I do acknowledge that he does a lot for us financially, and I tell him I appreciate it - but I also tell him, always gently and in a friendly tone, that DS, at his age, doesn't care that he earns the money, he cares about having his dad play with him and do fun things. DH's response to that is always the defensive, huffy, 'well, I DO spend time with him, wth, you're always complaining yakkity shmakkity...'
Was this an accidental pregnancy, if I may ask? Because it sounds like he views having a kid as an obligation that is a burden and thinks that since he is meeting the obligation (financially) that's enough, and is not finding the joy in being a parent. My father had that view, and saw himself as a great dad because he had 2 ex-wives, and five kids between the two, and never missed a single child support check. To him, that was "father enough".

I had my firstborn young and unmarried, it was certainly not a planned thing, but at some point I had to embrace the idea and not spend all my time thinking of what I could have been doing instead of being a mom. I mean, if I hadn't had him young, then married and had another, I could have had a totally different life and I wouldn't be 41 trying to finish my first Bachelor's degree, but I could never dwell on that and let it build resentment for my kids, which is what sounds like might be going on here.

I don't know how to get your husband to embrace fatherhood, I am sorry.
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