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Yes, especially the sleeping thing, a child should have a bed time and learn to go to sleep by himself, rituals are lovely, keep the reading/cuddling time, but then it's lights out, and the parent leaves. A child has to learn to be alone and self soothe, and self entertain. After bedtime, both parents can relax and spend some time together, save the dishes for tomorrow.
I think she sees this as anyone would a job, she wants to do everything she can because she wants to do a good job, but the job of a SAHM isn't to be at a child's beck and call, she's not the child's servant, or full time entertainer either. The child needs to be bored sometimes, and learn to entertain himself while you are busy with housework. Learning independence is part of growing up, holding him back from that isn't helping him.
I still stand by my feelings about her spouses parenting, I don't care if other women would think she has it great, being a parent never stops at providing an income, so that when you get home you just get to decide how much care you feel like giving your child, he's a parent who should be there for his son. I grew up in a very traditional environment, with a SAHM, when my father came home from work he got exactly 1 hour after work, before dinner to nap, and I wasn't to bother him, but after that, he was there for me all night, he was often the one to put me to bed. Any parent who is there needs to be a PARENT, children need that, it hurts them to be passed off because dad's bored and wants to play video games. Actually my dad and I usually helped my mom clean up after dinner, we did it together, and it was fun, I see now that my parents probably enjoyed getting it done fast and early so they could relax after putting me to bed.
The father should not be so uncomfortable spending time alone with the child, why can't he go to the park alone with him? A father should know everything about how to take care their child, and be able to do it alone if he needed to. The sleeping in on weekends after playing video games all night, no way. I would simply not allow it, they are partners, she's not his employee. Ignore his whining and tell him to grow up, he's a parent too, and she has also been working all week, and from what I have read been getting up earlier than him all week, they should trade off one weekend day each if sleeping in is that important to the both, and as the child gets older he can get up on his own and make his own cereal.
You might want to tell you husband you need help, and if you can get in the bath and relax a bit while he puts the kid to bed, you'd be more interested in sex, that might inspire him. It seems like this father isn't comfortable being alone with his child, he has to learn to get over that for his, and the child's sake.
I think some other posters have hit upon some good points. First, it sounds like EC's father-in-law was not very involved, so her husband may have no idea what to do or even why he should. Your father modeled an involved, loving paternal presence, so for you that dynamic feels natural and right. It's not something all men spontaneously know or feel, especially with babies and very young children. Second, this may be something that the OP's husband just overcomes with time, for the reason before. EC mentioned rough-housing, but that doesn't really apply to a baby or little toddler. As the baby becomes a boy, the enjoyable "boy stuff" that dads and sons like to do together may just come naturally. I wonder if EC, in all her well-meaning (but probably micromanaging) ways, is trying to arrange playdates between dad and son, rather than allowing them to discover one another. Third, I think the marital issues are playing a big part in EC's husband's withdrawal from the family. Working on that first (hmm, maybe I should have planned this better) may help tremendously.
So when you were a sahm, your husband never spent time alone with the kids on the weekend or got up with them? How about you, when you worked and he stayed home, did you also expect him to keep taking care of the kids and not bother you when you were home and on weekends? Did you sleep in every weekend and expect him to get up?
I do consider it's my duty to let my husband relax at home - and I do. He does no chores, comes home to a reasonably clean house and home-cooked meals, laundry done, etc. Parenting, however, being a father - that I don't think should be completely taken off the duty list just because I stay home, or restricted to paying the bills, just as it wouldn't for a working mother or for both working parents. I'm with my son all day - when otherwise we would be paying a childcare provider to do it; but when we're both home, there's no reason for the father to not spend time with him.
When I was a SAHM, my husband DID spend some time with his kids, yes. However, and I'm being totally honest here....my children were taught WELL. If their father had been working all day and they got wound up and wanted to jump all over daddy, or otherwise drive him crazy, I was the "interceder". I was the one who took into consideration that look on his face that said, "OMG, just give me a MINUTE!" He was a great father, but he did need his time.
Did he get up on the weekends with them? Oh God no! Never! I do mean....N-E-V-E-R! You know what though? I was a mother. I had children to get up with in the morning. Hey, I knew this the day before! We raised 4 children and I'll bet he got up with them a grand total of 5 times...ever. He did not do well at this and I just accepted it. I made damn sure that I was in bed at a decent hour, every single night though, because I knew that it was something I was going to have to do...get up with them.
My alone time? That was spent in the garden working or going grocery shopping at a time when he was home. That was my alone time, unless I was off earning some money somewhere. When I only had one child still, it was no big deal to take him shopping with me. I simply taught him excellent manners and expected him to display them when we went shopping. When the first 2 were little, I was an incurable softball junkie. They went with me to the park and either entertained themselves on toys or with other kids.
Because my kids were taught to be respectful of their father and understand that "Daddy has been working hard all day and is very tired...just give him a little bit to relax.", when he was finally showered,unwound and relaxed...and had a good hot dinner in him, they were free to love on him. Sometimes he'd play with them, but on work days...he'd generally just snuggle with them in his chair or on the couch.
We were not our children's source of entertainment, nor were we their toys. We were their parents. That's not saying that we never played with them...but more often than not, we just loved on them, were their providers and their teachers. Now that they're older...we're their friends.
Addition: You asked if I expected him to continue to take care of the kids when I worked and he was home. Yes! I absolutely did! When I got home from work, the last thing I wanted was someone crawling all over and in my FACE, until I'd had a chance to deprogram. My role was just like his..."Get out of my face and let me get into HOME mode! Here! Quick hugs. I love you...now gimme a minute!" On the weekends, I had catch up to do. It's what working mothers do! Again....we were not our children's entertainers or toys. We were parents who had responsibilities, chores and jobs. Once they got older and in sports/extra-curricular activities, we also became taxis!
I think some other posters have hit upon some good points. First, it sounds like EC's father-in-law was not very involved, so her husband may have no idea what to do or even why he should. Your father modeled an involved, loving paternal presence, so for you that dynamic feels natural and right. It's not something all men spontaneously know or feel, especially with babies and very young children. Second, this may be something that the OP's husband just overcomes with time, for the reason before. EC mentioned rough-housing, but that doesn't really apply to a baby or little toddler. As the baby becomes a boy, the enjoyable "boy stuff" that dads and sons like to do together may just come naturally. I wonder if EC, in all her well-meaning (but probably micromanaging) ways, is trying to arrange playdates between dad and son, rather than allowing them to discover one another. Third, I think the marital issues are playing a big part in EC's husband's withdrawal from the family. Working on that first (hmm, maybe I should have planned this better) may help tremendously.
Fantastic post Julia! You're absolutely right...I think. The thing of it is, most men do not PLAY with babies. When they turn into boys and young men, they are much more "in their comfort zones".
Fantastic post Julia! You're absolutely right...I think. The thing of it is, most men do not PLAY with babies. When they turn into boys and young men, they are much more "in their comfort zones".
They don't have to play with babies, but if they are their children they do have to take care of them, and be available to them, even if it's scary at first and they feel uncomfortable. Not all women are natural mothers either, but women push through that because they have to, and fathers have to also, that's part of being a parent. Letting men who chose to have children off the hook for caring for those children is not acceptable.
He doesn't have to play with the child, he just has to be there. It's not like my father was expected to play dress up with me, my mother didn't play with me either. I was happy just to sit and watch him work with his tools, he would just talk to me, or talk about what he was doing, I might even have a toy and just play at his feet, I just needed to know he wanted me around. He would tell me stories about the navy, I was happy to hear them even if I didn't know what the heck he was talking about.
Maybe mom is micromanaging their time together, but he should learn all the basic care duties and be expected to do them at least some of the time, that's not negotiable, this will lead to much greater comfort about being alone with his son, chances are he will soon learn to love it, and he should be expected to spend time with the child, what they do together should be his choice, if it's watching the game, let it go, the child will still feel loved just sitting there learning about dad's game. If he gets bored and picks up a toy that's fine too, mom shouldn't rush in and try to save the child from boredom, or complain that dad isn't doing it right, children just want to be with their parents, they should have friends to PLAY with.
People may say I have expectations, and they are right, parents, both mothers and fathers are expected to care for their children, not pass them off all the time and nothing less is acceptable for a child's well being. Maybe he needs to learn more about parenting, making money doesn't mean your done.
Then he's off every night and all weekend. Since he's home and that's time off, right?. I guess you could add in his lunch hour, commute and whatever downtime he has at work. But scorekeeping doesn't really solve any problems.
Then she's off 100% of the time so what's she complaining about? Problem solved.
It's not score keeping. It's making sure relationships are mutually beneficial. If they are not, they disintegrate (as this one appears to be in the process of. My prediction is the divorce is final within 3 years.). Working all day and coming home to chores and childcare is different than being home all day. As a working parent, I much preferred my days off to my work days for very good reason. They were a lot less work and I had a lot more time to get things done. Unless you've actually been a working parent, it's hard to imagine what it's like but working parents have vacations, holidays and weekends to experience what a SAHP does (admittedly, for the working parent those days are actually busier than a SAHP's days but we get the drift.).
The problem is he's coming home tired from working and commuting to a demanding wife. That's an issue. His need for decompression time is not being met and he's balking at the demands being placed upon him after working all day to support her at home.
I really think the issue is they have different expectations and are, obviously, not talking about them. The time he is home is limited and needs to be divvied up. There's dad time (not really needed given the age of the child in question), husband time, family time and me time. Unlike the SAHM, he doesn't get me time during nap time except on the weekends and that, probably, should be couple time as well as after bed time for the toddler should be. He doesn't get to go for walks with the baby in the stroller during the day, he can't go out to lunch (you presume much when you talk about a lunch "hour". Most people do not get an hour for lunch. I've never worked a job where I got more than half an hour which is, barely, time to walk to the cafeteria and eat.) with the girls or put the baby in the day care at the gym and work out. She has a lot more options for me time than he does.
The problem is this is being posed as demands. Demands on the person who already has the most demands on them in the relationship (Do not underestimate the pressure of being the primary breadwinner. That is a heavy burden to bear.). It needs to be presented a different way. Dad should not be used as a baby sitter. Given the age of the child, family time is more in order when dad is home. There is no reason for dad to provide child care for an hour to an hour and half a night while mom does whatever. Just spend time as a family. Seriously, if I worked all day and came home to a dh who expected me to take over child care when I came home, I'd tell him to get a damned job.
Let dad spend time with his family when he's home during the evenings (it's mom who appears to be keeping score here BTW. She's rating his parenting ability using time doing the things SHE's decided he should do. Apparently, he's not adult enough, in her eyes, to decide what he should do on his own. I'd rebel too if my spouse did this to me. If you're old enough to be a parent, you're old enough to have the right to decide how you parent.). Weekends are another issue. Here they're battling over who gets to sleep in (makes me think we're dealing with a teenaged couple here). If this is a battle ground, split it. One sleeps in one day and one sleeps in the other. Just make an agreement.
IMO, she's treating dad like a child and I'd expect him to rebel. He is the other adult in this relationship and he has the right to parent how he sees fit. Why she thinks he has to do it her way is an issue that needs to be addressed before it damages the relationship if it hasn't already. Whether or not she likes his way of parenting is irrelevent to the fact that he has the right to parent the way he sees fit. She's trying to control this and wondering why he's getting angry. Most of us would if our spouse did this to us.
She needs to accept that he is an adult and has the right to decide how he parents. If he chooses to be a hands off parent, that is his choice. This is not her call. If she deosn't quit treating him like a child she has to tell what to do, she may find herself a single working mom....
Edited to add: One of the things I loved about being a working mom was that it forced dh to be the parent in charge for a certain amount of time per day. It forced him to be more involved. *I* liked that. I don't know if he did but I did. If that's what she's really after, maybe it's time to get a job.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 02-27-2013 at 04:41 PM..
If your wife works full-time too (regardless of what she makes), where is the "heroism" in doing your share of household and childcare-related work? And have you ever considered that your wife's monitor-related trepidations have to do with the guilt imposed on the modern mother who is supposed to catch her child's every breath now?.
1. Who the hell said anything about heroics? It's just WHAT YOU DO. It kills me when things like "Teen found 3000 dollars on the street and returned it! Wow!" NO. That is not news! That is WHAT YOU DO.
2. My wife's monitor-related anything has 100% to do with the fact that she is a giant control freak (she readily admits that is why). Her guilt is why she doesn't discipline him.
3. My share of household chores? We don't keep score here, but just so YOU know, I do all the cooking (in fact, my bok choy is steaming right now and then I will get to the rest of the Thai meal my wife requested I make), most of the cleaning, most of the errand running, all the repairs/maintenance (hell, my wife didn't even know we got the roof fixed last week...I told her as a btw), all of the decorating/furnishing, all of the social/trip planning, all of the big dog washing/vet trips, etc. She does the bills, the laundry, the trash, and the boy's morning and night routine.
The chores are heavily skewed onto my back, but that's not the point. In a partnership, you pick up the slack wherever you can, and I think her time with the boy is too valuable (for both of them) for her to be spending her free time resealing the granite countertops or oiling the mahogany table. I get many afternoons alone with him, so I don't mind doing it.
Fantastic post Julia! You're absolutely right...I think. The thing of it is, most men do not PLAY with babies. When they turn into boys and young men, they are much more "in their comfort zones".
Um, I have heard this chestnut before, but on what planet does ANYONE think it's fun to play with a baby all day?
I don't think it's fun to play with a baby all day, but I don't use that as an excuse not to spend time with my child.
Do men actually think it's FUN for women to play onsie twosie let's make a poosie all day? Is that how they justify it to themselves?
Um, I have heard this chestnut before, but on what planet does ANYONE think it's fun to play with a baby all day?
I don't think it's fun to play with a baby all day, but I don't use that as an excuse not to spend time with my child.
Do men actually think it's FUN for women to play onsie twosie let's make a poosie all day? Is that how they justify it to themselves?
On what planet is it necessary to play with a baby all day? If one is playing with the baby all day, that is by choice and not even good for baby. Baby needs time to just explore his body and his environment. All you NEED to do is provide a safe place for baby. There is no need to play onsie, twosie let's make poosie all day. (What the heck is poosie? Poop?) Someone who is playing with the baby all day is making work for themselves and they have no one to blame but themselves.
However, this does explain how kids get to school and think they should be entertained all day....
Oh darn! I stated I wouldn't post again! and directly to the Op I shall not. She will figure out what works best for her family, eventually!
But a few posts have really inspired me in their wisdom and something slightly ironic occurred today moments after I came home from work! When I was a SAHM, especially in the earlier yrs(about 8-11 yrs ago) I was a nut case! I was sorely depressed(couldn't find a job). And as the assertive, aggressive, figurer, planner, do-everything-er of the household-er I was livid at my husband in many areas but especially as it concerned discipline, or a lack thereof. We went thru the song and dance of his disciplining his son(my only one at the time) ad nauseum, he just did not want to get involved with this little demon child and his rebellious ways We fought....so much, because I would never... shut up!!! (afterall, he's the dad and this is his son and his son should reverence his dad) but I also went thru extreme burnout and needing air for the sake of my sanity--which was limited during the week as my husband is a truck driver.
Wow have we come a long way! Thru the many tears and trials of being a young couple and going thru the motions, the oldest child is away at school and now--with my youngest, I don't even have to ask or complain, my husband, as evidenced yet again this afternoon is a different man! It didn't come without banging my head against the wall and having to learn---both he and I, what will not work! It didn't come without the grace of God and heeding His wisdom and actually caring enough to hear His wisdom---cause our way wasn't working but cooperation did eventually occur on both our parts! Here's the thing...and I respect non-believers for totally not getting this......in my prayer time, God never convicted my heart about what my husband was doing......or not doing .......NEVER!!!
Last edited by Tell-the-Truth; 02-27-2013 at 05:33 PM..
I feel just a tad strange admitting that I really did thoroughly enjoy time with my children when they were newborns and toddlers. It wasn't until they hit the teenage years that the feeling has faded, but only when they're being truly obnoxious, which isn't all that often. My husband has also always enjoyed spending time with them. He'd come home for lunch when they were littles just to see them and make a beeline for them as soon as he walked in the door from work. Even today, he unwinds from his day by taking the boys out to toss around a football before dinner.
I don't understand all this criticism being lobbed at the OP. She and her husband are having a rough time right now, and she needed to vent. Haven't we all been there at one time or another? And Lord knows there's room for improvement in the running of my household as there probably is in everyone else's, too. So let's give her a break, shall we, and acknowledge that we're all a work in progress and wish her family the best. She seems a pretty great gal.
Last edited by randomparent; 02-27-2013 at 05:43 PM..
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We raised 4 children and I'll bet he got up with them a grand total of 5 times...ever. He did not do well at this and I just accepted it. I made damn sure that I was in bed at a decent hour, every single night though, because I knew that it was something I was going to have to do...get up with them. 
Again....we were not our children's entertainers or toys. We were parents who had responsibilities, chores and jobs. Once they got older and in sports/extra-curricular activities, we also became taxis! 
, my husband, as evidenced yet again this afternoon is a different man! It didn't come without banging my head against the wall and having to learn---both he and I, what will not work! It didn't come without the grace of God and heeding His wisdom and actually caring enough to hear His wisdom---cause our way wasn't working
but cooperation did eventually occur on both our parts! Here's the thing...and I respect non-believers for totally not getting this......in my prayer time, God never convicted my heart about what my husband was doing......or not doing .......NEVER!!!
