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Well we can just agree to disagree on this one. I absolutely don't agree with you here.
My dad taught me some important lessons too. Like how important it is to actually be there for your kids, not just financially but in every sense of the word. And he also taught me that it doesn't matter how much money you make or how hard you work or how busy are - you can find the time and energy for the things that are really important to you, like your kids - and everything else is just an excuse. My parents had a difficult time. My dad took our family through two immigrations to provide a better life for us, both to countries where they didn't speak the language, their skills and education weren't properly accredited, we struggled financially for a long time. He too worked two jobs for almost five years, having a master's degree he started off washing windows at a restaurant and working as a nursing home aide on weekends, studying the language and looking for jobs in the meantime, even later when he got a full-time job in his field he kept the nursing home job because we needed the money. He didn't have a day off in about five years. Yes, I didn't see much of him during that time - because he was working. BUT, when he wasn't working - he spend every free second with us. I would wait by the window each night for him to come home, and would run over as soon as he stepped through the door - and never once did he brush me off because he was tired.
There's a gigantic difference between a parent who is physically unable to be there because they are providing for their kids - whether they are deployed, work long hours, travel a lot, etc., and between a parent who has the time to spend about 7-8 hours a night playing video games and reading reddit, has regular work hours and weekends, yet complains when he's asked to give up a few hours to spend with his child. HUGE difference. You're lumping these together. It's a question of priorities, because people make time for what's important to them. If you have two deployed parents, neither of them is going to be able to be physically present for their kids, no matter how much they want to. However, when you have two white-collar dads working the same hours, why can one come home and take over with the kids, while the other gets home and heads to play games? And please don't give me the 'he's depressed' line again.
On the first page of this thread you wondered if your parents had helped you too much with the baby.
You need to quit comparing your husband to your dad and other fathers who have seen around you. Your husband isn't them. You aren't your mother or other married women in your life. Both of you are your own unique people and the relationships you see around you are going to be different. Even those lovely couples you seem to know may be living a different life behind closed doors.
Be grateful that your husband is providing for the family financially right now. Give him a break with making lists and telling him exactly what needs to be done and when. Take your son grocery shopping and errand running during the day and skip the gym once in awhile and use that time the husband is watching the boy to go have fun with friends, enjoy a show, have some coffee. Something. Life is too short to be racking up points in the "Who does more in this relationship" game.
You guys are at the 7 year itch mark. Take a step back and just enjoy each other without resentment for the things one another DOESN'T do and be thankful for the things that one another DOES do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilCookie
None; he was the first of his friends to have kids, aside from one long-distance friend. I was the first of my friends to have a baby too, but like you said, I had my dad as well as multiple friends of the family I've observed while growing up, though I've seen both examples of great and not-so-great fathers there.
I'd love it if he had a 'dad friend' here, but the truth is he isn't awfully social, he interacts fine with coworkers but hasn't really made friends in the time that we've lived here; I've tried introducing him to some of the husbands of moms I've met here, but he's not particularly interested in making friends, like he'll make small talk with them at a party but that's as far as it goes, he doesn't like going to these in the first place and he definitely won't put forth the initiative to meet up on his own. This has also kind of hindered my ability to make a good friend network, because while I've tried putting myself out there to meet other moms (not easy for me as I'm extremely shy), most of these other families become family friends with each other, where the husbands are friends as well as the wives and they do stuff together, and we don't really have that. Again, he's got a similarly selfish attitude to friendship that didn't used to bother me as much but does now - he resents sacrificing any time or energy for anyone else, so suggesting something like a picnic or dinner party generates groans and huffs, and he's extremely resistant to doing a favor for anyone or helping anyone else out if it inconveniences him at the slightest. He's had an acquaintance on his side ask for help with a move and refused, and was actually indignant that the guy had the nerve to ask him. He's definitely much better when it comes to family - both his mom and my parents - but only to an extent, beyond that I can always sense a tension under the surface when he feels he should do something he doesn't want to. What's missing for him is the desire to just do something nice for someone, just because, it's like he's lacking a certain sense of empathy, and I believe it's because he's been so spoiled and fussed over by his mom and grandma as a kid, his mom still babies him to an unbelievable extent whenever she can, and he's never been taught that sometimes you sacrifice for someone else's good, that it's not always all about you.
Whew...writing this out, I realize I've never even concretely thought it out before, it's just something I've been noticing and it's been floating around in my head; I've sort of made my peace with it and accepted that's the way he is, but I used to think it wouldn't spill over into his relationship with us - and now I'm realizing a person can't be one way in one sphere of his life and different in another...
Looked up the definition of parenting.
None of them had any reference to financing someone's existence.
Most of them went something like this:
The rearing of a child or children, especially the care, love, and guidance given by a parent.
Attempts to act like merely throwing money at something is the same as caring about it will fall flat on its face for most caring, compassionate adults engaged in this conversation.
There is no reason for a parent who has the time and presence to spend with their children to shirk that duty - least of all because they feel entitled to because of a paycheck.
I think any reasonable person finds that laughable on its face.
I know too many rich kids (my wife and her siblings included) whose parents were too busy making money (they gave it to their kids - even today) whose lives were changed for the worse because what they really needed was the presence, attentiveness, and love that was simply not there. All the money they got then and receive now makes zero difference. Interestingly, like Ivory, they make excuses for the neglectful parent...while inside and through their actions, you can see their hurt.
The same holds true for childless couples where one spouse makes more money than the other. Is it good custodianship of a relationship to act like the higher earning of the two should have fewer responsibilities in the home? Or none at all if they are the sole earner?
This "hands off, I've done my job" and keeping score attitude is not what loving families are made of.
I'd hate to see what would happen in my household if I used my higher income status to try to get out of my share of the responsibilities at home, my man would rightly have some issues with that since we went into this relationship, and maintain it as a partnership, not a dictatorship based on financial contribution.
None; he was the first of his friends to have kids, aside from one long-distance friend. I was the first of my friends to have a baby too, but like you said, I had my dad as well as multiple friends of the family I've observed while growing up, though I've seen both examples of great and not-so-great fathers there.
I'd love it if he had a 'dad friend' here, but the truth is he isn't awfully social, he interacts fine with coworkers but hasn't really made friends in the time that we've lived here; I've tried introducing him to some of the husbands of moms I've met here, but he's not particularly interested in making friends, like he'll make small talk with them at a party but that's as far as it goes, he doesn't like going to these in the first place and he definitely won't put forth the initiative to meet up on his own. This has also kind of hindered my ability to make a good friend network, because while I've tried putting myself out there to meet other moms (not easy for me as I'm extremely shy), most of these other families become family friends with each other, where the husbands are friends as well as the wives and they do stuff together, and we don't really have that. Again, he's got a similarly selfish attitude to friendship that didn't used to bother me as much but does now - he resents sacrificing any time or energy for anyone else, so suggesting something like a picnic or dinner party generates groans and huffs, and he's extremely resistant to doing a favor for anyone or helping anyone else out if it inconveniences him at the slightest. He's had an acquaintance on his side ask for help with a move and refused, and was actually indignant that the guy had the nerve to ask him. He's definitely much better when it comes to family - both his mom and my parents - but only to an extent, beyond that I can always sense a tension under the surface when he feels he should do something he doesn't want to. What's missing for him is the desire to just do something nice for someone, just because, it's like he's lacking a certain sense of empathy, and I believe it's because he's been so spoiled and fussed over by his mom and grandma as a kid, his mom still babies him to an unbelievable extent whenever she can, and he's never been taught that sometimes you sacrifice for someone else's good, that it's not always all about you.
Whew...writing this out, I realize I've never even concretely thought it out before, it's just something I've been noticing and it's been floating around in my head; I've sort of made my peace with it and accepted that's the way he is, but I used to think it wouldn't spill over into his relationship with us - and now I'm realizing a person can't be one way in one sphere of his life and different in another...
Sometimes, my friend....we fall in love with someone and certain harsh aspects of their characters are not terribly clear. We think those things will pass, or they'll get better. Sometimes, they just don't. I hope you two will get some counselling. Seriously, I believe you're going to need some, in order to make this marriage last. I believe that statement with all of my heart. Now that you have a little one and he's having to "share" you, he is not doing well. Not only is this bad for you, but it could also end up very bad for you...if/when your son gets a little older and your husband doesn't want to share your son with YOU.
Perhaps, yes...it is a lack of empathy. When you raise a child to think nothing of anyone but themselves and everyone pampers and spoils them....empathy does not come easily. Oh man, I sure hope his personality is something that can be helped with counselling.
Sometimes, my friend....we fall in love with someone and certain harsh aspects of their characters are not terribly clear. We think those things will pass, or they'll get better. Sometimes, they just don't. I hope you two will get some counselling. Seriously, I believe you're going to need some, in order to make this marriage last. I believe that statement with all of my heart. Now that you have a little one and he's having to "share" you, he is not doing well. Not only is this bad for you, but it could also end up very bad for you...if/when your son gets a little older and your husband doesn't want to share your son with YOU.
Perhaps, yes...it is a lack of empathy. When you raise a child to think nothing of anyone but themselves and everyone pampers and spoils them....empathy does not come easily. Oh man, I sure hope his personality is something that can be helped with counselling.
And that it's not something the OP is unwittingly encouraging in her own son. Both by her seeming willingness to cater to him but in her modeling that it is acceptable behavior in an adult relationship.
That's doing the bare minimum and for most that's not good enough. Insulted military et al or not.
You can't say that without personal information on the situation.
I have seen many a father who did nothing but provide for his wife and kids when the kids were small who was a great dad. The fact this father is providing his wife at home for his child is something. A very big something.
As I said, I don't recall my dad ever changing a diaper or helping us with homework but I wouldn't trade him for any other dad in the world. It never dawned on me to question why dad spent the time he was home tinkering in the garage because mom never whined about it. That was just what dad did. As we got older, we'd walk out to see what he was doing. He was more than happy to share his hobbies with us. Perhaps this father will too when his kids are older. I have a dss who bonds with his boys through video games and there's nothing wrong with that.
Give the man a chance.
You don't know the dynamics here. Was having children even his idea? Or was it something she wanted and he consented to? Was her SAH his idea? Her idea? or their idea? Perhaps he thinks he is giving a lot just allowing her to SAH. Perhaps it's not what he wants. Perhaps he wasn't ready for kids but she wanted them. I don't know. The OP hasn't said. You're hanging this man based on what she says. Let me remind you that there are three sides to every story. Her side, his side and the truth. You can bet she's painting herself in the best light and him in the worst. I wonder what he would say. I wonder if she would even let him see what she posted here?
As I've said over and over, I've seen plenty of men who were hands off dads when the kids were little who turned out to be great dads so I'm not willing to write this guy off because he doesn't want to come home to a second shift of diaper duty. It is, however, clear that his wife does not appreciate that he supports their family. That's nothing to her. HER contribution is the big one. We have, at least, one over inflated ego with a sense of entitlement here, perhaps two. We don't know because we have not heard from him.
You can't say that without personal information on the situation.
I have seen many a father who did nothing but provide for his wife and kids when the kids were small who was a great dad. The fact this father is providing his wife at home for his child is something. A very big something.
As I said, I don't recall my dad ever changing a diaper or helping us with homework but I wouldn't trade him for any other dad in the world. It never dawned on me to question why dad spent the time he was home tinkering in the garage because mom never whined about it. That was just what dad did. As we got older, we'd walk out to see what he was doing. He was more than happy to share his hobbies with us. Perhaps this father will too when his kids are older. I have a dss who bonds with his boys through video games and there's nothing wrong with that.
Give the man a chance.
You don't know the dynamics here. Was having children even his idea? Or was it something she wanted and he consented to? Was her SAH his idea? Her idea? or their idea? Perhaps he thinks he is giving a lot just allowing her to SAH. Perhaps it's not what he wants. Perhaps he wasn't ready for kids but she wanted them. I don't know. The OP hasn't said. You're hanging this man based on what she says. Let me remind you that there are three sides to every story. Her side, his side and the truth. You can bet she's painting herself in the best light and him in the worst. I wonder what he would say. I wonder if she would even let him see what she posted here?
As I've said over and over, I've seen plenty of men who were hands off dads when the kids were little who turned out to be great dads so I'm not willing to write this guy off because he doesn't want to come home to a second shift of diaper duty. It is, however, clear that his wife does not appreciate that he supports their family. That's nothing to her. HER contribution is the big one. We have, at least, one over inflated ego with a sense of entitlement here, perhaps two. We don't know because we have not heard from him.
Why do you think in terms of "his job" and "her job?" It makes more sense to think of it in hours. If he works 8 hours/day and takes an hour for lunch, and she is at home with the kid that whole time, and he maybe takes a nap, then at 5 pm, they are even. At 5 pm, or whenever he gets home, all child care should be split evenly.
My dad contributed very little to caring for my sibling and I and when we were kids. I don't have the fond memories that you do. I remember being afraid that something would happen to my mom, and he wouldn't know how to take care of us.
The mind boggles every time you post that his only job is making money. If you were a man, I'd think you were a male chauvinist. The fact that you are a woman is worse.
Why do you think in terms of "his job" and "her job?" It makes more sense to think of it in hours. If he works 8 hours/day and takes an hour for lunch, and she is at home with the kid that whole time, and he maybe takes a nap, then at 5 pm, they are even. At 5 pm, or whenever he gets home, all child care should be split evenly.
My dad contributed very little to caring for my sibling and I and when we were kids. I don't have the fond memories that you do. I remember being afraid that something would happen to my mom, and he wouldn't know how to take care of us.
The mind boggles every time you post that his only job is making money. If you were a man, I'd think you were a male chauvinist. The fact that you are a woman is worse.
I think in percents. He does 100% of the wage earning (his part and hers as she is just as responsible for the financial support of their children as he is.). What does she do 100% of?
I never worried about something happening to my mom. I don't know why, I just didn't (maybe it's because she was a working mom and I knew that others could take care of me too. I had an extended network of people I trusted.). She died when my youngest brother was 8. Then we saw another side of dad. Dad did what needed to be done. That's what dad did. He took care of things so we didn't have to worry. I have to say I was impressed with the man. In my garage tucked back in the corner is a hideous chrome plated ashtray stand (looks like barbells standing on end) that he made out of trash he picked up. Sometimes I go out and look at it just to remember him. I miss him.
I believe people choose roles in life and you don't choose one and then cry foul. I chose equal parenting with my dh and signed up for equal wage earning too. The op has handed 100% of the wage earning over to her dh (her part and his as she is also responsible for supporting their child) and then balks when he doen't come home and welcome a second shift. I believe relationshps should go both ways. If they don't they don't last. He does 100% of the wage earning. What does she do for him for taking on her part of the financial responsiblity for their child? Oh, I know....whine about what he doesn't do....leave him lists, like he's an idiot who can't figure out how to change a diaper....The OP needs a pair of big girl panties.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 03-17-2013 at 07:58 PM..
I think in percents. He does 100% of the wage earning (his part and hers as she is just as responsible for the financial support of their children as he is.). What does she do 100% of?
So using that thought process, if he won the lottery or were otherwise independently wealthy he could sit on his rear end all day doing nothing and still be a good parent?
I think in percents. He does 100% of the wage earning (his part and hers as she is just as responsible for the financial support of their children as he is.). What does she do 100% of?
It sounds like she does 100% of the laundry, cooking, cleaning... With your mind set, it is no wonder you chose to work full time. It is the only way you can justify having your husband lift a finger at home.
ETA Do you base who does what parenting and housework on how much money you and your husband earn? I mean, I bring home a percentage of what my husband does. Does that mean I should be doing more parenting? According to your logic it does.
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