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As for "judging good and bad kids"... all of these girls were members of my daughter's youth group at church and the mom was a very active member of our church.
I miss that one! That made me laugh so hard. I was the darling of all the priests and nuns, all the Moms... OY. If they only knew.
Interesting article, I found the following extremely troubling and pertinent to this thread:
Quote:
..One of the Steubenville witnesses Evan Westlake testified that he didn’t think what he was seeing was rape, saying: “It wasn’t violent. I didn’t know exactly what rape was. I always pictured it as forcing yourself on someone.”
My son is 23 now and has always treated everyone respectfully, even me, his mother (!). When I saw the video on youtube of the Steubenville rape, I was aghast that any young men could be that incredibly callous, joking about "how raped" she was and how she was "deader than (fill in the blank, there were many awful comparisons, like OJ's ex-wife, etc. - the girl obviously was suffering from alcohol poisoning and should have been in the hospital, not being joked about how she was "as dry as the sun.") and glad my son didn't turn out like that. But before he left for college, I did talk to him about how it was not ok to have sex with a new partner for the first time if she was drunk, even if she wanted to, because an inebriated person is legally incapable of giving consent, and if she felt differently about what happened the next day, he could be in big trouble. Fortunately, he has always seemed to have one serious girlfriend for a long period of time and not be the screw-around type, but I still felt he needed to know that. I told him when the girl was sober later, then no problem, just to be careful about contraception, etc.
I know from personal experience. My parents were super, super, unbelievably strict...beyond imagination.
I rebelled like you wouldn't believe.
Not everyone has the same experience as you, though. I've said before that almost all of the "wild" kids I knew in college were from very lax households. The kids from strict houses didn't, and still haven't, rebel(led). I know plenty of people who have had this same type of experience, too.
I personally itnend to be entirely open - from an early but age appropriate manner - about all topics sexual. Including the fact that some people try to attain it without the consent of the person they want to have it with. My approach to sexual conversation with my children will be an ongoing one - not a punctuated one.
This looks a whole lot like our rules. We did allow our kids to stay at other's houses a few times. Once, I even allowed my daughter to go on a camp out with one of the girls in her class. Her mother assured me that there would be 8 girls and a couple of other mothers as well. We promised our children, from a very early age, that they could call us, no matter WHAT, if anything made them feel uncomfortable, while they were with friends.....and we WOULD come and get them.
A couple of posters here have seen this story. Long story short....the hosting mother was the ONLY chaperone who showed up. A couple of the girls had alcohol stashed in their bags, for them ALL to share. They also had cigarettes and some pot. It got dark outside and the girls told their mom they were going to walk down to the beach. What they didn't tell the mom was that there were some high school boys who were meeting them down there with more alcohol.
My daughter told them that she was feeling really sick and needed to go home. She called.....we came to the rescue. My daughter never did anything with those girls again. They were 13 at the time. A year later, the birthday girl was pregnant with her first child. As for "judging good and bad kids"... all of these girls were members of my daughter's youth group at church and the mom was a very active member of our church.
I allow my sons to sleep away at times. But I don't allow them to decide at 10PM that they are "sleeping over" someone else's house on the fly. So what I mean about sleeping away really pertains to just deciding at the last minute. I know too many kids who use "sleeping at Xs house" as an excuse to just not come home.
I have had similar issues with my kids (one at a birthday party, another at a new year's eve party) at similar ages. Like you, the kids who were engaging in drinking at such early ages turned into troubled kids.
I get the idea that people think that there are two separate parenting philosophies, one where parents set the rules, the other where parents prepare their kids for real life conflict. I don't see the two as opposed to one another. Parents have to do both. Kids who are following their parents rules can still find themselves in situations where there is drinking or drug use. They need to know what to do. I will still continue to keep my kids away from situations where drinking or drug use is likely even as I tell them what to do if they encounter it. I don't see the two as being in conflict.
I do think though, that kids will rebel, at least a little, and break and/or ignore rules from time to time. You can't make a bunch of rules (speaking more to someone else here) and then feel comfortable that your kids will never get into such a situation.
I don't think a child is normal if they don't attempt to skirt the rules a bit.
Funny thing happened yesterday pertaining to this thread. My middle son (16) had a friend over yesterday after school. This is a boy I know fairly well. He does not feel comfortable talking to his parents about girls. He is a nerdy kid who is in the band and gets good grades.
He told me that the day before he had kissed a girl and now she was telling everyone that he FORCED her to kiss him. I told him that he needs to forget her because if his story is true she could wind up getting him arrested. His reaction to me was that he did not force the girl to do anything, she kissed him willingly. I told him that it didn't matter what the truth was. If she says that you forced her to kiss you, she could also say you forced her to do other things, even if she was a willing participant. Apparently, my son gave his friend the same advice (phew).
It struck me after he left that it was really sad that I had to say that to a 16 year old boy.
Does anyone remember the case a couple of years ago at a prom where they spiked the girl's drink, she was out cold and was then gang-raped right outside the building the prom was in (the school)?? Crazy.
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