Kids events scheduled during working hours why? (babysitters, games, smart)
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Yea, although I wasn't thinking of school volunteering either. I have no idea what's typical. Hopefully, most schools won't have a no-child policy for after school activities, but you never know.
Just a brief side note about school policy regarding preschool siblings.
It depends on the school district but many do not allow preschool siblings or older siblings to come with parents when they are involved in a structured school club or fieldtrip. This is primarily for safety and/or insurance reasons.
There have been other threads on it but the basic reason is that a parent's first responsibly is towards the child/children that they are supposed to be supervising and not their own other children. As in most situations some people probably "took advantage" and it got out of hand. As an example, as a special education teacher I needed several parent chaperones to come on a fieldtrip to the zoo. One mother wanted to be a chaperone (it would have been for her daughter and one or two other children) but she insisted that she had to bring her own other two children (a baby and a toddler) plus thetwo neighborhood children who she babysat for each day. The mom was very angry when I told her that not only was that against school policy it as also against the bus company policy to have extra children riding. If I would have let her do that, how safe would all of those children be? How could she possible be attentive to her daughter and one or two of her daughter's classmates while she was watching four other children? Man, was she angry. She went to the principal and said that I was discriminating against her "because she was poor" and couldn't hire a babysitter. Luckily the principal agreed with me and said that of course, her daughter, the student would be attending the fieldtrip, just supervised by the teacher, a staff member or another parent.
The same type of things happen when parents bring extra children to, for example an afterschool Girl Scout meeting, it had been very common for the parents to just tell their other kids to "go play". Then you would have unsupervised children running all over the school and playground with no one watching them or supervising them.
I don't want to hijack the thread but I wanted to point that out.
In my daughter's Girl Scout troop almost all of the activities were held on the weekends and evening. The leaders, cookie moms and key adults were all working mothers. Ironically, the 25% of the parents who were SAHMs volunteered very little to the group.
I think you missed the point. I was just giving an example of what happens when you give people a vote. People were given several dates. They were all Saturday evenings, the typical day/time we do these things in my neighborhood.
As far as the Girl Scout troop outing, I can just see the leader(s) saying, "Not just no but H*ll no, we're not setting up two different outings!", even though H*ll isn't too "Girl-Scoutly". Not to mention, the point of the outing is a troop activity.
I understand your example regarding the vote and how it can be a total PIA. I was just thinking of the culmination of posts prior to yours, and didn't want to include your example, so I noted it. I just don't think it's reasonable for a troop to only go by the schedule of one person. OTOH, if it's all volunteer work on the part of the troop leader (or people who either don't work or have open schedules) it's a beggar can't be choosers type of situation. I would be more comfortable with paid leaders and an organizational approach that is more majority family centric.
Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626
Just a brief side note about school policy regarding preschool siblings.
It depends on the school district but many do not allow preschool siblings or older siblings to come with parents when they are involved in a structured school club or fieldtrip. This is primarily for safety and/or insurance reasons.
See, to me that's not even what I would consider volunteer work. I had no idea that parents would go on a school field trip. I don't blame the school for not wanting them on the bus. It's a liability. She should simply take her own car if she wants to be a part of the experience. I would expect the paid teachers to take care of all that. Goes to show what I know. What I was thinking, OTOH, if school facilities were rented out or used by whatever groups/clubs, sort of like church basements, for meetings and whatnot. You take the kids in tow.
Quote:
In my daughter's Girl Scout troop almost all of the activities were held on the weekends and evening. The leaders, cookie moms and key adults were all working mothers. Ironically, the 25% of the parents who were SAHMs volunteered very little to the group.
This thread is interesting for me since it's all so new. I'm reminded of my first pediatrician interview. I had to talk with other moms and google to figure out what kind of questions I should ask. For that matter, it didn't dawn on me that I should interview a pediatrician, but after speaking with people and learning about the various issues that can come up, it turn out to be absolutely necessary.
I understand your example regarding the vote and how it can be a total PIA. I was just thinking of the culmination of posts prior to yours, and didn't want to include your example, so I noted it. I just don't think it's reasonable for a troop to only go by the schedule of one person. OTOH, if it's all volunteer work on the part of the troop leader (or people who either don't work or have open schedules) it's a beggar can't be choosers type of situation. I would be more comfortable with paid leaders and an organizational approach that is more majority family centric.
See, to me that's not even what I would consider volunteer work. I had no idea that parents would go on a school field trip. I don't blame the school for not wanting them on the bus. It's a liability. She should simply take her own car if she wants to be a part of the experience. I would expect the paid teachers to take care of all that. Goes to show what I know. What I was thinking, OTOH, if school facilities were rented out or used by whatever groups/clubs, sort of like church basements, for meetings and whatnot. You take the kids in tow.
Makes sense, especially since it was a majority.
Re: the bold, if so, Girl Scouts could become prohibitively expensive for some. In the gymnastics example I gave, the coaches were paid. Some moms wanted the whole program set up around their specific schedules. That can't happen in group situations.
I disagree that a mom should take four extra kids on a school field trip, even in her own car! For heaven's sake, if several people did that, there'd be a lot of extra kids! In addition, some of these field trips are kind of age-specific, so the littler kids would be bored and whine and fuss.
As an aside, I see the "working mom" vs "stay at home mom" fight is still ongoing. Each side thinks their group does more.
Re: the bold, if so, Girl Scouts could become prohibitively expensive for some. In the gymnastics example I gave, the coaches were paid. Some moms wanted the whole program set up around their specific schedules. That can't happen in group situations.
I disagree that a mom should take four extra kids on a school field trip, even in her own car! For heaven's sake, if several people did that, there'd be a lot of extra kids! In addition, some of these field trips are kind of age-specific, so the littler kids would be bored and whine and fuss.
As an aside, I see the "working mom" vs "stay at home mom" fight is still ongoing. Each side thinks their group does more.
It's certainly not a fight I plan to join when the time comes. Parents should do what works for them and their families. Again, if someone is volunteering their time there is not much that can be done imo because I don't think beggars can really be choosers. It just make sense to seek out other venues. I'm curious if it's region specific. Obviously, I don't know any stay at home moms, but I wonder what I'll come across.
If it's something that I'm volunteering a lot of my time to then I'm going to do it at the time that works best for me. If the meetings and events are all during the week, why wouldn't this be as well?
If it's something that I'm volunteering a lot of my time to then I'm going to do it at the time that works best for me. If the meetings and events are all during the week, why wouldn't this be as well?
But Larkspur,
If I understand you, you are saying that you did not take the time to ask other mothers or there were no other times when you were available so everyone who wanted to participate had to go when you were available. That doesn't seem fair. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying? I have the flexibility of taking my child places during the day (I work from home) but it just seems cordial and flexible to ask about and consider the schedule of others too.
This is a little different but I get annoyed when all of the weekday programs for toddlers are held in the morning...and none in the afternoon. This really does not allow for flexibility in terms of the child's sleep schedule. There are some children that would do better with a 1 or 2 pm program after a good nap than a 10 am or an 11 am program (as some children rise at 7:30 am and have been awake for hours by the time the program occurs and are getting tired by the time the program starts). I often wonder why everyone thinks it's better for toddlers to have programs at 11 and 10 than 1 or 2. Again, the idea is that a little flexibility can go a long way towards incorporating everyone into an activity or event.
I collected input from the girls about the types of activities. If I knew there would be a huge conflict on a certain day I wouldn't schedule it for that day.
The number one determinant with scheduling though was when either the coleader or other adults willing to chaperone were available. No coleader/other adult...that would stop the planning process right there.
Some activities that were council offered there was only one time offered. Some things like field trips that facility had a small range of times available which corresponded with the times I was available etc.
I'm not sure how it wouldn't seem fair. When I was a leader we made numerous requests for more involvement from the other parents. They were more than welcome to become leaders and help plan activities.
All of our meetings took place in the evenings. Activities outside of meetings happened at a variety of times, but some included weekends.
Because I work on a nontraditional schedule, I actually had less availability one evenings/weekends compared to most of the parents, so yes I did have fewer options about how flexible I could be.
I just spoke with a friend who has a daughter who is a daisy (hope I'm saying that right) and while they do have a troop leader, she doesn't run all the meetings. Each mom in the troop runs two meetings from A-Z, which is all the troop leader runs, so it doesn't fall all on one person. They've never had an outing during the work week, which would interfere with the school week. I didn't think of that. So, according to her, they haven't run across the problems noted in this thread. It seems like mom (or parental) involvement is key for success.
I understand your example regarding the vote and how it can be a total PIA. I was just thinking of the culmination of posts prior to yours, and didn't want to include your example, so I noted it. I just don't think it's reasonable for a troop to only go by the schedule of one person. OTOH, if it's all volunteer work on the part of the troop leader (or people who either don't work or have open schedules) it's a beggar can't be choosers type of situation. I would be more comfortable with paid leaders and an organizational approach that is more majority family centric.
See, to me that's not even what I would consider volunteer work. I had no idea that parents would go on aschool field trip. I don't blame the school for not wanting them on the bus. It's a liability. She should simply take her own car if she wants to be a part of the experience. I would expect the paid teachers to take care of all that. Goes to show what I know. What I was thinking, OTOH, if school facilities were rented out or used by whatever groups/clubs, sort of like church basements, for meetings and whatnot. You take the kids in tow.
Makes sense, especially since it was a majority.
To clarify, the parent chaperones for fieldtrips are allowed, in fact normally are normally required to ride the bus to the fieldtrips (not the school bus to school, the bus that is rented to go to fieldtrips), at least in my area. Can you imagine a bus full of , let's say two classes of kindergarten or first graders, 60 very excited children and just their two classroom teachers and no parent chaperones on the bus to help them on the bus and when they first get to the fieldtrip. I'm getting a headache just thinking about it.
But, those parent chaperones can not bring their other children, children that they babysit for or their pets along on fieldtrips. Don't laugh, I had a parent say that she couldn't leave their new puppy home alone and wanted to take the puppy on the school bus and to the science museum with us. She said that we could "lie" and call it a "helper dog".
I'm not that familiar with clubs or groups that meet in school building except that every child must be supervised and stay with their parent. Where I used to work, Girl Scouts met in the cafeteria right after school. parents would sometime just say to their other children who were not in GS "go to the library or computer lab or art room" (and other unsupervised areas) and wouldn't watch these other children (sometimes even toddlers). It got to be such a safety problem that all of the school rooms needed to be locked and special barricades put up to keep the roaming children out of the main school area (this was after school was over for the day or on the weekends).
Again, sorry to be off topic but I wanted to clear up the confusion about parents chaperoning fieldtrips.
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