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Old 06-08-2013, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Man with a tan hat
799 posts, read 1,257,979 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
"Following one's passion" can be very costly and counter-productive. The art history major that I talked about upthread who ended up living at home after the master's degree is a case in point. When that girl was still an undergraduate I checked with an older Ph.D. in art history who informed me that jobs in art history were terribly hard to get - there were WAY too many graduates in that field - and this was before the recession hit in 2008 which just made things worse.

I informed the parents of the then 21-year-old student of the situation (I didn't know the girl well enough to contact her directly). They pooh-poohed the warning, saying they always encouraged their children to follow their passions. A few years later, master's degree in hand, the princess is living at home for a year and a half with no job at all, in her field or otherwise. Can you say spoiled? Can you say parent-enabled dysfunctionality? I never did ask if the parents passed on my warning to their daughter, as that would be too much like rubbing it in.

Just to bring the story up to date, princess did finally find a part-time job in art which she worked for another year and a half while still living at home before throwing in the towel (i.e., giving up on finding a full time job in her field) and going back to school in another field. The new field is international relations. While I don't know what the job prospects are there, they've got to be better than art history.

Art history gets my vote for being the most useless degree out there. (Yes, I know that's arguable.)

Maybe not.

My youngest sister is married to a guy with a Master's in International Relations from American University. They live in the DC area and he has been trying to get a job in his field making more than 40K for two years. Most everyone goes to DC or NYC with this degree (to work with the UN, the State Department, the intel community, etc) and the jobs are highly sought after. Every year the market is flooded with grads who want to work these "sexy" jobs. Though some find work, most of it does not pay nearly what they would need to make to live in such high COL areas. My brother in law is considering the Peace Corps which will give him hands on experience, but after his 3 year rotation will deposit him right back where he started richer a few thousand dollars for the Peace Corps readjustment stipend. He was recently offered a good paying job with DoD in international arms sales but turned it down because it was not close enough to his vision for his career. My sister about killed him.

To bring things back to the topic, if a parent is going to be supporting a kid after school, then the parent should have input on what the kid studies. There should be some expectation of the kid amassing a practical skill set that will help them to be independent. If the kid really wants to follow their dream/passion (like I did) the kid should be fully prepared to move out and struggle for a while.
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Old 06-08-2013, 09:39 AM
 
Location: In the city
1,581 posts, read 3,166,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatisthedealwith View Post
Maybe not.

My youngest sister is married to a guy with a Master's in International Relations from American University. They live in the DC area and he has been trying to get a job in his field making more than 40K for two years. Most everyone goes to DC or NYC with this degree (to work with the UN, the State Department, the intel community, etc) and the jobs are highly sought after. Every year the market is flooded with grads who want to work these "sexy" jobs. Though some find work, most of it does not pay nearly what they would need to make to live in such high COL areas. My brother in law is considering the Peace Corps which will give him hands on experience, but after his 3 year rotation will deposit him right back where he started richer a few thousand dollars for the Peace Corps readjustment stipend. He was recently offered a good paying job with DoD in international arms sales but turned it down because it was not close enough to his vision for his career. My sister about killed him.

To bring things back to the topic, if a parent is going to be supporting a kid after school, then the parent should have input on what the kid studies. There should be some expectation of the kid amassing a practical skill set that will help them to be independent. If the kid really wants to follow their dream/passion (like I did) the kid should be fully prepared to move out and struggle for a while.
Haha, yes. I used to live in DC and work in HR. I can't tell you how many applicants would come in seeking IR jobs. I would always try and re-direct toward something that was actually hiring.
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Old 06-08-2013, 11:15 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 4,710,947 times
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This is a generational thing. It isn't that children are born different, to suggest a change that was nationwide in the brains of children at birth would be absurd. But I don't think anyone is suggesting that. I think what we are witnessing is a generation that is coming up in an age of technology that makes information more accessible, personal responsibility less respected (more important, but less socially required), and careers less obtainable. Quite honestly, I believe we are seeing an economic shift.

The flow of capital to capital has increased, while the flow of capital to labor has decreased. The standard of living for the working class has not been raised in 25 years. Do they have new technologies? Yes, but do they have more purchasing power? No. Economic studies have shown that while worker productivity has increased with higher amounts of capital per worker allowing for more automation, the increased productivity has not translated into higher pay. The entire increase has gone to raising profits that are translated into gains for the owners rather than the workers.

This isn't class warfare. I'm working in Finance, so it wouldn't make sense for me to loathe my own sector. However, I'm aware of the economic impacts when wages are slashed. Many of these young people would have a very hard time trying to find meaningful work in this job market. I fear that some may never make it, even if the market improves. When I was 19, I moved out. I had had enough of living under my parents roof. At 20 I married a wonderful woman who had moved out from her parents house at 18. Moving out seems to have a correlation with success in the adult world, though I've known a few outliers.

It's hard. Parents need to be demanding that children moving back home do ALL of the house work, or get out and sleep in a cardboard box. The job market sucks, so create a job for them. Living at home and being a leach is not an acceptable path in life.
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Old 06-08-2013, 11:47 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,772,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatisthedealwith View Post
My family is rife with adult children (nieces, nephews, cousins) who either come home after college and work a part time job while sponging off their parents or adult kids who don't go to college and live at home with or without a job.
This floors me as my siblings and I were raised to be very independent. I don't quite understand how the same people I grew up with now let their kids be so useless.

There is no reason for it. Nothing is wrong with any of these kids. I have one nephew who is going to college this fall and he says he "may not bother to look" for a summer job because he is "leaving in August." Uhhh, yeah. That is what is called a SUMMER job. And my niece is 25 and has only had a job for a few weeks at a time. She goes EVERYWHERE with her mom and is spoiled rotten. I often have to remind myself how old she is because I literally see her as being 12 or 13 due to her behavior and level of independence.

I was grousing about this to a friend who says his youngest sister just graduated from college and has no plans to get an apartment or do anything other than move home with her mom. Is this a generational thing that I just don't get? I am 36, so not that old, but seriously, I do not understand.
Home for the summer is one thing, but if you mean after they've graduated from college and they aren't working but mooching off family members, that was a whole lot less common in the past but not so uncommon today.

30 is the new 20. In the past, parents expected kids, those going to college included, to start working by age 16 or 18.

I doubt there has ever been any generation before where so many people 20-25 have not yet held a job.
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Old 06-08-2013, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,031 posts, read 98,929,643 times
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Most of these posts are personal anecdotes. I'll play. I don't know all these hordes of young adults who have moved back in with their parents after college graduation. I do know of a few. One lived at home for close to 10 years, but he was working. The parents didn't charge him rent, but he did buy groceries. He tried to buy a condo at one time, but he didn't have any credit references, although he had lots of money saved. My neighbor moved home, went to work, then moved out to live with a friend. It didn't work out. She says she'll move out when she can buy a place of her own. She is paying for a car, so she'll have credit. Another neighbor, lived at home the last year of college, and for the first month or so of work. Then a friend who bought a house had a room for rent, so he moved. I know few over 25 who are living at home, and not that many under 25, either. I have kids in this age group. Few of their friends (other than the neighbor girl) are living at home. One just bought a condo at 29, having lived at home since college grad, which was a mutually acceptable arrangement between her and her parents. How is it that some of you seem to know all these people?

ETA: The first guy moved away from home, to live with his girlfriend.
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Denver area
21,148 posts, read 22,139,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Home for the summer is one thing, but if you mean after they've graduated from college and they aren't working but mooching off family members, that was a whole lot less common in the past but not so uncommon today.

30 is the new 20. In the past, parents expected kids, those going to college included, to start working by age 16 or 18.

I doubt there has ever been any generation before where so many people 20-25 have not yet held a job.
I honestly don't know anyone that fits this discription....Adult children I know who live at home are either going to school and working while living at home or recently graduated college and looking for work - which, despite what some posters think can be challenging regardless of one's major - business/STEM grads aren't guaranteed jobs immediately upon graduation either. I know of no adult children living at home and "mooching" off of their parents. They contribute whether it's financially, or by helping out with home maintenance or household chores etc. If people have adult children living at home who are "mooching", frankly, it's their own fault for setting low expectations of what it means to be a family member.
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:00 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,772,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linmora View Post
Agreed. Once I left home to attend college, I was pretty much on my own. I really did miss my parents and dreadfully regret that we had such a long distance relationship. Although I do wish for my kids to be independent, I would love it if they were at least in the same state.

If my kids plan on living with us while they get situated in life, that is fine with me. There will be several conditions though. You will be looking for a job and working, even if it means not working at your dream job. This will help you pay for car insurance, cell phone bills, living expenses. Secondly, it is my house, my rules. I'm not your maid---you can pick up after yourself, do your laundry, take out trash, wash your dishes, etc. I've watched my best friend be maid to her 26 year old son who thankfully moved out and got his own apartment with his gf this past year. I wouldn't tolerate some of the behavior she did.

I do have some concerns, especially with my daughter who I've written at length on these boards. I suspect that she may need much more guidance and help than the average child. Whether she attends college at this point is debatable. I predict that she will need some additional growing up time before moving to complete independence. Each situation and each family is different and one must adapt.
Each kid is different. There have always been the "slow to launch" and the "failure to launch" types, if they don't create problems for the parents and everyone is happy with the arrangement, it's even okay if they never leave home.

One of my in-laws was a recovering alcoholic who moved in with his widowed mother. He never drank again and she actually enjoyed his company, he did all the yard work and did find and hold down a job, she had someone to cook for. They'd watch television together and it was pleasant enough for the both of them.
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:06 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,772,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
I honestly don't know anyone that fits this discription....Adult children I know who live at home are either going to school and working while living at home or recently graduated college and looking for work (which, despite what some posters think is challenging regardless of one's major - business/STEM grads aren't guaranteed jobs immediately upon graduation either. I know of no adult children living at home and "mooching" off of their parents. They contribute whether it's financially, or by helping out with home maintenance or household chores etc. If people have adult children living at home who are "mooching", frankly, it's their own fault for setting low expectations of what it means to be a family member.
I know quite a few. One woman I work with even tried to retire but had to come back to work. She supports her almost 40+ year old son who graduated from college some time ago, couldn't hang onto the one job she found him. He is fairly high maintenance as he likes expensive clothes and needs money to go out to eat and hang out with friends.

Another co-worker has a son well into his 30's who quit working a job after only a few months, he lives with her, she says he does help with some projects around the house. Mostly he watches television.

Doing a few chores like they did when they were 12 doesn't cut it though in my opinion. Especially if they have completed college, they need to be earning decent money and at that point, I'd consider them a roommate who can split expenses in half.
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:08 PM
 
Location: CA
2,464 posts, read 5,691,758 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
My brother moved out at 18. Never completed college. Could not afford it. Drifts from job to job. Mostly menial jobs at pretty low pay. His employers often treat him badly because they know he has few options. He has always struggled financially. Lost his house and we end up paying for medication he needs but cannot afford.

My Sister moved out at 18. Never went to college. Never held a job for long. Blames our parents for making her move out. Her husband makes a decent income, but they still struggle at times.

I lived with my parents through college and summers during law school. I had my choice of several job offers in seven different states. It was easy to trade up in jobs. I am respected as "successful" by societies standards. I am rich by Obama's standards (but no where near as rich as Obama).

Younger brother stays with parents through college and a masters degree. Went to Germany for a time and then lived with them upon his return. He has a good job, paid off his house, buys new cars when he wants them.

The CEO of Wayne County Michigan lived in his mothers basement until she died and still lived in the house (upstairs now). He was the County Sherriff and then elected CEO of the county. He manages the budget and all other operations for one of the largest counties in the United States.

Living with your parents does not = loser. In fact it is a sign of a more practical person. Combining resources and expenditures makes sense. Moving out and doubling the cost and consumption of man resources just so you can say "I am independent" is silly. Moving out and leaving yourself unable to afford education or training for a good career, makes even less sense.

Most parents on this thread said they woudl allow heir child to live at home if they need to in order to get up on their feet financially. None said they woudl try to compel them to do so. Offering your kid a place to live while they save up to get started is not more coddling them than is buying them a washing machine or a refrigerator for their new apartment, or cosigning a loan, or providing cheaper car insurance by bundling it with yours. Heck I was making roughly $200K in the 1990s (more than three times my dads highest income level. My in laws bought us a new washer and dryer we could not afford and all of our relatives helped us come up with money for down-payment and moving costs when we finally bought a house. Why? Because they were established and so had savings and extra income. Their houses were paid off and kids grown and out. While we were still paying off student loans, buying furniture to replace the milk crates, and trying to get into some decent cars. I never felt coddled, but I was certainly appreciative. I think they were happy to be able to sit on a chair instead of a milk crate when they visited. (you can make anything out of milk crates, chair, couch, tv stand, table, even a bed (if you have a mattress and box springs)

Six years ago, while we were restoring our house (at a cost approaching seven figures), we were evicted by the local building inspector for three to five weeks. We went and lived with my Mom and Dad. (all seven of us). They were happy to have us and it was a financial lifesaver for us. If we had to pay for a hotel for that long, we would not have been able to finish the house to get a C of O, and we would have lost the house.


I see no problem with parents helping out their adult children as much as practical regardless of their age or income. That is what family is all about. As my dad gets older, he may move n with us so we can take care of him. If my brother loses his job, he will probably move in too. That is not coddling, it is looking out for one another. Likewise if any of my kids need to live at our house to save moeny so they can get started, the door will be open. Heck if they want to live in the basement until we die and then move upstairs, that is fine too.

I do not understand anyone contending that helping their children get started is a bad thing, but then I am convinced there is nothing that at least one person will not criticize, particularly when it comes to parenting.
Very well said Coldjensen (the entire post really, not just the bolded). I think parents (for me anyway) look at it as a practical matter and not one of "codependence." I think this is being made as something that's detrimental to the adult kid, when in actuality, most adult children want to be independent financially, but it just makes more sense to save money for that house down payment, or pay off the student loan, or frankly, not be alone. I own an apartment in Southern Cal, and I am fully aware of how expensive it is and potentially stressful it is with dealing with high rents and/or roommates.

Even if we didn't live in an expensive area, it takes a LONG time to be financially secure, and I would rather my kid have a leg up in the finances department by simply living at home (after college or whenever), than throw money down the drain in rent. My kids are welcome here if they choose but it's relative and dependent on whether or not it's mutually beneficial.

However, I do recognize that some adult children are lazy, unmotiviated, moochers and I think the school of hard-knocks is necessary to get them to understand that those traits will get you no where fast. I have seen adult kids take advantage of their parents and I think that type of dysfunctional relationship should be criticized. If the relationship is functional and mutually respectful that's one thing, but, codependent parents and their self-centered, mooching kids is another.
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Denver area
21,148 posts, read 22,139,461 times
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Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I know quite a few. One woman I work with even tried to retire but had to come back to work. She supports her almost 40+ year old son who graduated from college some time ago, couldn't hang onto the one job she found him. He is fairly high maintenance as he likes expensive clothes and needs money to go out to eat and hang out with friends.

Another co-worker has a son well into his 30's who quit working a job after only a few months, he lives with her, she says he does help with some projects around the house. Mostly he watches television.

Doing a few chores like they did when they were 12 doesn't cut it though in my opinion. Especially if they have completed college, they need to be earning decent money and at that point, I'd consider them a roommate who can split expenses in half.
I'm sorry but if you can't retire because you are supporting a 40 yr old who can't find/hold a job, something went wrong long ago. That is not the same thing as a recent grad living at home and looking for work or working and saving money for a downpayment on a house and/or paying down student loans while helping out around the house. Not even remotely the same thing.
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