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Old 06-12-2013, 10:24 AM
 
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Our 2nd child, classic mistake, co-sleeping... I know, I know, we knew better, but we had our reasons. It started with very bad colic, breast feeding on the regular, pretty quickly the basinet was of no use and all of the sudden, we were co-sleeping on the regular.

We've made several attempts, he has his own room, we tried the crib, we even converted it to a toddler bed very early to give him the freedom to get up, but it's freak-out city.

I dont want to debate the "cry it out" tactic. I'm not willing to lock him in a room for an hour and hope he figures it out, I'm just not. I'm hoping for advise on techniques to gradually get him to not hate his room like we're taking him to Hell everytime we even walk towards his room.

A couple issues
1. He has a heart condition, so that's really why I'm not willing to allow him to scream bloody murder for an hour and just get over it eventually.
2. My wife is pregnant, we're due in December and our 2 yr old needs to be out of our bed and sleeping peacefully before then, preferably many months before.

We're running out of time and not even close. To compound things, he doesn't just sleep in our bed, he rolls around for hours, kicks, punches, slaps, lays all over us, it's Party in the USA in our bed to him. He sleeps poorly, we sleep poorly, it's bad. He also MUST be touching my wife at all times. Her face, her body, its freak out city if he cant be touching her. With a progressing pregnancy, him laying on top of her isn't going to work for a number of reasons.

I don't know what to do, he's old enough to understand he needs to sleep in his own his room like his older brother... or is he? I don't expect a radical change and acceptance overnight, but nothing works, I'm at a loss.

HELP!!
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Old 06-12-2013, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
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Have you tried designating a spot for him in your room? Either a bed or small mattress on the floor. Make it clear that he sleeps there or his own room.
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:14 PM
 
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Is his heart condition affecting his sleeping? The fact he sleeps very poorly is a bit worrying. But you also got to stop letting his condition be an excuse to let your child get away with undesired behavior.

It would've been easier if he just slept first in your bed then you move him into his bed. You might start doing that, which means you're going to be real tired at first. It would be an easier transition to do it in your room first (either by putting his mattress or cot there) then spacing it out further over time until eventually he's in his room.
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:23 PM
 
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Two options, one is most likely quicker, the other longer...

1. This is the longer way, but what we had to do with our youngest who had a lot of sleep troubles. We set her bed up in our room so she had her own space while still being nearby. This lasted for nearly a year and then we slowly transitioned her to her own room. It was basically a way to take things one step at a time. First, you get out of our bed, but you get to stay in our room in your own bed. Then, your bed magically makes its way into your room. Step one is always disassociating your bed as where they sleep in the least combative way possible.

2. Sleep in their room with them. If the connection is more to the person, then setup a bed that mommy or daddy can sleep in with them in their own room. This way when they fall asleep mommy or daddy can get up and go back to their own room. Slowly transition from laying with them in their bed, to laying next to their bed on the floor, to sitting by the door, etc. If you can get them to be in their own room, even if you have to stay with them for a while, it's the quicker option than doing the whole their bed in your room thing.
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Florida
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We did the bed-in-our-room thing when the second baby came along. The kids are pre-teens now and obviously each sleeps in his/her own bed. No regrets here; I enjoyed having them nearby when they were little. The "little" years go by fast.
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Old 06-12-2013, 01:03 PM
 
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P.U./P.D.~My Baby Sleep Guide - Your baby sleep problems solved!

I'm just learning about it now.
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Old 06-12-2013, 02:29 PM
 
3,279 posts, read 3,774,393 times
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I don't say this to preach, I really don't, except to make a point--this is why I always advocate against co-sleeping. I have never done it, would never do it, and unless it's to the point that to do otherwise would almost certainly result in death (their heart condition), recommend strongly no one ever do it period.

One pundit I like (John Rosemond) and who is strongly anti-co-sleeping has, for situations along these lines, recommended things along the lines of a "half door" (saw off the top half so there's a partial bottom half there) so that they physically are unable to get out of their room but they nonetheless are able to SEE out. They're going to pitch a fit, but that doesn't mean they have a real NEED and you're a bad parent to not give in to it. My thoughts here: upon doing so, go to bed, turn on a large fan, plug your ears, whatever drowns out the noise, and let them have at it. They get upset--tough. It's like a bridge, they'll get over it. They're not going to learn their parents don't care for them. They're not going to turn into Adam Lanza and shoot up a school because their parents communicated the message they aren't valuable to them. They're going to learn their parents are the leaders of the house and have very reasonable boundaries they expect to be honored.

Again, I stress, this is assuming the heart condition doesn't make this a medical emergency. Clear that first. If that problem wasn't there, I'd recommend this course of action without reservation. Not being a doctor I can't speak with any confidence as to what that might lead to.

No, I'm not trolling. I'm absolutely serious. They must know resolutely--you are to sleep in your room, you have no choice in the matter, we're the parents, we said so, end of discussion. Don't like it? Oh well. Sometimes your parents make you do things you don't like. It's called life a child. Get used to it.

LRH
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Old 06-12-2013, 02:55 PM
 
1,168 posts, read 1,593,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larrytxeast View Post
I don't say this to preach, I really don't, except to make a point--this is why I always advocate against co-sleeping. I have never done it, would never do it, and unless it's to the point that to do otherwise would almost certainly result in death (their heart condition), recommend strongly no one ever do it period.

One pundit I like (John Rosemond) and who is strongly anti-co-sleeping has, for situations along these lines, recommended things along the lines of a "half door" (saw off the top half so there's a partial bottom half there) so that they physically are unable to get out of their room but they nonetheless are able to SEE out. They're going to pitch a fit, but that doesn't mean they have a real NEED and you're a bad parent to not give in to it. My thoughts here: upon doing so, go to bed, turn on a large fan, plug your ears, whatever drowns out the noise, and let them have at it. They get upset--tough. It's like a bridge, they'll get over it. They're not going to learn their parents don't care for them. They're not going to turn into Adam Lanza and shoot up a school because their parents communicated the message they aren't valuable to them. They're going to learn their parents are the leaders of the house and have very reasonable boundaries they expect to be honored.

Again, I stress, this is assuming the heart condition doesn't make this a medical emergency. Clear that first. If that problem wasn't there, I'd recommend this course of action without reservation. Not being a doctor I can't speak with any confidence as to what that might lead to.

No, I'm not trolling. I'm absolutely serious. They must know resolutely--you are to sleep in your room, you have no choice in the matter, we're the parents, we said so, end of discussion. Don't like it? Oh well. Sometimes your parents make you do things you don't like. It's called life a child. Get used to it.

LRH
I appreciate the insight, I dont consider it trolling. We didn't co-sleep with our oldest and have little issue there. The heart condition is still up in the air. A somewhat normal and small hole in his heart never closed and when the doctor continues to say "that's weird, we'll keep an eye on that" I don't really want to risk it. We certainly don't prevent him from any type of normal activity or physical play, but I couldn't live with myself if an hour long intense screaming lesson resulted in some sort of really bad medical situation related to his heart. I would blame myself and don't want to risk it. It may sound like a bit much, but it's how I feel. Just seems like there should be a better way than locking them in, putting in ear phones and telling them "tough, I'm the boss around here". Especially at almost 2 years old, I feel like I could almost reason with him at this age, maybe I'm crazy.
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Old 06-12-2013, 03:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintCabbage View Post
I appreciate the insight, I dont consider it trolling. We didn't co-sleep with our oldest and have little issue there. The heart condition is still up in the air. A somewhat normal and small hole in his heart never closed and when the doctor continues to say "that's weird, we'll keep an eye on that" I don't really want to risk it. We certainly don't prevent him from any type of normal activity or physical play, but I couldn't live with myself if an hour long intense screaming lesson resulted in some sort of really bad medical situation related to his heart. I would blame myself and don't want to risk it. It may sound like a bit much, but it's how I feel. Just seems like there should be a better way than locking them in, putting in ear phones and telling them "tough, I'm the boss around here". Especially at almost 2 years old, I feel like I could almost reason with him at this age, maybe I'm crazy.
I'm glad, I mentioned trolling because many here seem to be very-pro co-sleeping, which is fine we all have our opinions, but because of that sometimes my posts aren't well received. I most certainly am not trying to stir a hornet's nest, for one we then end up bickering amongst ourselves & lose sight of the original poster's question, that's you. Such can't be one's goal here, mine or whoever's, else it's pointless to comment.

When you say "seems like there should be a better way than locking them in & telling them tough I'm the boss" etc--where it regards your not wanting to risk his heart condition I understand, if for no other reason than because again I'm not a doctor & can't speak as to what affects yelling on his part could cause to happen. Not knowing, I don't blame you for choosing not to chance it and going the safe route. However, if they didn't have such a condition, or if the doctor clarifies that your worries are unfounded, I'd do such in a minute and not feel the least bit of guilt or such over it. Children should have a sense of belonging & their opinion mattering, sure, but at the same time they also need a sense of that their parent is the boss and what they say goes no matter whether you like it or not. If it takes strong measures to enforce that understanding, then so be it (again, I'm talking with GENERAL children, not ones with a possibly-risky heart condition).

I used to observe other parents in person tip-toe around their children's feelings scared of not getting their approval, and I was like "to heck with that, when I'm a parent they're not going to manipulate me like that," and they haven't. Just last night, for instance, I ripped into my kids hard-core for coming into the house and leaving the door open, letting all the cool air-conditioned air escape. Some years back I observed my nieces/nephews going in & out, in & out, in & out, in & out, in & out, in & out (get it?) at a relative's house and actually ripped into them myself (I had permission) "in or out, pick one, stick with it" they went out & for like 30 minutes I held the door & wouldn't let them back in at all. I mean they were, I'm talking every 30-90 seconds, going in then out, in then out, constantly. It was hot that day & their grandparents were chewing them out for letting all the cold air out. I said to myself "if I have kids & they do that, oh boy will they get it."

And last night, they did. I mean, heck, it was 97'F all day and still 85'F at night. Like heck is that foolishness going to be tolerated.

They've got to know who's boss. They'll still know you love them, because of course you love on them all the other times, in abundance no less. I'm no different.

Oops, I'm risking a long diatribe here, time to stop.

LRH
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Old 06-12-2013, 03:26 PM
 
19,081 posts, read 21,233,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larrytxeast View Post
They've got to know who's boss. They'll still know you love them, because of course you love on them all the other times, in abundance no less. I'm no different.

Oops, I'm risking a long diatribe here, time to stop.

LRH
Given that high cortisol levels result from stress, and that continued stress and subsequently continued high cortisol levels have negative effects down the line, why recommend that tactic without exhausting other efforts?
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