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Old 10-05-2013, 07:04 PM
 
18,073 posts, read 18,736,202 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmsn4Life View Post
It doesn't matter. The best con artists in the world always have a very plausible back-up explanations for their behavior when caught.

Anyone could attempt to explain away bad behavior by saying, "LOL JK. I wasn't really gonna do anything. It was just a joke."
Except you are still implying it is bad behavior; making a hit list for game characters is hardly bad behavior.

She could have very well not made any list and went on a mass shooting spree; how many mass shooters had hit lists?

Schools have a habit of knee jerk over-reactions, too bad so many support this ridiculous stuff.

Really, if schools had to be held to an actual legal standard, much of this BS would never hold up.
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Old 10-05-2013, 07:07 PM
 
18,073 posts, read 18,736,202 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmsn4Life View Post
Hardly the point.
That is the point; the hit list was BS, as is the so called hit list in this thread.

But then again, making a finger gun is now an offense. I just wonder much more ridiculous stuff schools are going to come up with. At least they are not forgetting to actually educate the kids given our world ranking.
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Old 10-05-2013, 07:21 PM
 
11,642 posts, read 23,847,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
Wait a second.

The teen had a list that was titled "Kill List" with names of her classmates. Do you really think that school administrators should just ignore something like that?

Playing the devil's advocate, let's say that the school did totally ignore it because the teenage said "it was just a list of friends that I wanted to kill on Minecraft" but it really WAS a Kill List and she then went on a rampage. Hmmm, I wonder what people would be writing then. Probably how the school totally messed up.
The school didn't ignore it. The found the list and investigated. Their investigation found that there was no threat to anyone. However, they punished the child the same as if she had actually done something wrong. I wonder why they bothered to investigate at all.
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Old 10-05-2013, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
49,932 posts, read 59,719,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
That is the point; the hit list was BS, as is the so called hit list in this thread.

But then again, making a finger gun is now an offense. I just wonder much more ridiculous stuff schools are going to come up with. At least they are not forgetting to actually educate the kids given our world ranking.
I'll ignore your red herrings.

Rules are rules are rules.

When testing intent, those in charge have to gauge whether someone is aware of probable and possible consequences of their actions. Even in a court of law, she would have likely been found guilty of recklessness of some kind and received punishment.

I know one thing ... She is now much more keenly aware of probable and possible consequences of her actions.
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Old 10-05-2013, 07:38 PM
 
11,642 posts, read 23,847,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmsn4Life View Post
I'll ignore your red herrings.

Rules are rules are rules.

When testing intent, those in charge have to gauge whether someone is aware of probable and possible consequences of their actions. Even in a court of law, she would have likely been found guilty of recklessness of some kind and received punishment.

I know one thing ... She is now much more keenly aware of probable and possible consequences of her actions.
I do not believe in rules are rules. School policy is not LAW. It is made by administrators often for their convenience. School rules can be STUPID AND WRONG and a child should not have their entire school year ruined because someone made a stupid rule.
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Old 10-05-2013, 07:48 PM
 
13,978 posts, read 25,876,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
I do not believe in rules are rules. School policy is not LAW. It is made by administrators often for their convenience. School rules can be STUPID AND WRONG and a child should not have their entire school year ruined because someone made a stupid rule.
Her year isn't ruined because somebody made a stupid rule, it is ruined because she broke it.

I said before, I think the punishment is excessive. But, I don't think it's a case for the media, or the courts.
Hopefully the administration will reconsider if the OP doesn't make it a line in the sand , but admits her daughter was wrong, and her daughter also acknowledges it. Better to learn a lesson in 7th grade than down the road. I think the OP is handling it well.
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Old 10-05-2013, 07:56 PM
 
2,098 posts, read 2,489,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
The school didn't ignore it. The found the list and investigated. Their investigation found that there was no threat to anyone. However, they punished the child the same as if she had actually done something wrong. I wonder why they bothered to investigate at all.
The fact that she did not mean it to be interpreted as a threat does not mean she "did nothing wrong." Making a "kill list" with students' names on it was doing something wrong. Going to the airport and making jokes about certain topics will get you arrested whether you're serious or just have really dumb judgment.

The school gave her a 2 day suspension, which is a tiny slap on the wrist. Kids get worse than that for shoving another kid in the cafeteria, or calling someone a really bad name. If it had been credible, she would've been sent to an alternative school, or expelled.

The school has to enforce policy consistently, or the parents of the child who IS serious about harming people will turn around and claim their child should have no consequences whatsoever just like they let Kid A. The problem is that both the good kids and the bad kids say they're innocent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
A child should not have their entire school year ruined because someone made a stupid rule.
What a dramatic overreaction. The child is being suspended for 2 days which is a slap on the wrist. She is not being allowed to attend a five day out of town field trip at the end of the year, which frankly, if I were the parents of a child who is two years younger than grade level peers and shows judgment that at times reflects this, I wouldn't think she was ready for anyway. She cannot earn a spot on the honor roll because of her behavior. None of this constitutes her entire school year being ruined.
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Old 10-05-2013, 08:00 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,671,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
And who was killed on that hit list?
They killed 13 people between them. This is exactly why intent does not matter.

Making a hit list is a warning sign in and of itself. Even if those particular students were not targeted it can be indicative of a serious problem. If someone had taken Harris' list seriously, maybe those 13 people would not be dead.

As for the administrators and the OP's daughter, her intent is irrelevant, since it was her action (making the list) that she was punished for. If they actually thought she was going to kill people, they wouldn't have suspended her, they would have had her removed from the school permanently.

In school, and in life, breaking the rules, even without ill intent is still breaking the rules. If you tell the office you didn't mean to speed he is still going to give you a ticket. If you leave your young child home alone, that act, even well intentioned, is enough to warrant actions by CPS. Same thing in schools.

On friday, a freshman dropped the f-bomb unintentionally right in front of teachers, principal, etc. He still got detention even though he didn't curse AT anyone and didn't intend to curse.

Sometimes actions are enough to be punished, especially when we cannot establish intent.
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Old 10-05-2013, 08:07 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,671,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
I do not believe in rules are rules. School policy is not LAW. It is made by administrators often for their convenience. School rules can be STUPID AND WRONG and a child should not have their entire school year ruined because someone made a stupid rule.
This rule is clearly not a stupid one.

Making lists of people to kill have been shown to be a warning sign for violent behavior. Schools SHOULD take them seriously. Making it a rule, for student to "not make threats against other students" is absolutely NOT a stupid rule. No student should threaten to kill other students, and they should especially not be making lists of people to kill.

Suppose a child makes a list of people to kill, and the principal (who btw is not a criminal psychologist) decides to ignore it. That child then goes on to harm another student. Are you actually claiming the principal who ignored this clear warning sign then hold zero responsibility for not providing a safe environment for all students?

You are clearly under the wrong impression of what the responsibility a principal and administrators have for their students. Parents are supposed to be the primary advocate for their children. Schools primary responsibility is to provide a safe educational environment for the student body as a whole, not for an individual student who has already broken the rules.
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Old 10-05-2013, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
49,932 posts, read 59,719,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momma_bear View Post
school rules can be stupid and wrong and a child should not have their entire school year ruined because someone made a stupid rule.
lol
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