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That is my point. Pure exposure. Also the fact that the majority of people DON'T completely abstain nor is there any compelling reason for them too.
I would respectfully disagree that there isn't a compelling reason for a good deal of people to abstain. What you see and what likely goes on behind closed doors for a bunch is probably another thing entirely.
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Originally Posted by somebodynew
I don't know what you mean by "the drugs are bad speech". We have accurate discussions around news, people we know, etc.. I don't agree that "drugs are bad". If that is the message, then it is going to take your high schooler about 30 seconds to figure out you are full of ****. They see some kids smoking pot every now and then (or some kids parent) and realize that the real consequences of that are nothing exciting. Hopefully they won't ignore ALL their lessons about drugs then and assume that heroine is the same! Or meth.
I had specifically said hard recreational drugs, I wasn't referring to pot.
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Originally Posted by somebodynew
I am not sure if anyone is suggesting that. They need a good education about ALL of it. But I don't see the value in treating it like is is going to explode in their face when all evidence to the contrary is right in front of them. You model responsible driving, then you expect responsible driving. It is no different.
It is plenty different. Your child isn't you. You can become addicted to alcohol regardless of what your parent's modeled.
I didn't say to treat it as if it were going to explode in their face. But as I said in post I just replied to, it's people that don't have issues with it that underestimate the insidious nature of the affliction. They just don't think it'll happen, or even could happen, to their kids. My humble opinion is that it's not as simple as some people have suggested. With luck it is. Hopefully they never suffer the ravages of it otherwise.
I am torn about this post. Alcohol can have serious consequences. Its addictiveness clearly blows doors on say pot. But when you say something like some people can have a recreational relationship with things like heroine and meth, I think you are getting into dangerous fiction land. I think that the focus on alcohol issues is heightened BECAUSE of its prevalence in our society. Your own link makes it pretty clear that the bar of "alcohol problem" is pretty low. And in my opinion not even close to comparable to something like meth or heroine. I am not trying to minimize the risk of alcohol. Just place it correctly in the risk scale. The fact is that the vast majority of people who use alcohol do not wind up in life altering places. The same cannot be said of other drugs.
The risk is that your point winds up sounding hysterical when that inaccurate. I wonder if your kids would hear that too? And lose confidence in your credibility.
If you don't drink at all in your home, and I doubt you do with your very serious views, then whether or not your children are exposed to it is a no brainer.
Don't worry, my credibility is sound. I've been in the top level of the record making business for over thirty years. I've seen every combination of every drug known to man used on a frequent basis by all different types of people.
I've seen some pick up the crack pipe, snort heroin, have a hit of E, and then go about the rest of their lives like nothing happened. I've seen people drink till they died.
Some people it effects long term and some people it doesn't. Seriously. I've worked with many people and sat there and watched them snort big lines of the hard stuff over and over and then lose interest. Hell, I've done it myself.
But you're really really wrong if you don't think alcohol causes serious - heroin serious - problems for a lot of people. It does. They just hide it. And it's understandable, drinkers seek out and hang out with other drinkers. If you aren't the serious drinking type, then likely you don't know a lot of heavy users.
And it doesn't have to be that you've fallen to addiction for it to have adverse effect. Plenty of people have done dreadfully stupid things and things they can never take back. That they wouldn't have done if they'd been sober.
I'm not being hysterical. I'm taking it as seriously as it should be taken. And I don't think telling your kids this is overstating the potential issues. I wish more parents would. I wish mine had. It's treating alcohol as if it's no more serious than having a second cookie that worries me. It kills people.
Last edited by FinsterRufus; 10-10-2013 at 04:42 PM..
Reason: Over not under.
One more thing, because this is a subject close to my heart and I don't want anybody to ever see their children go through what I and people I know have... it's really not about being hysterical, or alarmist.
A lot of people never get help because they've always been told it's possible to be a responsible adult drinker. And yes, of course it is. But that notion also prevents people from getting help until way too late in the process if they need it. Because they can't admit that's not how it is for them.
There's no weakness in being someone who's finding it difficult to control their drinking. Just encourage your children that if they ever feel worried about it, that they can't handle it, that it's causing problems in their lives or relationships, that they can always come to you and you will listen. Without judgment. A lot of people never get that until it's too late.
One more thing, because this is a subject close to my heart and I don't want anybody to ever see their children go through what I and people I know have... it's really not about being hysterical, or alarmist.
A lot of people never get help because they've always been told it's possible to be a responsible adult drinker. And yes, of course it is. But that notion also prevents people from getting help until way too late in the process if they need it. Because they can't admit that's not how it is for them.
There's no weakness in being someone who's finding it difficult to control their drinking. Just encourage your children that if they ever feel worried about it, that they can't handle it, that it's causing problems in their lives or relationships, that they can always come to you and you will listen. Without judgment. A lot of people never get that until it's too late.
I absolutely agree that the climate of alcohol in our society makes it difficult for afflicted sufferers. I agree without hesitation with your last paragraph.
I absolutely agree that the climate of alcohol in our society makes it difficult for afflicted sufferers. I agree without hesitation with your last paragraph.
I do think the constant hammering of the message "don't drink and drive" has had an impact on teens. I realize this is a loaded issue for many, but I'd rather teach my kids that drinking, in and of itself, can be done in moderation without getting drunk.
Somehow we've managed to get all our kids to the legal age without incident. We NEVER allowed underage drinking at our house by other kids. I've seen parents try to negotiate that tightrope as recently as last weekend. While looking for something in my friend's basement, we found 5 cases of beer hidden. That night was homecoming for the high school. Since nobody was going to be driving, my friend didn't confiscate it. I left it up to her, but I was really conflicted. If kids are going to drink anyway ( and I did), is it safer to let them do it in a controlled setting?
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Originally Posted by Zimbochick
I used to think so, but I do know of a girl who attended such a party. She got totally drunk and decided to get some air, and staggered into the path of an oncoming car driven by a sober 18 year-old college student. A huge double tragedy.
It seems to me there's nothing too "controlled" about kids drinking 5 cases of beer at a party. That is 120 cans. Even if there are 12 people at the party, that's 10 cans a person, 5/person if there are 24 people there. Such incidents as Zimbo described have happened in my area, too. Then there are the rapes, such as happened in Stuebenville, OH last summer.
It was actually more like 50 kids, as I found out after the fact. I wouldn't have been okay with it, but it wasn't my son, and not my decision. In this case, the kids had rented a bus, and were all spending the night at one house, so I guess the parents were aware of the drinking.
I would never have allowed it, but other parents do.
I think there's an in between. You can talk to your kids about it, the pros and cons, without allowing them to do it until they're legally able and hopefully somewhat responsible.
I mean, does one give a child a small taste of heroin just to make sure you take the mystery out of it?
I agree. Most of the people I knew who were heavy drinkers in college were also allowed to drink as teens. The people who weren't allowed to didn't go crazy just because they were in college.
Those under 21 in our extended family would NEVER have asked to have a sip of alcohol at a family gathering (when most drinking occurs in our family), and only one person has an alcohol problem (she has many problems, though). Almost all of those people have graduated college and somehow managed to not go crazy while there. Drinking was modeled in a healthy fashion to us, and most of us didn't find it too mysterious or a "forbidden fruit". My belief is that seeing the adults around them have a healthy relationship with alcohol is more important than allowing children and teens to drink.
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