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Old 11-24-2007, 03:42 AM
 
Location: Camberville
11,397 posts, read 15,999,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnyDayNow View Post
Charolastra, did you adopt or are you adopted? (You said you almost had an aneurysm when reading that doglover's husband would not consider adoption.) For doglover's purposes, her husband's stance on adoption might be a good thing because that means he isn't willing to consider any means possible to be a parent. To me that says that there might be room for negotiation with him if doglover realizes that she doesn't want children after all. (Plus, it's not an unheard-of sentiment. I know someone whose husband has refused to consider adoption. It was either their own biological child or none at all, so it will be none because of infertility issues.)

It's just one of the issues I'm most passionate about- I wasn't adopted. My best friend was adopted by who I consider my second family after they chose not to do fertility treatments. She was already 3 years old when she was adopted which is around the age when the chance of being adopted falls off (most people want babies, not children). She wouldn't be this wonderful, gorgeous, intelligent person if she hadn't have been adopted. I also have many friends who were adopted as well, so ever since I was young I've known that adoption and fostering were in my future. Within the first few dates of a guy, I try to feel him out on the issue (not in a creepy "so do you want kids in the next few years" type way... just asking about background and family and such) and if I find that the guy wouldn't consider adoption, that's endgame. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who wouldn't consider adoption who are wonderful, but it's really hard for me to wrap my head around the notion.
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Old 11-25-2007, 05:41 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,064,188 times
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I'm 55, had my tubes tied at 23 and have never regretted a day of it. Having children is not for everyone. Not by any remote stretch of the imagination.

Talk with your husband. This is truly a deal-breaker. You both need to get on with your lives with others, if necessary, if you can't come to a decision that works for both of you. Do not have a child because your spouse wants it; you may end up resenting it and him.

Good luck with your decision.
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Old 11-25-2007, 06:37 AM
 
1 posts, read 3,720 times
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After 9 years of marriage and one child, I can tell you that if you don't get counseling, the chances for resentment are strong.

This subject is very close to heart - I actually deleted the soliloquy, I'd written, as I realized that it wasn't necessary, but please, consider counseling. It may be the only way to keep your marriage together.
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Old 11-30-2007, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Santa Barbara
1,474 posts, read 2,585,630 times
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Default My take on it....

My husband and I are childfree by choice but it took much soul searching to finally admit it. You know life script and all. It sounds to me like you do not want kids but are feeling guilty because he does. The way I look at it is the "no" vote in whether or not to have children should always win even if that means the relationship is over. You cannot make someone "want" to be a parent. Not only will the partner who was forced to be a parent suffer, the child will suffer as well. Kids deserve to be wanted by both parents. It all boils down to whether or not your husband wants a child more than he wants to be married to you. If that is the case, you are better off finding someone who will appreciate you and everything about you while giving him the freedom to find a person to have children with. Let's say you decide not to have a biological child but change your mind, there are many children that need homes out there and you can adopt after your biological clock is on permanent snooze. It is very liberating finally allowing myself to realize that I don't HAVE to be a parent. I think it would be awful to have a child simply to placate your partner's need to have a biological offspring. In the end, you would resent him BIG TIME! Is he willing to quit his job and put his life on hold to raise hypothetical baby? If so, would that change anything? Take some time reading newsgroups dedicated to pregnancy and childrearing. If you run away screaming, parenthood is not for you
J
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Old 11-30-2007, 10:25 PM
 
662 posts, read 5,149,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jillz View Post
The way I look at it is the "no" vote in whether or not to have children should always win even if that means the relationship is over.
I actually disagree with this. I think the yes vote re: this issue should always win. His desire to be a parent is stronger than my desire not to be, thus, he should win. My desire not to have children is mainly that I do not want to be pregnant or give birth. I find the idea of both to be terrifying, and something I personally have absolutely no desire to experience. That's why I'm enthusiastic about adopting--I think it's a win-win situation for both of us, since he wants kids and I want to wait until my late 30's/early 40's. However, he does not want to adopt because his family had a very negative experience with adoption (his sibling) and so he is very negative about the idea of adopting.

We haven't yet made a decision on this but we did have a big talk and I showed him this thread and we read it together. He said that no matter what the outcome, he will not leave me. He and I were both shocked by the large number of people saying that this issue is a deal-breaker. We think that people divorce way too easily--and we believe that having children is definitely not a deal-breaker. We don't understand how and why it would be.

We have an absolutely wonderful relationship that both of us are 100% committed to, even if that means I give in and have a child even though I'm not ready or he is willing to give up his dream of being a parent.

I have spent lots of time on pregnancy and child-raising forums, and while I'm still terrified of pregnancy and cannot imagine myself pregnant, I know I would be sad deep down if we did not have children ever. However, at the same time, I'm not ready for them now and I doubt I will be in a few years, even. So we decided to wait two years before revisiting the issue. We both think that's fair given that we're in such a transitional period right now.
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Old 12-01-2007, 12:45 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
2,657 posts, read 7,004,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doglover29 View Post
We think that people divorce way too easily--and we believe that having children is definitely not a deal-breaker. We don't understand how and why it would be.
It's good that this thread brought about a conversation and something of a resolution for you both, much luck on your future decision.

A little bit of advice though, from a CF person. Should you associate with someone - single or coupled - who does express the view that the decision to have a child is a deal breaker, accept it. For some of us, kids are just not going to happen. Period. We base our committed relationships on that factor, saying "the right person for me is one who does not want kids." There's nooo talk, mediation, or giving in (that's a particularly repellent thought to me) about it. And, should one partner change their mind, and be firm about wanting kids after all, then *pfft*, the relationship is done. No matter the hurt caused by the ending of that relationship, some people are just absolutely true to the way they are.
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Old 12-01-2007, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Santa Barbara
1,474 posts, read 2,585,630 times
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I actually disagree with this. I think the yes vote re: this issue should always win. His desire to be a parent is stronger than my desire not to be, thus, he should win.

Cool if you feel that way but this is a sure fire way to fuel resentment in a marriage. You have not been married that long nor does it sound like you really got into the nitty gritty of combining your lives concering wants/needs/non-negotiables. Having been married for over 17 years, I think I can safely say that making ANY decision that both parties aren't in full agreement on is a one way route to divorce. I know I would rather be single than be forced to live the rest of my life parenting a child I wasn't really that into having. It isn't like a handbag that you can stick in your closet when you are done with it or lose interest or realize that it just doesn't work for you. Ambivlence regarding children means that you are not ready to be a parent and quit worrying about your age. Are you ready or not? Your husband needs to see that not all adoption's are bad and if he wants to be a parent THAT BADLY, isn't any child better than none? He seems a bit controling by insisting that not only the child be biological but that it happen on HIS timeline. When he has a uterus, it can be his decision to make. By the way, I would be telling a man the same thing if he was ambivalent and the woman was insisting on procreating without him being totally into it.
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Old 12-01-2007, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Boise / Eagle, Idaho
306 posts, read 1,100,496 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jillz View Post
.... I know I would rather be single than be forced to live the rest of my life parenting a child I wasn't really that into having.
But since you've never had a child you can't possible know how your heart opens up to a child you gave birth to with someone you love. You can't know what a profound life altering experience that is and how attitudes change. You can scream at the top of your lungs that you are 100% ... but you don't have that knowledge because you have not gone through it. I have ... childfree life on purpose ... now two children - one oops, one on purpose. Life changed as did my attitude. No resentment here, just a great awareness of how profound life is. The big picture is crystal clear. It's not just about ME, nor should it be.

Did you ever dislike a food when you were younger and say ewwww, I'll never eat that, only to love it later in life?
Did you like to play a sport you now loath? do you watch movies or read books that were boring earlier in life ... the newpaper maybe?
Was there a man or friend you thought you couldn't live without and now you can't remember their last name?
Things change when you least expect it. Life, and giving life, is funny that way.
As the commericals say ... "you may THINK you know that you'd resent the child, but in reality you have NO idea..."

Quote:
Ambivlence regarding children means that you are not ready to be a parent and quit worrying about your age.
Wrong. Ambivalence defined is simultaneous and contradictory attitudes or feelings (as attraction and repulsion) toward an object, person, or action.
It means a person is undecided ... it does not mean, NO. And furthermore, she should be worried about her age is she is even contemplating the possibility of fertility.
AGE is an issue, period. Like it or not. Those who deny or ignore this fact are often in for a sad and rude awakening.

Quote:
He seems a bit controling by insisting that not only the child be biological.
It's not a crime to want a biological child ... yes it may be egotistical ... but many people want a piece of their genetics to live on ... they like to see children that look like them ... That is not a crime or a bad thing ... its just his desire, just like its her desire to adopt ... one way is not BETTER than another. They are just different. Adoption requires a lot of jumping through hoops, cash and for many heartache. Biological children can sometime just mean having more really yummy sex with the one you love - if you are blessed enough to conceive naturally. Just my long winded two cents.

Last edited by AlleyTD; 12-01-2007 at 06:51 PM..
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Old 12-01-2007, 07:58 PM
 
Location: SC
14 posts, read 58,427 times
Reputation: 12
I think what people are trying to say is that if you don't want kids or are not ready for kids at this time, the no vote should win. The whole pregnancy issue didn't seem to come out until recently. If you don't want to have kids now, then wait a few years. Don't have kids now just because he wants them to. You may end up resenting your husband or worse your child and that is no way for a child to live and not a gamble to take because you just won't know until it happens. I don't normally like to do this but I am going to quote Dr. Phil. A child should never be brought into this world with a job. In your case, you would be having a child before you are ready to appease your husband. That is clearly not fair on the child.

Now if you are just squeamish about the pregnancy part but willing to go through it anyway, well that is COMPLETELY different from what seemed to be the issue in the beginning of this thread. Trust me I was very scared about pregnancy and labor and delivery. That is until the day I found out I was pregnant. Once I knew for sure and knew that I didn't have a choice in the matter I just dealt with it as it came. Lucklily I didn't have morning sickness and had a relatively easy delivery and a very short labor.

I know exactly where you are. I started dating my husband when I was 22 and knew from the beginning that he wanted several kids. It was very important to him even while we were both still in college. I always thought I wanted kids but it was the same sort of thing as you. Of course I didn't want them then but figured I would want them later on. Fast forward a few years. We got married when I was 25 and then we still didn't have kids at 28. It still wasn't a major issue yet for us but then we had an oops. I cried when I took the pregnancy test and he was so excitied. After the initial shock I started to get excited about it. You just won't really know until it happens to you.

I am still not a baby kind of person. I don't go goo-goo and ga-ga over them. I am not the one that all the kids go drifting to. I don't think that tells you whether or not you will be a good parent or not.
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Old 12-01-2007, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Santa Barbara
1,474 posts, read 2,585,630 times
Reputation: 942
But since you've never had a child you can't possible know how your heart opens up to a child you gave birth to with someone you love. You can't know what a profound life altering experience that is and how attitudes change. You can scream at the top of your lungs that you are 100% ... but you don't have that knowledge because you have not gone through it. I have ... childfree life on purpose ... now two children - one oops, one on purpose. Life changed as did my attitude. No resentment here, just a great awareness of how profound life is.

And I am never gonna either. Had my tubes tied several years ago and it was the best decision I made. In my estimation you were never childfree just childless. Someone who REALLY doesn't want kids isn't going to change their mind just because they got pregnant.

Did you ever dislike a food when you were younger and say ewwww, I'll never eat that, only to love it later in life?
Did you like to play a sport you now loath? do you watch movies or read books that were boring earlier in life ... the newpaper maybe?
Was there a man or friend you thought you couldn't live without and now you can't remember their last name?
Things change when you least expect it. Life, and giving life, is funny that way.

Of course I have had my taste in food change as well as my hobbies. Likening these sorts of changes to changing ones mind about kids is silly. People seem to spend more time thinking about what car to buy, where to go on vacation, or other random things than they seem to spend thinking about kids and when to have them. At least with a car, you can sell it if you decide you do not like it. The law frowns on this sort of thing in regards to children...


As the commericals say ... "you may THINK you know that you'd resent the child, but in reality you have NO idea..."

Just as you (generic you) have no idea that you WOULDN'T resent the child. Kids deserve the chance to live with parents that truly want them and not have parents that were talked into it by the other parent.



Wrong. Ambivalence defined is simultaneous and contradictory attitudes or feelings (as attraction and repulsion) toward an object, person, or action.
It means a person is undecided ... it does not mean, NO. And furthermore, she should be worried about her age is she is even contemplating the possibility of fertility.
AGE is an issue, period. Like it or not. Those who deny or ignore this fact are often in for a sad and rude awakening.

I am not wrong that one ought to wait to have kids until the ambivalence is gone. Doesn't a child DESERVE to be wanted more than anything? Anything that is repulsive (even if there is a slight attraction as well) needs to be worked out and no longer be repulsive BEFORE acting on it. Do you REALLY think someone should have a child when ambivalent? What if the repulsion part won out and the kids was here?



Biological children can sometime just mean having more really yummy sex with the one you love -

Think of all the yummy sex one can have without even trying for a baby!
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