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Old 12-19-2007, 10:51 PM
3,107 posts, read 8,128,262 times
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Originally Posted by brightdoglover View Post
What is all this hoo-hah about "the family name?" We're not English lords, for heaven's sake. At least I'm not.
I got sooo sick of hearing "the family name" from my father while growing up. Not only was I responsible to my father's family name but also my mother's! What's even funnier is that I can't think of anyone in my family who has had such a huge impact on society that I or any of my relatives had a name we just had to live up to. LOL - it's not like we are Kennedys or Vanderbilts or Windsors. We're just regular people. But in old cultures, the family name is everything and my father is a product of that older generation/older culture.

But to the latest subject, I am all for having children BUT only if it's something that both parties are in agreement to! I don't think every marriage needs to have children to be a fulfilled marriage. For my husband & I, it is the missing piece to an otherwise wonderful marriage. But it's not for every marriage or every couple or even, every individual.
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Old 12-20-2007, 12:46 PM
Location: The 719
14,140 posts, read 21,978,597 times
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Good topic. I believe that the text book approach would be to hammer all this down before you get too serious and while you're not married yet. If you're definately sure you don't want kids ever, then find a spouse who feels the same way.

If you're not sure and you go and get married anyway, then the both of you should be willing and able to raise a child. Also be thankful that it was done for you.

Now, in the real world... people change their mind as they grow older. I hear that women from 35 on are at risk and should be willing to expect possible complications. I know of two families who decided to have children after 40. In both cases, a miscarriage was the result on the first go around. They tried again, and were successful.

Also in the real world, if one spouse is adamant about having children and the other is adamant about NOT having children, then by all means- get a divorce. I give you permission to do so and will ask GOD to absolve you of all guilt and remorse. It's better this way for the children if nothing else. If nothing else, I'd always put the child's needs over the parents'.
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Old 12-21-2007, 02:01 AM
Location: North Carolina
2,657 posts, read 7,097,548 times
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Originally Posted by brightdoglover View Post
What is all this hoo-hah about "the family name?" We're not English lords, for heaven's sake. At least I'm not.
*snort* Really

According to a family member who tracks such things, only 200-something people in the US have the same last name as my spouse. When they mentioned that at a family gathering, the consensus opinion was "really? well, that's interesting." I suppose because the last couple of generations have run high to sons, those family members don't concern themselves that much, but you never know when the X and Y chromosomes may flip-flop and all-of-a-sudden it's nothing but batches of girls. Still, no one in the family has made it their mission to keep the family name going.

To marriageandkid: your husband started out agreeing with your view to not have children -

We discussed this before we got married and he knew I didn’t want to have a kid and agreed not to have kids.
Then, it turns out he actually lied -

He always wanted to have kids but he thought I would change my mind as time goes on.
And he's using threats to try to force you to his side -

wants to have kids now or wants to divorce over me.
Not to mention that it sounds like his family is making life hell for you -

His parents also insist that I should divorce if I don’t want to have kids saying he is the only son in his family and I was trying to destroy their family name. They think I am abnormal saying all women born to be a mother and should become one. They were really mean to me even accused my parents as they did not persuade me to have a kid.
AND, to top it all off, you will be expected to not only be the breeding vessel who has to continue producing until the expected results are accomplished, you'll have the onerous duty of being the primary bread winner as well -

BTW, he wants a son, so we have to keep trying until we have a son. I am the one who works and pay bills… he still have long way to go to finish his school. I don’t know who can take care of the baby after all. All of them saying I could take maternity leave and come back to work so no need to worry about my career. We live in a small one bed room apt where I used to live when I was at school 4 years ago. With only one person’s income, we cannot even afford to move to two bedrooms apt.
You know, when you break it down, your husband sounds like a real rat bastard He's unworthy of your philosophy of marriage (which was a wonderful soliloquy, btw ). It sounds like you are facing a choice:
*submission to a life your husband initially said you wouldn't have to choose; one you well understand will be onerous for you

*going forward as a single woman, able to live life according to your own standards.

You speak of loving this man; how will you feel about him years down the road if you have kids you don't want - who knows how many before the Sacred Son comes along - as well as being worn down with the chores of being the mother to them (sure as eggs HE won't be the primary caregiver) and being the financial mainstay? Will you feel the same about him then, as you do now? It might be more fair to let him go find someone who wants to be the mother of his children, one who will love him as much after having who knows how many kids as she did when they first got together.

Last edited by silverwing; 12-21-2007 at 03:18 AM..
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Old 01-17-2008, 11:15 PM
1 posts, read 3,018 times
Reputation: 10
Default "Re"solution

First of all this definetly is an important decision, but it will be sorted out.
There are two important things that I understand from your posts:
1. You really don't want to have children.
2. You have a great marriage and are very compatible with your husband.
"We have a wonderful marriage--we have never argued or had disagreements about anything--we are so alike in our outlook on everything"

One thing can really help you through all this is acceptance. I know it sounds too simple and silly. But let me explain.

First of all you need to accept that you and your husband have conflicts. And accept in a way that you can respect his desire of having children and not associate it with his lack of knowledge with respect to (negatives of) children raising.

He might have the need to be educated and that is understandable. You should express this to him and maybe let him talk to his friends who are fathers rather than you telling him the negatives of children raising. Cause there might have a possibility that you are biased towards the negatives and you might need a little education yourself about the positives.

Like any other process children raising have their own positives and negatives. Both of you need to first know about them, from different sources, not just one. Then you need to sit down and talk about the possibilities and how they would work out. If you can come to a common decision, great. If not you need to separate so that don't create problems for the other person.

Now one thing you really need to understand in the process is that you can't have everything you want to have. You need to accept certain things. For example, either you decide to not to have kids and separate from your husband and accept that you have to separate or have kids, stay with him and accept the overhead of having kids. Either ways you need to accept your decision. And by acceptence I mean, own the decision. If you decide to have kids, own the decision and accept the staying-awake-nights, costs, no-freedom and still be able to be happy and love the kids. Or if its otherwise, you should be able to accept the fact you gave up a person you were so compatible with.

If I were you I will think twice on giving up a person I am so compatible with cause, believe its very hard to get an understanding and loving husband. And having children is not so bad as others might have told you or what you might have seen. Infact it teaches you a great deal of patience no career can ever teach you, if you can take it in the right way. And you can always talk upfront how things can work with your husband, with him taking equal responsibilities. Cause you can always crib, complaint, but it takes courage to accept and rectify things. And reading from your posts I am sure you can take it very well, Cause you can live-in with your husband peacefully and with no arguements. No two persons can be 100% compatible, and if its peaceful, you definetly are putting your share of efforts and understanding to the relation. And you can do the for the kid.

But one thing I would like to point out is that , it will be very hard for anyone to tell the benefits of child raising, cause you have to through it to be able to know it. Its like I can't tell you what sweetness is untill I give you something sweet to eat.

Good Luck!!
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Old 01-21-2008, 03:53 PM
13,032 posts, read 13,431,478 times
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Sounds like a deal breaker to me, and has been for everyone I've ever met in this situation over the decades. Whoever "gives in" to the other is at some point going to feel resentment, hurt, and it erodes and destroys the relationship.

I've known one friend who got pregnant on the sly, not a recipe for either a happy marriage or a devoted father, they are all miserable. Another "gave up" her desire to have children to keep hubby, she ended up pretty miserable and hollow feeling too.

It's less about kids one way or the other....and more about what you give up or make yourself into, to try to please another person, to get them to stay with you. It is a recipe for resentment and misery.
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Old 04-28-2008, 11:52 AM
1 posts, read 2,933 times
Reputation: 10
WOW! This is almost the identical situation I'm in except for the fact that I'm not married, was engaged, but having rugrats was the dealbreaker, (just found this out after 3 years.) We've tried therapy, talking things out, etc. and sadly nothing has worked.

I wish I had some sound advice for you, but as I'm in the same situation, it's hard to say. I really am resentful of the fact that my ex-fiance chooses to objectify me as a uterus with legs...like there's no other reason for us to be together than to propegate. At this point I've decided to move out, (we share a beautiful home together). It will be hard, but I've got to stick to my guns on this topic. There's nothing worse than bringing life into this world if you're not committed to it 100%.

I wish you all the best....stay strong!
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Old 05-27-2008, 09:53 PM
18 posts, read 27,299 times
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Default reply for Doglover29

Doglover29: my husband and I are in the same situation as you. We're both in our early 30's and have been married for 7 years. My husband has always been ready for children. Early in our relationship, I put the brakes on and said that we need to wait for a few years until we are settled and he was fine with that. Like you, I really thought that a strong maternal urge would hit when I reached 30, but now that I'm 33, still no baby fever. As was so eloquently said before, it was always something that seemed far off on the horizon. The notion of motherhood still does not appeal to me. I enjoy my work, I enjoy my fine arts and design cottage business, I enjoy my freedom and the option of sleeping in on weekends. I am following my now late mother's advice to "think LONG and HARD before you have children because one thing is certain- from then on it's yours". I have watched each of my older brothers' marriages struggle after children came into the picture, and these are people who were sure they wanted to have children! I may be a little biased, but I think that since the woman is almost always the one who sacrifices the most, she should have most of the say in whether or not to have children.

I am annoyed by the replies that point out that this issue "should have been resolved before marriage". In a perfect world, maybe. But it is not a perfect world. People are human, and they do change their minds.

I really wanted to reply to this quote about French writer Maier's book from another thread, but the thread is now closed, so I'll repost it here:

"Seems she feels that French women are encouraged to have children and that this is somehow keeping women down in society.
I consider myself to be a feminist, but don't at all agree that maternity leave and child benefits is opression. I mean, no-one is FORCING women to have kids. The government isn't mandating that all French women must have at least 2 children (now the national average). Seems a bit of an extreme kind of view to me."

I don't know if the person who posted that has spent any time in Europe, but I lived in Scandinavia for 5 years and I definitely encountered a very different mentality towards parenthood than is generally found here in the USA. I think that most European countries still have a mentality that having children is a civic duty rather than a personal choice, so I can see Maier's point and I wouldn't call it extreme. In fact, in Finland, the country where I lived, I read articles about how "you can't trust women who choose not to have children" because it is a sign of selfishness and greed, two qualities which are threatening to the conformist socialist system. But, no matter how many socialist bennies there are, it cannot turn an unwanted and unloved child into a wanted and loved one. In fact, there is currently controversy in Finland over stay-at-home mothers who still want to put at least one of their children in state-funded daycare to ease their burden at home (so the sparkling clean bathroom will stay that way for a few extra hours)....which suggests that some women are not thinking carefully enough about whether they can handle motherhood. So, no of course European women are not being fined and imprisoned for not having children, but they ARE being scorned and criticized in a way by society. Is that the same thing as being "forced"? Well, societal pressure can be very powerful, and I think all Maier is trying to do is to get women to think and to realize that they do have a choice.

Good that this very important topic is starting to be openly discussed!
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Old 09-01-2008, 08:23 AM
1 posts, read 2,829 times
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Unhappy this sucks

Originally Posted by Catgirl1976 View Post
WOW! This is almost the identical situation I'm in except for the fact that I'm not married, was engaged, but having rugrats was the dealbreaker, (just found this out after 3 years.) We've tried therapy, talking things out, etc. and sadly nothing has worked.
At least you didn't get married. I was very clear with my husband, right from the beginning, that kids were not happening. He was fine with it... At least to my face. He then told his mom that he hoped I would change my mind. She told him that I would. Then she told me what he said and that she told him I would change my mind. This all happened about a month before the wedding. I brought it up to him, and he basically didn't want to talk about it, claimed it wasn't a big deal. I said to him then - I don't want this to come up 10 years from now and be a big issue. Well, I didn't have to wait 10 years. Only 7. Is it my fault he believed his mommy? (I was VERY up front.) He now claims he didn't have a choice at the time. That is not correct the way I see it. The choice was me or kids (and it would seem we are back to that again). We have had a wonderful relationship to this point, other than this. We are spontaneous fun people. We fly by the seat of our pants. I like it that way. I don't want my marriage to end but I don't want kids at all. We talked about it Saturday, he got mad and we pretty much haven't spoken since. My stomach is a wreck, but I don't know what to say to him anymore. I kind of feel like he has no right to be mad at me, I was the honest one way back when. I know we need to talk and I will cry a lot more before this is over. I am just at a loss.
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Old 09-01-2008, 09:36 PM
Location: somewhere
4,264 posts, read 8,050,791 times
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Originally Posted by doglover29 View Post
What do you do when one spouse wants kids and the other doesn't? My husband and I are in our late 20's/early 30's and have been married several years, and been together for 7. My husband wants kids and I do not. I've never had the desire to have kids, but when we were dating it never was an issue b/c I was in my early 20's then, and I figured by the time I turned 30 my feelings about having children would change. However, they haven't and now that the clock is starting to tick it's becoming an issue. My husband wants to start having kids soon, and I am nowhere near ready. I would prefer to wait another 5 years before revisiting the issue, and then see how I feel in terms of readiness. I'm also very open about the idea of adoption, but he is very insistent about having biological kids.

My reasons for not wanting to have kids are several. One is that I have never felt the "baby itch" and have never desired to have kids. I don't feel that my life is incomplete without children, and I feel strongly that one can be fulfilled without kids. Also, I don't want to give up my career and want to work full-time, so since my husband also wants to work full-time we would need a nanny. Furthermore, I just don't feel ready psychologically to have kids. And I also have no desire to go through pregnancy and childbirth, nor do I have any interest in breastfeeding. And last, I just have very little experience with children. I was an only child, and the last time I was around little kids was about 20 years ago when my cousins were young children. I don't have any pregnant friends or friends with kids, so I'm never around kids. And I guess overall I just don't feel any maternal feelings. I thought they would have been there by now but they're not.

I don't know what to do. This is a huge issue not to be on the same page about. One of us has to give in. Either I give in and have kids, and have them before I want them/am ready for them or he gives in and doesn't have kids and feels resentful about that. He understands that since neither one of us is willing to stay home we need to have a nanny, and he's ok with that.

Anyone in a similar situation or have any thoughts?
You say you are very open to adoption but not biological. It doesn't seem to me from your post that you are not ready for children, just not ready for pregnancy and all it entails. All the reasons you give for not wanting kids would be the same be the kids adopted or biological. This is something that every couple should discuss before marriage and if in your early 20's you're not real sure than go into the relationship saying you don't want kids. What will this do to your marriage if you get pregnant or what would it do to your marraige if you refuse?
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Old 09-02-2008, 07:09 AM
Location: North Carolina
2,657 posts, read 7,097,548 times
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Originally Posted by roxcoel View Post
At least you didn't get married. I was very clear with my husband, right from the beginning, that kids were not happening. He was fine with it... At least to my face. <snip> I don't want my marriage to end but I don't want kids at all. We talked about it Saturday, he got mad and we pretty much haven't spoken since. My stomach is a wreck, but I don't know what to say to him anymore. I kind of feel like he has no right to be mad at me, I was the honest one way back when. I know we need to talk and I will cry a lot more before this is over. I am just at a loss.
It sounds like he's been a fence-sitter all along - willing to go along with your CF stance to get you to marry him, then figuring he could bully or manipulate you if he settled on the childed option down the road. Wretch

Your resolve sounds firm. Have you checked any of the childfree boards? There is quite a bit of support on this board, but it's interspersed with squishy emoting about the joys of children Maybe you need a place where your opinions and feelings are totally validated. There are some pretty fierce places where CFs meet; I'd rather steer you toward one where moderate opinions exist. Check your inbox for a link.
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