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Try positive encouragining and awarding methods instead then. What is what she most appreciate and wants? What is her motivator and carrier? Try them
And when someone has learning disability (different types, what type is hers?) it often means more work but also rest has to be in balance with it = more resting after more working. Short periods could work? 30 minutes studying, 20-30 minutes brain rest, then 30 minutes studying again, rest - repeat. Make sure you don't punish her of things which are connection with disability. Make sure she does not try too much and stress with studyings, she needs all her energy for studying and not stressing if she is going to make it or not.
What comes to lying she does not have to lie if you 2 can agree when you disagree = she does not try to avoid your preaching by lying. Kids have to trust their parents that strong they are able to tell WORSE news without fear = no need for lying.
DD is 11, has a slight learning disability but is very sweet and mostly hard working even though she struggles in school. Pre teen defiance has raised it's ugly head. We've had troubles with her not emptying her lunch box or book bag when she comes home from school. She sometimes "forgets" to give us notes from her teacher and vice versa. We find rotten bananas in her book bag. Now she is required to put her book bag at my feet when she comes home so we don't miss anything. She was punished with 2 weeks of no screen time-computer, TV, Wii after this particular issue ended up with our missing something really important. Then it was expanded to 3 weeks when her sister found unfinished homework in the trash.
She takes her punishment without complaint. I decided to make it a permanent policy that she hasno TV or computer or Wii during the week and very limited on the weekend and during breaks and to go to the reward system. When I catch her doing something particularly worthy I call her to me and give her back some of her beloved screen time. She likes that.
I detest potato chips. I think they are unhealthy but she likes them a lot. Her father does most of the grocery shopping and he buys them cause he likes them with a sandwich. I limited her to chips with a sandwich at lunch time but not at snack time when I always have fresh fruit available. Yesterday I saw her at the table doing her homework and asked her what she was having for snack. She told me grapes. Fine. She goes to the bathroom and I check her homework only to find a bowl of chips. I picked them up, put them in the trash and told her how disappointed i was not only in getting the chips but mainly for telling me a lie. I couldn't even talk to her anymore and left the room. Two hours later she asked if she could go outside to play ball with the dog and I asked her if she had finished her homework. She said yes. She played and then about 30 minutes before bedtime I asked her if she was ready for reading when she told me she had to finish her homework. Another lie. 2 in about 4 hours.
DH is out of town for the first time in 3 weeks. Could that have anything to do with it? I'm grasping for straws here. Any suggestions? I've taken away what she loves the most-screen time and playing outside with the neighbor girl for a week as punishment for another lie last week.
Suggestions?
NK, try to remember she is likely not yet developmentally capable of understanding why lying is inherently wrong. When they are at that stage they lie to avoid conflict (and sometimes to get immediate gratification) but not to make you mad.
You might want to try reminding her when you ask her something to think about what the consequences might be if she lies and you find out. Get her to say that you would be really mad then. Lots of those "how do you think I would feel?" questions. Then if she changes her answer praise her for thinking it through.
^^sounds good in theory but she is supposed to empty her lunch box every day so we can wash the plastic containers we use for sandwiches and fruit. If she doesn't then there is nothing to use the next day for her and her sister.
have you ever smelled a rotten banana in a book bag? It wasn't even in her lunch bag. For one thing it is a waste of good food and for another thing I'm not going to buy her a new book bag cause her bag is ruined with rotten food.
We are not controlling. Do you think asking these things is controlling/ Really? She chooses her own clothes and shoes, hair style, makes her own lunch every day, chooses if she wants to walk to school or get a ride, whether or not to wear a jacket and all sorts of choices she has. But when her chices or lack of consideration means difficulty for the rest of the family or problems with her teacher and incomplete homework then believe me, I will take over.
Maybe have her, not her sister make her lunch as soon as she gets home from school.
I see/hear lots of "they" and "them" in your posts even though some of the issues pertain to one child. It may that their different needs require different methods. You know that the one child has some challenges and understand that she requires more help or supervision or alternate strategies academically, but it may very well be she requires those things in other areas as well. You might try touching base with teachers or other professionals who work with her and are knowlegeable regarding her (or her type of challenges) to discuss methodology.
I raised two girls who were only two weeks apart in age. Yes, they are different and having different expectations is acceptable. Not everyone learns things at the same age so parenting an 11 yo a certain way just because they are 11 makes zero sense.
You have a child OP, who still does not understand delayed gratification and consequences. Just saying let her suffer the consequences when she is not at a stage to truly connect the act to the consequence (and her lying about her homework demonstrates that) does her no good.
You should take a step back and figure out how to teach her delayed gratification. With the homework, teach her in tiny steps. At the beginning of homework, tell her if she does one subject she can play with the dog for ten minutes before she comes in to finish. If she does two tell her she can play for half an hour before finishing. Reason it through with her. This may require, sitting with her, while she does her homework which may seem like a step back.
Btw, weeks long punishments will not phase a child who cannot make connections just hours later. They are going yo be pointless and just frustrate you.
I think you are trying to control too many things and this may be about her rebelling and needing a little more freedom. That tends to happen around this age. I know you listed all the things she gets to choose... but come on... you are making her empty her bookbag out at your feet(?!) and dictating exactly what she gets for a snack. She's probably very resentful that she can't make some of the very basic choices her peers are getting to make.
I would decide which battles are worth fighting and let the others go, or find alternate solutions. If she keeps leaving rotten bananas in her bag, maybe she doesn't like bananas? Maybe you shouldn't pack them in her lunch. Maybe you should let her come to the store and pick out more things she wants for her lunch. If washing the lunchbox is a huge issue, could you reuse disposable bags from other sources for her lunches so she could throw them away? Or simply stop packing food that makes a mess?
I think being so micro-managey about what she eats for a snack goes too far with an eleven year old who isn't overweight. If her father gets the chips and eats the chips, they're in the house and I think it then becomes just another thing to control in her eyes. It has to stink for your daughter that she gets home and every little second of her time from what she can eat to how she empties her bag to what she does with her lunchbox to when she can see the dog to when she does homework is controlled. SOME of those things matter. The ones that don't? You need to ease up a little, IMHO.
I think that your punishment might be too excessive. For an 11-year old, you really should have the discipline fall within a 24 hour period of time if not less. The problem with taking privileges away weeks at a time is that you really don't have any leverage the next time she misbehaves other than taking away another week of privileges. When you take away privileges weeks at a time, the discipline becomes meaningless and ineffective primarily because learned helplessness develops.
A very effective discipline for lying is to ground your daughter to her bedroom or a secluded room of your home with a report to write, https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing. This report encourages kids to take responsibility for their behavior as well as help them consider appropriate alternative behaviors. This report is much different than writing sentences in that she needs to think about the questions before answering them. The discipline ends when she completes the report. Otherwise, she remains grounded. If the grounding lasts past 24 hours, this would be her choice and not hers. Therefore, learned helplessness would never develop. She should write a report per lying behavior. Of course, this report can be used for other misbehaviors other than lying.
That is so true. Out of 7 kids she is the only one with learning disabilities- in fact the only one not in gifted. I don't know how to deal with an average kid with learning disabilities. We have read books, talked to professionals and tried different ways of helping her. Old habits die hard. She has probably the sweetest disposition kids out of the 7 too. All her teachers consistently say they have never seen a kid try as hard as she does so it's not like we are dealing with a lazy or defiant kid. I feel so sorry for her and want to do the best for her. I found a great TED Talks about kids with grit which gave us so much hope. I will try to find it.
I started a new thread about IQ not being the only factor for success to get this TED Talks to as many as possible.
Kudzu, I hear ya loud and clear! I loved that TED talk and have spread it around myself. Part of most learning disabilities is lack of attention, staying on any task is even more compounded by this. I don't think you are being to controlling, I actually think you might not be controlling the right things. (which I find myself doing all the time with vigor) lol
It could be her attention to these things is simply lacking. You might find that some cognitive therapy in this area helpful, you can look it up and do it yourself. She might have a low self-esteem because of this and now is hiding it, (lying), without knowing why she herself can't remember these things. (although I tell my kids lying doesn't let me know they are having an issue, I'm sure you do as well)
Of course kids with learning issues will still be kids. lol My son has Tourettes but he still can lie, cheat and steal regardless. They don't become saints as a side effect of their problems. And yes, he will use his Tourettes as an excuse sometimes. I tell him the ole' "man with no legs still has to go to work, just might be a little harder" quote.
But, your child might not realize why they are failing at tasks. I'd dig deeper into it first, that way you are clear and won't feel so bad setting boundaries and goals. But, I agree with your concern, you can't just let them use it as an excuse to fail in life. You can't let them start craving bad attention. Practice is practice, regardless. I see you trying to set up practice, like piano lessons, baseball, etc. I agree with you on that. If kids practice and see their results they will then see although practicing is boring, it's the end results that are worth it.( I.E. - Grit ) Good study habits, organization skills, these are good things. We teach these, they don't always come installed. Unlike others, I wouldn't recommend stopping the lessons, just changing tactic.
I'm sure she feels the difference between the gifted and herself. But in reality there is not much of a difference. Like you said, that show about grit pretty much cleans the line. I have 3, the ones with grit do better regardless of I.Q. I had all my kids watch that show, some twice as their attention needed it. lol
Good luck, parenting is so challenging.
P.S. I have one that grounding has no effect on as well, she's a stone and a cute stone for that matter. What did work was having her be grounded to me for some homework practice. It worked on so many levels. First, I saw her issues and why she wasn't getting it done effectively and second it seemed to give her the big picture on why I cared. That I was willing to lose my time to get this right and that it was important. Of course, it was difficult to find the time but worked well. I'd change the banana to an orange for obvious reasons. lol
Thank you Somebody, Marlow and Swanlady. I will definitely try the book and soon.
Seems to me that you read too many books and watch too much TED already.
Frankly, I didn't have the patience to go through most of the thread because the earliest comments seemed to nail down the issue rather succinctly, namely, too much micromanagement and an inability to maturely pick your battles although I have to say that this set my behind on fire
Out of 7 kids she is the only one with learning disabilities- in fact the only one not in gifted. I don't know how to deal with an average kid with learning disabilities.
Has anyone suggested love? Every kid isn't going to be brilliant, nor is every kid going to be punctilious about cleaning out their book bag! And as far as I am concerned there are far, far greater crimes than sneaking potato chips!
How about just making sure that you greet your kid at the door when they come home from school and make it a pleasurable experience going through the bag before letting her go off on her own. Why not try to sit down with her and doing the homework together, you know something like showing 1 of 7 that she is more than just part of the collective.
And most importantly. STOP READING BOOKS AND TAKE THE TIME TO READ YOUR KID!
(please tell me that these aren't adopted children or that you adopted them later in life so that my prejudice against adopting mothers like my sister in law won't be reenforced... please).
I was thinking about your situation last night when I was trying to fall asleep.
We also have a family where academics is very important. Although, we don't dwell on it or brag about it high achievement seemed to be a naturally occurring topic over the years. Whether it was excitement that Cousin Susie was #1 in her HS class and a true valedictorian just like her Aunt Debbie. Or even though our parents only had an 8th grade education all four of their children graduated from our flagship top ranked, state University with honors such as Phi Beta Kappa, Phi Lambda Theta, & whatever the business equivalent is to top honors, plus all four of us graduating Magna *** Laude. Things like this were just common discussions around the table at holiday time with extended family.
The problem? In our immediate family the oldest, now a PhD, was an outstanding student while our youngest struggled a little. And when I say a little basically it was the difference between her brother taking multiple AP classes and she taking regular (above average) classes and getting As & Bs. She needed to study much longer and much harder than her brother and it really bothered her (although she never complained about it). We never pushed her but just encouraged her to do her best in whatever academic or extra-curricular activity that she was doing.
What we did not realize until years later was that she felt inside that she was a failure because she wasn't, as she put it later "at the level of the rest of the family". Another complication was that when college selection time came she absolutely, totally refused to apply to a "state college". She was accepted to a top ranked University in a nearby state, which in hindsight, was a poor choice as it would always be a struggle for her to keep up with her classmates.
She had hidden from us her feelings of low self-esteem due to feelings of academic inadequacy. If we would have realized that we would have helped guide her college choices more aggressively and not allowed her to go to a school which we knew could be a challenge. And turned out to be an enormous challenge.
No Kudzo, I'm just bringing up our story as it is possible that your daughter is feeling some of the same pressures and is unable to express them. You mentioned your high achieving family and the high achieving community where you live maybe your daughter is feeling much, more "different" and "out of place" than you realize. Maybe your family needs to discuss things with a therapist, just to make sure that you are all on the right track.
Good luck.
Last edited by germaine2626; 11-23-2013 at 10:05 AM..
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Unlike others, I wouldn't recommend stopping the lessons, just changing tactic. 
