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My daughter is dating a young man who not only comes to the door to pick her up and greet us, but also opens her car door, pulls her chair out at the table, and stands when she leaves to use the restroom. He is incredibly well-mannered for a teenager, and I think his mother has done an excellent job teaching him to be polite. (and I tell her that often)
It's all a front. You should see what he does when no one is watching! :shock:
I don't really understand the mindset. What is the purpose of the gender association of kindness and good manners? When we use symbols and rituals, they do oft demonstrate the attitudes of the person. Dating is romantic relationship practice. I would be more comfortable if my kids were dating in a context without the expectation of distinct male and female behavior roles. If my daughter dated a guy like this, I would watch carefully. Is he just a kid trying to figure this new dating thing? Well then he gets a smile and a nod. Does he see my daughter as a cool person he likes to hang out with with whom, perhaps, he is developing fluttery feelings? Rock on. (SLOWLY!) Or does he see her just as a girl, a member of a set of people the goal of which is simply to acquire? A token of passage? A device? THIS would the guy I would be most concerned would divide girls into categories, and I don't like that guy, even if he has categorized my daughter as the datable kind rather than the usable kind. This is the think that makes me fear the quid pro quo, the games.
Maybe I have these concerns, if they can be raised to that level, because I am far from inexperienced.
The same for my son. If he were to date a girl who was interested in this kind of symbolist ritual, I would ask myself WHY? What does she really want? Since that stuff is hardly necessary for the development of deeper feelings.
But then I live in NE.
The people who think that behavior is cute forget where it came from. Men opened the door for a woman because she was considered to weak(and many of them were literally breathless) and fragile to get in and out of vehicles while wearing all he petticoats, bustles, corsets, and so on. Ironically, the opening of a regular door was not typically done for women by their husbands but rather by someone actually paid to do it. Anyway, if you think it's a good idea to go back to a time when women had no rights and had to be given special treatment just to move about because the fashions dictated by the era literally required it, go nuts.
When I open my own door, I like to think I am showing my gratitude for all the rights my female predecessors have won for me. For my daughter, I always tell her to thank ANYONE who opens a door for her, but to remember it is a meaningless gesture unless it is assisting someone actually carrying something.
Well if a man shows clear gender assumptions its a possibility they might also have assumptions about a woman's "place"
Most men who treat women like ladies are trying to be polite. We have taught our sons to treat women like ladies so that they learn that women should be respected, not to teach them that women have some low "place."
This must be a regional thing. I have never heard of a "car date".
And to be honest, what you describe is not typical of most teens in the schools I teach at, or for my own children. For example, almost all of them hung out with the people they ended up going out with well before hand. Again, maybe regional.
You never heard of two kids going out to the movies together? Or to have a bite to eat? Or to the bowling alley? Or to a football game?
They don't typically refer to them as a car date but I think the poster who used the term was trying to differentiate the kind of date where two kids go out someplace in a car from the kind of social interaction where they spend time together in a group. Most of the time kids don't start going out together in cars until they are a bit older (16 or so) and I think that was what she was trying to say.
Most men who treat women like ladies are trying to be polite. We have taught our sons to treat women like ladies so that they learn that women should be respected, not to teach them that women have some low "place."
I wonder why they can't just be treated like people.
And I will repeat what I said, if you are waiting until they are leaving to go out on a "date" to meet the person, it is already too late and you have missed the opportunity to actually get to know the person. Maybe it is different where you live, maybe it has just changed quite a bit since your other children dated but it isn't the coming to the door that is "right" or "wrong" but rather the notion that people think that is the point at which to become involved in who their children are spending time with. The time for that is well beforehand.
I still think that if your child is getting in a car with another person it makes sense for the parents to get a look at the driver. For the most part you have to trust that your older teen is choosing friends wisely. However, they are still kids so I think it makes sense to see that a parent get a look at who the driver is. I think this is true whether kids are dating or just going out with friends. I only have boys but I still want to get a look at the driver so that if something happens I have a general description of the driver and where the kids are going.
I have to say that my middle son hangs out with kids that I have known for years so I haven't had to deal with this issue. My older son also hung out with kids I already knew. Some of them were pretty wild though and I used to insist that he drive when he went out.
Most men who treat women like ladies are trying to be polite. We have taught our sons to treat women like ladies so that they learn that women should be respected, not to teach them that women have some low "place."
Women don't have to be treated differently to be treated with respect. I am sure you raised your sons to be respectful of all people so why the need to make a special case of women?
That is the point. Ladies are very specifically female people. I don't understand the treatment distinction for female people.
Well when I bring home something that is heavy I really appreciate the help I get from my male family members who can carry it more easily than I can. Women and men are people but they are not exactly the same.
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