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Oh yes, that last part you just described definitely does NOT sound like feistiness.
This is tricky for you, because first you have to recognize which of the two (feisty/spirited versus stubborn/power struggle) he is engaging in, before you choose your response. For the former, you need to simply WORK WITH him. For the latter, you can redirect, or disengage, or be super firm, or a lot of other things.
An occasional trick I use with that is to tell my son to come upstairs so that we can have "a talk" when it's getting serious. That 10 seconds usually allows me to do some fast thinking about what is really going on, and pick my response.
It doesn't sound like he merely has OCD tendencies. OCD can be diagnosed at a much younger age than 7. The therapist you saw was wrong about that. Everything you're sharing points towards OCD and anxiety. His need for order intensifying when he is upset is a big clue. OCD gets worse when people are stressed.
Validating his need for order only ingrains it deeper. He needs to learn how to react differently to his obsessive thoughts to eliminate the compulsions. Appeasing his need for order isn't healthy. But you can't change that yourself. You don't have the education to do that. He needs ongoing treatment with a professional.
This is not a life for a child to go through without proper treatment. Quit dragging your feet. You can't parent this out of him. I hope when/if you start therapy that you become stronger so you're capable of following through on treatment. It's not going to be easy. There are going to be conflicts, and it's going to get worse before it gets better. For the sake of his future happiness, you have to be willing to step out of your comfort zone.
I'm not going to wait for you to answer about his having strep at a young age. I'm going to post this stuff now. I don't want to forget to share this information because I think it's very important to consider. It doesn't just mention OCD but rage too. It's a long shot, but if this is the problem, the solution is very simple. Even if you think he has never had strep, it's worth pursing. Seriously, read these links. All of them.
I'm not going to wait for you to answer about his having strep at a young age. I'm going to post this stuff now. I don't want to forget to share this information because I think it's very important to consider. It doesn't just mention OCD but rage too. It's a long shot, but if this is the problem, the solution is very simple. Even if you think he has never had strep, it's worth pursing. Seriously, read these links. All of them.
Thanks, I've heard about this before but I really doubt that's it. As I said it's more or less been his temperament since birth. He's never had strep or anything resembling the symptoms, only your regular common cold. I've actually heard it's extremely uncommon for children under the age of 4-5 to get strep in the first place, babies don't tend to get it.
I wouldn't say his obsessive tendencies are that severe on an every day basis. It used to be worse, now when he's in a good mood we can usually get around transitions, changes in routine, etc. They don't disrupt daily life, most of the time. It's only when he gets upset and melts down that he goes back into that mode. He doesn't do anything repetitively.
When reading the OCD links above though I've just now remembered that I used to have compulsive behaviours for a while when I was a kid, however they went away. My parents thought they were just tics, but I remember having some thought process behind them; like for a while I had this fear of a fire starting at night and would sniff the air for smoke repeatedly...then used to do some other superstitious type little gestures or twitches to prevent something bad happening. Gee, I sort of put that out my mind until now I've never gone on to develop full on OCD though...
It's kinda funny, thinking about myself, I was actually a fairly anxious and fearful kid...just unlike DS I've sort of held all that inside and didn't express it through acting out. But by the time I hit the tweens and teens I became too preoccupied with all the teen angst and drama and the anxieties sort of went away, and I was very chill and laid-back all through my teens and twenties...and now with having DS, all these anxieties suddenly came back, especially when raising him proved to be so challenging...
I was always a little skeptical about the strep throat thing, but I have to say that our son had strep for the first time in early February and for about 3 weeks afterwards he was quite manic, to the point that our psychologist floated the idea for the first time that it might be worth thinking about medication, at least in the short term, while we figured out how to handle the change in him. That wasn't a path we wanted to go down and thankfully it did tail off, but OMG, it was really bad. I didn't make the connection with strep until close to the end of his "episode" but I feel pretty certain that it exacerbated many of the things he struggles with.
Thanks, I've heard about this before but I really doubt that's it. As I said it's more or less been his temperament since birth. He's never had strep or anything resembling the symptoms, only your regular common cold. I've actually heard it's extremely uncommon for children under the age of 4-5 to get strep in the first place, babies don't tend to get it.
That's not true that babies don't get strep. Mine children got it all the time. Strep isn't just a sore throat. Strep can infect any part of the body. Ear infections can be strep. They can test your son for strep. Some people are carriers without symptoms. They can also test for antibodies. It's worth checking out. Think about it. If he has the antibodies, he has never been treated for strep since you claim he has never had it. It's worth a shot. I can't hurt to look into it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilCookie
When reading the OCD links above though I've just now remembered that I used to have compulsive behaviours for a while when I was a kid, however they went away. My parents thought they were just tics, but I remember having some thought process behind them; like for a while I had this fear of a fire starting at night and would sniff the air for smoke repeatedly...then used to do some other superstitious type little gestures or twitches to prevent something bad happening. Gee, I sort of put that out my mind until now I've never gone on to develop full on OCD though.
It's kinda funny, thinking about myself, I was actually a fairly anxious and fearful kid...just unlike DS I've sort of held all that inside and didn't express it through acting out. But by the time I hit the tweens and teens I became too preoccupied with all the teen angst and drama and the anxieties sort of went away, and I was very chill and laid-back all through my teens and twenties...and now with having DS, all these anxieties suddenly came back, especially when raising him proved to be so challenging...
Just because it temporarily went away for you doesn't mean it will for your son without professional help to learn the coping skills. Your anxiety comes out during high periods of stress. Your being stressed as a parent is stressful for your son. If he doesn't hit a period in his teens where he relieves the stress, and teen years are usually when stress is higher for children and when anxiety usually rears its ugly head.
I was always a little skeptical about the strep throat thing, but I have to say that our son had strep for the first time in early February and for about 3 weeks afterwards he was quite manic, to the point that our psychologist floated the idea for the first time that it might be worth thinking about medication, at least in the short term, while we figured out how to handle the change in him. That wasn't a path we wanted to go down and thankfully it did tail off, but OMG, it was really bad. I didn't make the connection with strep until close to the end of his "episode" but I feel pretty certain that it exacerbated many of the things he struggles with.
One of the articles I read last night says the symptoms can wax and wane and resurface or get worse after each subsequent strep infection. Apparently the treatment isn't a normal round of antibiotics. In that last link it says one patient was on antibiotics for 5 months. It seemed to imply one was on for a few years. Every time they have a new strep infection, they'll need to be treated again. They're starting to research whether prophylactic antibiotics are appropriate.
I was skeptical too even though my sister who has OCD always claimed it started after she had mono. She's almost 60 now. She was claiming this decades before this information was publicized. Mono is a different bacteria but some people get strep with mono at the same time. She might be right.
Now I'm starting to wonder about my own young adult child who has anxiety. There were multiple ear infections during the first year until tubes were inserted, and there were many strep infections throughout the years. The most notable was a croup attack at 11 years old that was so severe we had to go to the ER. Afterwards severe anxiety developed suddenly. We ended up in psych ward for panic attacks. They were that bad. Never before was there anxiety until that infection.
If strep is the cause or at least contributed to it, I assumed it was too late last night until I read that last article. Everything talks about treatment in children. Nobody has tried to treat young adults. I thought it needed to be caught shortly after the strep infection for the treatment to work. But that last article says a teenager was treated with antibiotics after having OCD symptoms for 10 years. Thankfully, our doctor is a scientist, researcher and teaches at a teaching hospital. He will be game for trying something that's never been done before. I'm going to copy off what I found and send it to him for consideration so he has time to research it and make a decision before his next appointment with my child. I'm thinking we can at least try. My theory is "what can it hurt?"
As the title says, I'm just at my wits end with out 4 year old son.
Here are a few examples of his stubborn-headedness:
- refused to change out of pyjamas and get dressed to go to the park and pool. We told him if he doesn't get dressed we can't go. Started wailing but still didn't get dressed. Gave him several chances to change his mind. In the end, we didn't go, he spent two hours in his room crying, yet still didn't get dressed
- last two years he had a thing with not wanting to wear short sleeves after wearing long ones all winter. We finally got him over it last summer and he's worn them fine; now this year, he remembered the same thing again. Last weekend got suddenly quite hot and I pulled out a T-shirt. Of course he refused to wear it. Told him it's too hot for long sleeves, and that he can choose a t-shirt he wants, but I'm putting all the long-sleeves away. Promised him an ice cream if he wears it, said we'll take a long-sleeved with us in case it gets cold, and we'll put it on after 5 pm, etc etc. He just kept repeating no. After running through the whole house naked, sobbing and looking for the long sleeved tops everywhere, he finally dug out a winter fleece top and put that on Finally I compromised to let him wear a t-shirt with an open zip-up on top, hoping I'll get it off of him later. Nope, he wouldn't take it off in spite of the heat, and even when the ice cream truck was there and we tried to get him to take it off in exchange for ice cream, he wouldn't do it. Cried that he wants ice cream but still wouldn't.
- Just now, refused to lie down for a bit of a 'quiet time' rest, even though he got up early and is clearly exhausted, rubbing his eyes, yawning every second, lying down on the floor. I begged him to just lie down for a little bit, said he didn't have to sleep, just rest for 30 minutes, and then he can watch TV; otherwise he won't be able to. He said he will at first, just after playing for a bit, but of course once play time was up - Nope, "no I don't want to", over and over and over again like a broken record. Oh and you should've seen him sighing and rolling his eyes worse than any teenager. After half an hour of pleading I finally gave up, said he's not getting TV today and that I'm going to rest myself and going to my room, not playing with him, not talking, and he gets no treats for the rest of the day. Took away the remote, went off and shut the door, I was so pissed. Which is where I am now, in tears because I just feel I have zero influence over his behaviour. What the hell are we going to do when he's 14, not 4?? I'm lost. Help!!!
Sounds like my 9-month-old, hating to get dressed, throwing tantrums to take a nap...
But seriously, my niece was the same way (I practically raised her part time). It's so unbelievably hard to in the moment, but if you think about these things, they're really quite miniscule in the grand scheme of things.
I take it your son is an only child? My niece is, and as a result, she has nobody her age to keep her occupied, and she knows that it's all about her when the adults come around. I've dealt with so many issues about getting dressed. I think that the best thing for me to do is when I felt myself getting frustrated, I would calmly warn her one more time, then leave her in her room and close the door. When she needed to get dressed because we HAD to go somewhere, I would bribe her. I see nothing wrong with it, personally. It could be something as simple as a sticker. It's a rewards program. Eventually you don't do it anymore once the kid is used to it.
Naptime was a killer. I would say to get one of those light up alarm clocks for kids, and tell him he has to stay in his room with quiet toys until the light on the clock comes on. You still get your break (which heaven knows you need!) and you don't have to fight with him.
Honestly, whenever he throws a tantrum, walk away! You save your sanity that way, and when he realizes that you're not paying attention or fighting with him, he'll snap out of it.
As for the sleeve thing, if he manages to get dressed, let him wear what he wants to wear. Take a short sleeve shirt with you for when he inevitably gets hot, but just be grateful that he got dressed.
Honestly, we've all felt so defeated by a toddler at some point. Try to pick your battles. He doesn't do it to spite you.
(Sorry if I was off-topic. I realize this thread is 26 pages long and I only read the first few posts...)
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I've never gone on to develop full on OCD though...
Finally I compromised to let him wear a t-shirt with an open zip-up on top, hoping I'll get it off of him later. Nope, he wouldn't take it off in spite of the heat, and even when the ice cream truck was there and we tried to get him to take it off in exchange for ice cream, he wouldn't do it. Cried that he wants ice cream but still wouldn't. 
