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I'm going to come right out and say it, people who do not vaccinate their kids make me so mad! I actually had someone (who I used to consider a fairly bright person) post on Facebook recently that getting vaccines was a government scam to make money. Please. There are children who have health issues or are fighting diseases (childhood cancer, etc.) that make it risky for them to have vaccines. I get that entirely and see it as even more reason healthy kids should be up to date on vaccines so we don't spread illness to kids who can't get vaccines.
The only reason people can even get away with not vaccinating is because most of us do. It makes me so mad to see the signs all over my son's preschool about the presence of kids who are not vaccinated. What would happen if we all decided not to vaccinate?! Your child is "too good" for "dangerous vaccines" but thank goodness most of our kids are up to date so we can spare your child from having to receive these "toxins". It really, really annoys the heck out of me. I could go on and on and on and on......
I feel the same way! The "anti-vaxxers" are the product of the safe world that the vaccines they oppose created. Birth defects resulting from mothers' exposure to the rubella virus have largely been eliminated. Children no longer go into convulsions and suffer neurological damage from high fevers that frequently accompany measles. Deaths from these diseases, which sometimes reached epidemic proportions, are virtually unknown today.
I'm old enough to remember when they lined us up in the school hallways to give us the early polio vaccines. Nobody was yapping about government conspiracies and other crap because nobody wanted their kid in an iron lung or crippled for the rest of their lives.
I honestly saw a lot of resistance to the chickenpox vaccine in the early days. "It's a mild illness"; "It's a rite of passage"; yada, yada. It actually took some states passing laws to make it mandatory to get everyone on board. I don't know why they weren't giving Prevnar in 2001 at that practice (again, if true), but the Denver area Kaiser practices didn't use it then. I actually gave the fist Prevnar shot at the health department where I worked in 2000.
I didn't realize that this report was so out of date. Prevnar came into widespread use in about 2000 to 2001. I realize that the odds of getting Strep pneumo meningitis are very low, but you only have to see one child die of it to want the vaccine. I personally know two families socially with kids who are deaf from Strep pneumo - both are about 16 years old now. That is virtually unheard of since the vaccine came into widespread usage. As for Varivax, it wasn't paid for by insurances until about 1998. Again, once you see kids die of varicella, or wind up with overwhelming staph or strep sepsis from infection of the varicella lesions, you decide the vaccine is a better choice.
In a way, we're trading chicken pox for an epidemic of shingles. I think that the presence of chicken pox disease in the community acted as a "booster" for older people- every time that they were exposed, their own antibody titer was boosted, and they didn't get reactivation as shingles. Now, with very little chicken pox in the community, older people are getting the natural booster effect, and they're getting shingles.
Katiana, Lkb, and Suzy_q: the Vaccine Experts of the parenting forum. I swear every. single. vaccine thread evolves into some combination of you three arguing over "if you REALLY knew how vaccines work..."
I didn't realize that this report was so out of date. Prevnar came into widespread use in about 2000 to 2001. I realize that the odds of getting Strep pneumo meningitis are very low, but you only have to see one child die of it to want the vaccine. I personally know two families socially with kids who are deaf from Strep pneumo - both are about 16 years old now. That is virtually unheard of since the vaccine came into widespread usage. As for Varivax, it wasn't paid for by insurances until about 1998. Again, once you see kids die of varicella, or wind up with overwhelming staph or strep sepsis from infection of the varicella lesions, you decide the vaccine is a better choice.
In a way, we're trading chicken pox for an epidemic of shingles. I think that the presence of chicken pox disease in the community acted as a "booster" for older people- every time that they were exposed, their own antibody titer was boosted, and they didn't get reactivation as shingles. Now, with very little chicken pox in the community, older people are getting the natural booster effect, and they're getting shingles.
Not quite how shingles works. If you work with elderly people, which I have done at times in my career, you know that shingles has always been with us. A person gets chickenpox, and the chickenpox virus goes dormant in their spinal cord. Then some stress to the immune system comes along, such as illness, pregnancy (I got shingles when I was pregnant with my first) or just advancing age, and the virus re-activates, but becomes shingles this time around.
With chicenpox vaccine, there is evidence that the virus clears out of the body eventually, so the though is there might be less shingles later on. Plus, there is a vaccine for shingles.
I said within their ranges, multiple times, again and again and again.
You can't argue with what I said you so you have to pretend I, and the poster who started all of this, are saying something we did not. Go nuts but all of the above is irrelevant and yet again shows how people are pushing people who just want to spread out vax, into the anti-vax camp because they refuse to acknowledge that there is more than one way to immunize within the guidelines. There are.
The bickering is annoying. The bottom line is that spacing placates parents, but is not supported by science. Pediatricians will do it as it's better than nothing. Is there really any more to say on the topic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by baileyvpotter
Posted this on another forum - belongs on this one. Interesting facts of who is not vaccinating and why.
If you understood immunizations, which you obviously don't, you'd be able to read table 2. It gives minimum intervals between doses of vaccine, and also, the MAXIMUM desirable interval for some, e.g 4-8 weeks, not 4-8 months, or at patient's discretion, or whatever. The table is intended for completion of infant immunizations in infancy, not when one gets their driver's license.
I will be sure to let the Washington state pediatric association that they do not understand for immunization a work since I quoted them .
Crazy doctors recommending allowing vax to be spread out within the cdc windows.
"For example, at 2 months of age, there is a 4-week period during which the first doses of DTaP vaccine, Hib vac- cine, IPV vaccine, and PCV may be ad- ministered.21 Strict adherence to the ACIP recommended schedule would call for simultaneous administration of these 4 doses at a single visit; how- ever, if the 4 doses were spaced out but still administered within the rec- ommended 4-week period (eg, 2 at the beginning of the interval and 2 at the end of the interval), this would remain compatible with the ACIP schedule and might alleviate some parental immuni- zation concerns (albeit at increased cost)."
Quote:
Anyone who chooses to spread out Hib vaccine is nuts. I have several friends whose kids got Hib disease in the pre-vaccine days. I'm talking meningitis. They have permanent neurological sequelae from this disease. This is not something you want to mess around with. From that Washington state article: "Pediatricians were least willing to consider using ACISs for diphtheria-tetanus toxoids-acellular pertussis vaccine, Haemophilus influenzae type b vaccine, and pneumococcal conjugate vaccine." The bold is Hib. The last is PCV, another you suggest can be "spread". And who the heck would want to wait on MMR now, with an epidemic in California and one in Washington state? Never heard of them? Google is your friend.
My source is also about missed opportunities. Jeez, I quoted that piece. Or do you just argue w/o reading?
Look you source was distinctly NOT. About spreading out vax within their ranges which you initially claimed it was. Either you don't understand the article, or you deliberately misconstrued it. Either way misrepresenting science is exactly why you claim to hate the anti-vax propaganda machine yet you are engaging in the exact same process.
The measles outbreak that you insist was due to people spreading out vaccines was due to a schedule that did not require two doses of MMR. That is a great example of how science should work, new information came to light and people changed their recommendations. It is decidedly anti-science to misconstrue information, lie about what people say, and so on just so you don't have to admit you were wrong.
There are things we cannot get around
Most doctors are comfortable (their word not mine) spreading out vaccinations.
Both the WHO and CDC have schedules that allow for a range of times were most vaccines can be delivered.
Parents choosing to spread out their child's vaccines are not going to overwhelm their children's immune systems.
You have shown nothing that proves otherwise with regard to any of that.
Not quite how shingles works. If you work with elderly people, which I have done at times in my career, you know that shingles has always been with us. A person gets chickenpox, and the chickenpox virus goes dormant in their spinal cord. Then some stress to the immune system comes along, such as illness, pregnancy (I got shingles when I was pregnant with my first) or just advancing age, and the virus re-activates, but becomes shingles this time around.
With chicenpox vaccine, there is evidence that the virus clears out of the body eventually, so the though is there might be less shingles later on. Plus, there is a vaccine for shingles.
Two possible dangers of an extensive varicella vaccination program are more varicella (chickenpox) cases in adults, when the complication rates are higher, and an increase in cases of zoster (shingles)....Thus the simulations validate the second danger of more zoster cases.
But according to this cdc doc, it is unproven that it is stress related..
But other hypothesized triggers, such as stress or sunburn, remain unproven, says Stephanie R. Bialek, MD, MPH, leader of the herpes virus unit at the CDC’s Division of Viral Diseases
If you are going to present a theory, even one as likely as the zoster one you should not present it as fact.
I happen to think you and the cdc are going to turn out to be right and it is unrelated to chicken pox vaccine but even the cdc is not misrepresenting this as a done deal yet. Too soon and not enough evidence for, and still too much evidence against that hasn't been proven flawed yet.
Herpes zoster rates are increasing among adults in the United States. Some experts suggest that exposure to varicella disease boosts a person’s immunity to VZV and reduces risk for VZV reactivation. Thus, they are concerned that routine childhood varicella vaccination, recommended in the United States in 1996, could lead to an increase in herpes zoster in adults due to reduced opportunities for being exposed to varicella. ....The increase has been gradual over a long period of time. We do not know the reason for this increase.[5,6,7].....CDC continues to study the epidemiology of herpes zoster among adults and children and to monitor the effects of the U.S. varicella and zoster vaccination programs.
The bickering is annoying. The bottom line is that spacing placates parents, but is not supported by science. Pediatricians will do it as it's better than nothing. Is there really any more to say on the topic?
Nope. Thanks Zimbo.
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I feel the same way! The "anti-vaxxers" are the product of the safe world that the vaccines they oppose created. Birth defects resulting from mothers' exposure to the rubella virus have largely been eliminated. Children no longer go into convulsions and suffer neurological damage from high fevers that frequently accompany measles. Deaths from these diseases, which sometimes reached epidemic proportions, are virtually unknown today.
that's how I see it, anyway.
