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Old 12-16-2007, 12:36 AM
 
Location: Obama playing field
716 posts, read 1,867,122 times
Reputation: 380

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessiegirl_98 View Post
I would call your son and invite him to your home for Christmas and that if he is willing to come and show you respect, he can join you and get his presents. Otherwise, no presents. Seriously. You can get him stuff and hold onto it and he can earn it by being respectful. That's it. Make it clear that is what you are doing! Do not dump off presents at his dads.

If i were a teenager and in his shoes, i would rebel, end up making it a standoff on who will break first. Its far too confronting. Its obvious that he is seeking attention from Mom.

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Its sounds like he is jealous, feeling left out, sharring you with other members of the faimly and enjoys the company of a person who can solely focus all their attention on him, his father!.

Perhaps he has insecurity issues inside of him with you. He may just need a lot of reassuring and comforting words from both you and your husband, he may be feeling left out on some occassions. Quality time and lots of reassurance me thinks, is whats required to get this mom/son relationship back on the road.

If on the other hand you've exhausted those ideas, then perhaps he needs time to be apart from you to realize who really is his biggest fan. Sometimes you dont really see what you got until you've time to yourself to take stock, but ofcourse, remind him that you'll always be there when he feels ready to speak to you and that you're sorry if theres anything you might have done or not have done to make him feel this way and that no matter what, you will always be his biggest fan in the whole world.

He'll remember it when gets a quite somber moment to himself. Tough love isnt the answer to this problem me thinks.

GL & keep us posted
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Old 12-16-2007, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Chicago
2,467 posts, read 11,119,300 times
Reputation: 851
Quote:
Originally Posted by GracieJJ View Post
If i were a teenager and in his shoes, i would rebel, end up making it a standoff on who will break first. Its far too confronting. Its obvious that he is seeking attention from Mom.

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Its sounds like he is jealous, feeling left out, sharring you with other members of the faimly and enjoys the company of a person who can solely focus all their attention on him, his father!.

Perhaps he has insecurity issues inside of him with you. He may just need a lot of reassuring and comforting words from both you and your husband, he may be feeling left out on some occassions. Quality time and lots of reassurance me thinks, is whats required to get this mom/son relationship back on the road.

If on the other hand you've exhausted those ideas, then perhaps he needs time to be apart from you to realize who really is his biggest fan. Sometimes you dont really see what you got until you've time to yourself to take stock, but ofcourse, remind him that you'll always be there when he feels ready to speak to you and that you're sorry if theres anything you might have done or not have done to make him feel this way and that no matter what, you will always be his biggest fan in the whole world.

He'll remember it when gets a quite somber moment to himself. Tough love isnt the answer to this problem me thinks.

GL & keep us posted

I think that she has already given in several times and that hasn't worked. If you've read the other posts, she really does need to try tough love and stay with it. You can give acceptance and love while being tough. He walks all over his mother and show her no respect regardless of how much attention, etc. Realistically, they need counseling together, but until then, he's testing her waiting for her to break. If she breaks, she has lost all of her ground. It's unfortunate, but she can just leave the door open for her son (making sure he knows that) and he will have to decide when he's ready to re-enter.
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Old 12-16-2007, 09:07 AM
 
2,222 posts, read 9,138,912 times
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I would like to suggest you read the thread in parenting titled "19 year old in jail". Post #141 by Robhu outlines her tough love approach with her son.

Last edited by Beth56; 12-16-2007 at 09:15 AM..
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Old 12-16-2007, 09:43 AM
 
Location: NJ
9,173 posts, read 20,201,974 times
Reputation: 6230
I think I'm new to this problem, don't recall reading the other posts...

I hope my reply will make sense.. my mind is racing, I will have to find your other posts to get more info but don't have the time right now...

Quote:
Originally Posted by twowolves View Post
I'm awful at tough love...
I don't think it's you.. I think it's the birth father and maybe you need tough love with him and not just the son. I would be going over there, having the birth father pack his bags if he took stuff over and not giving him a choice.

Who has legal custody? Is there child support involved? I wonder if the father is trying to turn the son on mom so that he lives with him and doesn't have to pay support. Depending on what the arrangement is, mom may have to pay the father support. I know my attorney would be all over this.

Sounds to me that the father is not being supportive of the mom and needs to start being supportive. I also wonder if the son vents, if the father is agreeing and talking bad about the mom / husband?

With counseling.. sounds like it needs to be the mother, birth father & son. Once things get going, bring the step dad in.


While I do agree with allowing kids to choose which parent they want to live with, I think that the son staying with the birth father is toxic to the mom's relationship with the son. What is going on here is not normal (sorry, lack of a better word). While I get that your son is mad about something, this grudge is not healthy for him. He needs to learn how to deal with things; especially since it sounds like the mom's home is where he belongs, with his sibs. He needs to get over being jealous or what ever he is.

When he gets to be an adult, if he still wants to hold the grudge it is his decision. Right now, if the mom has legal custody, he needs to be at her house and the birth father needs to support that. This is not between the mom & the kid when the birth father let's the kid do what he wants. He's making it too easy for the son not to face this, probably for his own selfish reasons.

Don't even get me started about Christmas. The birth father should tell the boy that arrangements have been made, he is spending part of the day with his mother, and it will be either the morning to open gifts (with a sleep over the night before) or he will come for dinner. I have never once taken Christmas away from either of my two ex's no matter how toxic the relationship was for us. My daughter isn't exactly happy to go to her fathers for Christmas any more since he didn't get her anything last year, but she will be going this year (I don't want to take this off topic but he will get her something this year).. With my son, his SD was not in the picture. Christmas arrangements were made by me with his great aunt. The SD ended up stopping by.

Christmas is for the kids in my eyes. At 14 my daughter still likes Christmas & getting gifts, she loves watching little kids open gifts. While your son at 15 may not get a Christmas like the little ones, he should be able to understand that he got gifts like they did (if this applies). I still remember my son, who is 8 years older then my daughter, liked to watch her open gifts. He knew he didn't get as much because his stuff cost more plus he also got cash.

For your son to not want to be at your house.. something is wrong.. he has a grudge that he can't let go & IMO it's probably due to your Ex coaching him.
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Old 12-16-2007, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
919 posts, read 2,857,887 times
Reputation: 251
I do not know your situation..but I will say this...it is very common for those who have been abused to marry abusive men and to then allow their children to abuse them if they do not turn out to be abusers..so you have some weak boundaries you have learned and need to apply them with your son, when you do, and sees your have them, he may then learn to be repsectful to you, I am betting he learned this from you, cause this is what you had taught him, all those years, not that I am blaming you here, I won't do that but it is true that we teach people how to treat us..even our own children...esp if we had no right in our minds to be treated otherwise, felt as if we had deserved this? I hoped this has helped you..I had to learn this in T...to not be a victim to others since I grew up in a home where I was the family scapegoat...gosh I cringe now when I see kids smacking their parents and yelling at them..I know how they feel and I do not judge, I know where they have come from..sometimes I offer advice if I think they are willing to hear it but if I see great denial, I say nothing but walk away feeling really bad for them and esp their child...be well.
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Old 12-16-2007, 11:17 AM
 
Location: NJ
9,173 posts, read 20,201,974 times
Reputation: 6230
I started reading post #1.. and am getting ready to walk out the door so I will read more later. I see you mentioned he has a lock on his bedroom door. Take the lock off.
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:42 PM
 
1,472 posts, read 2,231,714 times
Reputation: 558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth56 View Post
Hi twowolves,

I'm sorry to hear there has not been any improvement between you and your son. I know my tough love stance (outlined in your previous thread) may not be popular but it is still my opinion on what I would do in your position. Your son is learning that he can treat you badly and get away with it, and as you previously stated, watch you grovel toward him. What you are doing does not appear to be working for you. Perhaps you need to try something new. I wish I had something else to offer as I know this is painful for you, but I don't. I wish you well in your search for answers. Beth
Beth,
I really agree with your tough love advice and imo, it's the best advice I've been given. However, like my thread title, I am horrible at holding my ground.
And I hate that.

I really feel a lot of my son's disrespectful treatment of me, is my fault. For letting him do it, and for being too weak to stand up to him when he really got good at the rudeness.

When he really began all of this full force, it was around him turning 14. And the same year that he had his first g/f. She hurt him badly. He was very bitter...especially since she had early on in their 5+ month relationship, cajoled/guilted him into saying the "L" word....and within a few months thereafter, she broke his heart. She was one of the prettier/est girls at the school...and so got a lot of attention from other boys...she would play it up....especially in front of my son-as he was her b/f and she liked the attention. Obviously, it would really bother him....his so-called g/f being flirtatious with other boys and right in front of him.

I would listen at his bedroom door at night, him on the phone talking to her, basically begging her with stuff like 'please tell me whats wrong....why won't you talk to me.....why are you being so quiet......why do you let (so and so) touch you like that in front of me?' and stuff like that. She played so many mean games on him. It was awful. It broke my heart.

Anyway, the next 8 months after that, were the increasingly bad months. He became more rebellious with me, more disrespectful with me, more argumentative, more argument provoking and more closed up inside. They broke up in May and he was living with the dad in October. This was 2006.

And the rest is history. He came back in August 2007 and left again October 2007....and is still gone. I also feel like I am his scapegoat for all of his anger at other people/issues in his life. I am the safe one. He knows I won't leave him.

Beth, I appreciate your very sensible words of wisdom, I just need to be able to follow through with it now.
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Old 12-16-2007, 07:04 PM
 
1,472 posts, read 2,231,714 times
Reputation: 558
Quote:
Originally Posted by GracieJJ View Post
If i were a teenager and in his shoes, i would rebel, end up making it a standoff on who will break first. Its far too confronting. Its obvious that he is seeking attention from Mom.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Its sounds like he is jealous, feeling left out, sharring you with other members of the faimly and enjoys the company of a person who can solely focus all their attention on him, his father!.

Perhaps he has insecurity issues inside of him with you. He may just need a lot of reassuring and comforting words from both you and your husband, he may be feeling left out on some occassions. Quality time and lots of reassurance me thinks, is whats required to get this mom/son relationship back on the road.

If on the other hand you've exhausted those ideas, then perhaps he needs time to be apart from you to realize who really is his biggest fan. Sometimes you dont really see what you got until you've time to yourself to take stock, but ofcourse, remind him that you'll always be there when he feels ready to speak to you and that you're sorry if theres anything you might have done or not have done to make him feel this way and that no matter what, you will always be his biggest fan in the whole world.

He'll remember it when gets a quite somber moment to himself. Tough love isnt the answer to this problem me thinks.

GL & keep us posted
As jessiegirl said I have done the positive attention thing. I have always adored my son. I have always given him lots of one-on-one attention. Especially after the birth of his little brothers. I made sure that he didn't feel left out. I have asked him atleast 3 times since their arrival, if he is at all jealous of them or the attention that they require. He emphatically always said NO. And would add...."I am actually glad that you had them because now it takes some of your attention off of me..." And I could tell he meant it.

After he turned 14ish, he really resented any attention that I gave him, especially if my attention were all on him....he would almost seem self-conscious/uncomfortable....like 'why are you over here talking to me? leave me alone!' God forbid I touched him or tried to 'hug' him. He hasn't said 'I love you' or given me a hug I would say in over 2yrs. And cringes if I touch him, even if just jokingly on the arm or something.

I have to say that the arrival of his 2 little siblings did kind of occur around the time of his 'puberty' and at the same time when a teen wants to detach with the opposite sex parent....for a son that would be his mother.

I was always 'overly' attentive to him....so maybe he felt he has to leave me physically in order to separate from me? But that does NOT explain the meanness, disrespect, anger and basically total estrangement from me, his little brothers and his 'home' for the past 10 yrs.

It's just such a mystery. I think a big part of the abuse is because he's been 'able' to do it. I have let it occur and continue.

One good thing, he and the dad are forming a great bond, I can tell. He needs that.

The grandma (whom son and the dad are living with as the dads condo is too small and far from sons school) is also supportive and appalled at sons treatment of me. She is working on him slowly.

Thank you for your insight gracie.
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Old 12-16-2007, 07:11 PM
 
1,472 posts, read 2,231,714 times
Reputation: 558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaharbour View Post
I do not know your situation..but I will say this...it is very common for those who have been abused to marry abusive men and to then allow their children to abuse them if they do not turn out to be abusers..so you have some weak boundaries you have learned and need to apply them with your son, when you do, and sees your have them, he may then learn to be repsectful to you, I am betting he learned this from you, cause this is what you had taught him, all those years, not that I am blaming you here, I won't do that but it is true that we teach people how to treat us..even our own children...esp if we had no right in our minds to be treated otherwise, felt as if we had deserved this? I hoped this has helped you..I had to learn this in T...to not be a victim to others since I grew up in a home where I was the family scapegoat...gosh I cringe now when I see kids smacking their parents and yelling at them..I know how they feel and I do not judge, I know where they have come from..sometimes I offer advice if I think they are willing to hear it but if I see great denial, I say nothing but walk away feeling really bad for them and esp their child...be well.
I left the abusive dad when son was 18mo and never went back. I am also one who would NEVER take abuse from any man again. I was very young and naive when I met his father...just 20.

I have been with my current husband since son was 4 and there has NEVER been even a second of any type (physical/verbal) abuse going on here. So, basically my son has never seen that scene. I wouldn't allow it, thats the primary reason that I left his father.....

My son is the only person whom I have let abuse me per se, and why I allow it? I have NO idea. Maybe guilt because I and his father didn't make it as a family and I felt bad for my son??

My son has coincidentally mentioned a time or two in the past several years that his 2 little brothers are lucky that their parents are together..... maybe this is part of the equation and part of my guilt?? Which is allowing me to allow him to abuse me?
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Old 12-16-2007, 07:18 PM
 
1,472 posts, read 2,231,714 times
Reputation: 558
Default what do I say to son re:Christmas?

Do I leave a voice mail for him? Only to be unanswered? What do I say?

Any examples of a sentence or two-which is all thats necessary to ask him what he's planning on doing for Christmas?

I want it to be matter of fact but also loving.....if his answer is NO, then he won't be hearing from me for quite awhile.

In the meantime, I have NOT seen/talked to him since his last wrestling match last Wednesday-where I actually was there in attendance with my husband and kids.....I don't plan on communicating at all with him until like next Sat or so, which is when I plan on somehow asking him about Christmas......I want some time to go by to make him 'wonder' a bit.

I don't plan on giving him his gifts until he can come here and open them in our presence. That is the least he could do.

I am tired of being his doormat. And mad at myself for allowing it. I have more self-esteem that this!!!! I really do!!!

I need some real examples of some ways to put the 'message' re:Christmas.
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