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Old 07-27-2014, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,434 posts, read 41,608,566 times
Reputation: 46994

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MmeZeeZee View Post
Your girls have boyfriends--what are these boyfriends' families like? Any way to talk to the parents about your concern over your daughters' behavior, and ask for support in creating a more structured, age-appropriate plan? If yes, I'd say go for it. If the girls feel like it's just you getting angry, they are less likely to respect you. If they know that this is a societal expectation, they are still going to be angry but perhaps it will sink in a bit more.
Why do you think it is right to make the parents of the boyfriends responsible for the OP's daughters? He and his wife need to be in charge and leave the parents of the boys in charge of their own families. I think asking the parents of the boys for "support" is like avoiding taking responsibility for your own kids. If some parent came to me and said "Let's make a plan to keep these kids from misbehaving" I would say "You take care of your end and I'll take care of mine." If the kids think their parents have ganged up on them I fear it would only draw them closer together with a common enemy.

 
Old 07-27-2014, 04:35 PM
 
6,940 posts, read 8,872,935 times
Reputation: 7790
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocTrojan View Post
I have 2 kids, both daughters, both in their teens( 15 and 17) and I have a heck of a time disciplining them. Now, the 15 year old, she's the calmer of the two, she doesn't really argue with me, as much as debate me. She doesn't come to argue me with out well thought out arguments and because of that, she usually got her way. As the years have gone on she's begun to take after her sister. The 17 year old won't argue, she'll just whine and groan until either she gets her way or she gives up. They're both generally good kids, no suspension, no arrests, but they have snuck beer, snuck out of the house, and gotten more detentions than I would've liked. My house has very few, but very fair rules, ones my dad gave my sister. No revealing outfits, no boys upstairs, unless you're ok with you having your door open and me in the study( upstairs), if you are having a male friend over for the 1st time, parents are meeting him first, and try your hardest in school, if you can only muster up a C in a class, fine, just as long as you did all you could. If any discipline is done in the house it's by me. My wife is always the good guy. I'll ground a daughter, she'll start throwing a fit, then my wife'll put her arm around the daughter, and ask them to go for a walk. I've tried being the good guy, they don't respond to it. As I imagine is the case of a majority of fathers, I'm the human ATM machine. My 15 year old did recently have a job, but she felt it was affecting school and quit it.

I need help. What needs to be done?
It sounds like the more (or the more skillfully) they argue, the more likely you are to give in. Stop doing that. And I mean completely. If they argue or whine, give them a consequence they don't like, immediately. The rules have to mean something to work -- and they don't if you give in because they know how to make you cave in by whining or debating (which is another word for arguing, dude).
 
Old 07-28-2014, 12:32 AM
 
1,316 posts, read 938,171 times
Reputation: 3379
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocTrojan View Post
I have 2 kids, both daughters, both in their teens( 15 and 17) and I have a heck of a time disciplining them. Now, the 15 year old, she's the calmer of the two, she doesn't really argue with me, as much as debate me. She doesn't come to argue me with out well thought out arguments and because of that, she usually got her way. As the years have gone on she's begun to take after her sister. The 17 year old won't argue, she'll just whine and groan until either she gets her way or she gives up. They're both generally good kids, no suspension, no arrests, but they have snuck beer, snuck out of the house, and gotten more detentions than I would've liked. My house has very few, but very fair rules, ones my dad gave my sister. No revealing outfits, no boys upstairs, unless you're ok with you having your door open and me in the study( upstairs), if you are having a male friend over for the 1st time, parents are meeting him first, and try your hardest in school, if you can only muster up a C in a class, fine, just as long as you did all you could. If any discipline is done in the house it's by me. My wife is always the good guy. I'll ground a daughter, she'll start throwing a fit, then my wife'll put her arm around the daughter, and ask them to go for a walk. I've tried being the good guy, they don't respond to it. As I imagine is the case of a majority of fathers, I'm the human ATM machine. My 15 year old did recently have a job, but she felt it was affecting school and quit it.

I need help. What needs to be done?
I don't actually have any advice, but you sound like a really sweet person and a good dad. Your family sounds normal. You could always say "no" a little more often though

"Dad can I have $20?" "No." It's beautiful in its simplicity.

Just food for thought, maybe think about why your dad gave your sister rules he didn't give you...parents are usually so much harder on daughters than sons, ugh. Maybe that gave you an unrealistic view of how to raise girls. I don't know. That comment just stuck out to me.

Really, though, being slightly too permissive is better than being a totally overbearing jerk, so I think you're OK.
 
Old 07-28-2014, 12:35 AM
 
1,316 posts, read 938,171 times
Reputation: 3379
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
I'm a bit concerned about this. A 17 year old taking booze while just hanging out at home is a bit of a red flag to me. It's not the behavior of a person that just has a beer or two out with friends and thinks nothing of it otherwise. Do you know how long she's been drinking? If she's been at it from a young age and has just hidden it from you her taking drinks could be indicative of a problem. Especially as it's causing her issues with you and she still continues to do it. Continuing to drink when it's causing problems is one of the indicators of alcoholism. For those of you who think I'm being overly dramatic, it's pretty common for young people's parents to be completely blindsided by problem drinking. There's often a component of "we had no clue, we don't know how this happened". It's worth keeping an eye on, hopefully it's nothing. I would also make sure there's no narcotic medication lying around.

And btw, she's not "sneaking" a beer. She's stealing.

Oh, jeez. I used to sneak into my parents' liquor cabinet and take some vodka, replacing it with water. That's normal teen behavior. Bad behavior, yes, but no raging "red flag".

Incidentally, once I left home for college, I decided not to drink for a while. I had had my taste of the scene in high school and thought "meh". I didn't drink again for almost ten years. So it's not like a few teen shenanigans doom anyone to a life of alcoholism.
 
Old 07-28-2014, 01:00 AM
 
291 posts, read 294,344 times
Reputation: 577
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmsn4Life View Post
When they say that, just tell them to add it to the list of things they can tell their future therapist.
I usually like your posts but how are these immature children going to pony up for a therapist?

I mean come on.

These girls are stealing alcohol from their parents at 15. That's pretty bad.

Quote:
Why do you think it is right to make the parents of the boyfriends responsible for the OP's daughters?
Whoa, I did not say they should be responsible! I agree that that would be totally uncalled for.

I just meant calling them up and having a discussion about what expectations are for the couple--like, "This is my daughter's curfew, so if she says she's with your son, please don't be surprised if I call your house when she's late and they aren't answering their phones." Or, "I'm going to be honest, they've been drinking at my place. I don't know who drank the beer, but I'm locking it up. If you have alcohol available at your place, I'd be grateful if you let me know so we know where she might be getting it."

This is not putting the burden on them but instead coordinating your knowledge about these young kids.

And I for one do not think taking your parents' booze is normal behavior.

Quote:
If some parent came to me and said "Let's make a plan to keep these kids from misbehaving" I would say "You take care of your end and I'll take care of mine."
And if that parent is giving your teen alcohol behind your back, or doesn't realize that your kid is stealing it?

You can't stop kids from making mistakes but you can help other adults tailor their reactions and trust levels by informing them of what you're dealing with.

In short, let me know if I need to padlock my liquor when your son comes over, okay? Also let me know if you have told your kids they can't come to my house, because you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to kick them out when they get here and let you know they broke your rule. Oh, and if I tell you my daughter hasn't been taking her birth control, I found a whole month in the family bathroom, are you really not going to tell your son to stay away from that little idiot (and that WOULD make her an idiot) or wrap it up for the love of god because I am not raising that baby for you?

These are minors.

If they have no accountability to me, then you know what? They can get the heck out of my house and get a freaking JOB and pay the bills. If I haven't raised you well enough to do that, I'm probably not going to figure it out in the last two years, so go ahead into foster care, because I've obviously failed you by this point.

How can a 17-year-old have a car, a phone, no job, and no accountability?

Poor little thing. She is truly a rebel without a cause.

Here's a cause, precious snowflake: find a place to live and a job to pay the rent.

Teens need freedom? They need as much freedom as they earn. Total independence=total freedom.

Otherwise, my house, my rules.
 
Old 07-28-2014, 05:57 AM
 
9,056 posts, read 6,722,316 times
Reputation: 11008
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzile View Post
Oh, jeez. I used to sneak into my parents' liquor cabinet and take some vodka, replacing it with water. That's normal teen behavior. Bad behavior, yes, but no raging "red flag".

Incidentally, once I left home for college, I decided not to drink for a while. I had had my taste of the scene in high school and thought "meh". I didn't drink again for almost ten years. So it's not like a few teen shenanigans doom anyone to a life of alcoholism.
As I said, hopefully it's nothing. But you'd be mistaken if you don't think that for some people, a few teen shennanigans do indeed doom them to a life of alcoholism. The younger you drink the more likely it is that you'll have drinking problems later in life. So while it didn't happen to you or even most, if you are a parent of a kid who can't keep their hands off the liquor cabinet - even while in the midst of being caught and punished for same - you should at least be aware that it can and does happen and that certain behaviors are definitely a raging red flag. You would be remiss as a parent if you give it zero consideration, especially when you have a kid that drives.

There are plenty of people in recovery by the time they're 21. How do you think that happens?
 
Old 07-28-2014, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Johns Creek, GA
1,956 posts, read 1,995,179 times
Reputation: 2211
ugh. Not looking forward to dealing with this 16 years from now.

My advice: Your wife is undercutting discipline in the house. Instead of trying to cow your wife into following your example (which is the same tack you are taking with your daughters that isn't working), you should make sure that she shares in the consequences of her actions.

Seriously... if she gives the kids their phone back then stop taking their phones from them. Start giving your daughers softball punishments. You should do the same with your money... make sure that your kids are fed and clothed and save everything else (trust me, you will need it when they leave the house and start begging you for $). No borrowing the car (if they want to drive the car, then they must do so with you in it).

If your wife has any sense at all, she will notice the disengagement on your part. If she's a good mom, she will eithe rpick up the slack or try to talk to you to find out what's going on.

If she is a bad mom then she will let the kids run wild, which portends badly for everyone involved.

Long story short... you are one person in a 4 person household. You cannot hold things together by yourself without being a controlling douchebag. Life is too short, so don't be a d-bag because it will affect your personality long term. Give your daughters good advice, tell their mom that you and they need her help and then take a step back. The 4 of you together have complete control over your home environment.
 
Old 07-28-2014, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
39,026 posts, read 37,656,456 times
Reputation: 73631
Quote:
Originally Posted by MmeZeeZee View Post
I usually like your posts but how are these immature children going to pony up for a therapist?

I mean come on.
Settle down. It's a joke.
 
Old 07-28-2014, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
11,042 posts, read 11,450,778 times
Reputation: 17199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmsn4Life View Post
Uh huh, so where IS the line?

I figured the law is reasonable. Apparently not?
In most states the law is that you can serve alcohol to minors only if they are your children. This is to accommodate serving wine or beer with meals, and to teach children how to use alcohol in an adult and reasonable manner. Unfortunately, it's apparent that a lot of parents do not know how to use alcohol in an adult and reasonable manner. It's a cultural thing that many Americans have lost.

Hosting a kegger is not included.
 
Old 07-28-2014, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
39,026 posts, read 37,656,456 times
Reputation: 73631
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
In most states the law is that you can serve alcohol to minors only if they are your children.
Not allowed in my state, which is all I care about.
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