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Old 07-28-2014, 09:47 AM
 
Location: The analog world
15,578 posts, read 8,749,121 times
Reputation: 20900

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Here's the funny thing: I'm a grown-up who doesn't drink, and I think it's hilarious that somehow consuming alcohol has been equated with being an adult. For years I have been subtly ridiculed for abstaining. People assume I'm a religious nut...NO...that I'm a recovering alcoholic...NO...that someone else in my family is an alcoholic...again, NO...that I'm afraid of it...once again, NO...or that I'm infantile (this I hear from my MIL)...um, really?

As for the OP's situation, I think it's a problem if kids are sneaking alcohol. I think it's also a problem when adults are so attached to their weekly drinking ritual that they are unwilling to give it up in order to limit their kids' access to alcohol. I mean, really, that's what we do as parents. We put our children's needs above our own.

If I were in the OP's place, one of the first things I'd do is get rid of the beer, the wine, the vodka, and whatever else is in the cabinet. There's lots of room for negotiation in the parent-child relationship, but there is no room, at least for me, in negotiating breaking the law. Underage drinking is still illegal in this country. When a parent gives a child permission to thwart the law, it becomes open season on authority in general.

 
Old 07-28-2014, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
58 posts, read 47,708 times
Reputation: 30
They felt as though they were owed an explanation for the grounding, I was against giving it, but my wife said " why not?". I kept it blunt, told them Mom and I are concerned about how out of control they both are and worried that they are a little too entitled and exhibit spoiled behavior. Lauren, the 15yo, spoke up first, she feels that " we as teenagers need to be free to make our own mistakes, so we can learn from them independently and benefit from the lesson learned." All I heard was " give us no rules and let's see what happens". I reiterated that the spoiled behavior needed to stop and a job might be in their near future. Amber, said, and this is a word for word, direct quote, " C'mon Dad, we're your daughters, we're supposed to be spoiled." Yikes.
 
Old 07-28-2014, 10:10 AM
 
5,413 posts, read 4,818,147 times
Reputation: 9351
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocTrojan View Post
They felt as though they were owed an explanation for the grounding, I was against giving it, but my wife said " why not?". I kept it blunt, told them Mom and I are concerned about how out of control they both are and worried that they are a little too entitled and exhibit spoiled behavior. Lauren, the 15yo, spoke up first, she feels that " we as teenagers need to be free to make our own mistakes, so we can learn from them independently and benefit from the lesson learned." All I heard was " give us no rules and let's see what happens". I reiterated that the spoiled behavior needed to stop and a job might be in their near future. Amber, said, and this is a word for word, direct quote, " C'mon Dad, we're your daughters, we're supposed to be spoiled." Yikes.
So you grounded them....but didn't tell them why you grounded them? What sort of logic is that? They need specifics of behavrio...not general "I don't like you anymore and think your spoiled."
 
Old 07-28-2014, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
58 posts, read 47,708 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarletG View Post
So you grounded them....but didn't tell them why you grounded them? What sort of logic is that? They need specifics of behavrio...not general "I don't like you anymore and think your spoiled."
I already gave an explanation, they wanted further explanation.
 
Old 07-28-2014, 10:23 AM
 
5,413 posts, read 4,818,147 times
Reputation: 9351
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocTrojan View Post
I already gave an explanation, they wanted further explanation.
You said you thought they were spoiled....that isn't really an explanation. You need to give them specifics.....not so they can wiggle around.....so they know exactly what you mean and what you expect to change.

Teen brains do not think like an adults....you may know exactly what you are trying to accomplish but it's a parents job to make sure the teenager gets it.

You haven't done a darn thing to discipline them.....you've just punished...and all that is going to do is get them to find a way to go around you.
 
Old 07-28-2014, 10:57 AM
 
12,914 posts, read 19,792,997 times
Reputation: 33920
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarletG View Post
So you grounded them....but didn't tell them why you grounded them? What sort of logic is that? They need specifics of behavrio...not general "I don't like you anymore and think your spoiled."
Exactly. They shouldn't need any explanation, because the rules should have been spelled out long ago. If you didn't take that common sense step, then whether or not rules were broken is open to interpretation.

Clear up the ambiguity, set consequences, and start making them earn their spending money.
 
Old 07-28-2014, 12:09 PM
 
9,056 posts, read 6,725,457 times
Reputation: 11008
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocTrojan View Post
They felt as though they were owed an explanation for the grounding, I was against giving it, but my wife said " why not?". I kept it blunt, told them Mom and I are concerned about how out of control they both are and worried that they are a little too entitled and exhibit spoiled behavior. Lauren, the 15yo, spoke up first, she feels that " we as teenagers need to be free to make our own mistakes, so we can learn from them independently and benefit from the lesson learned." All I heard was " give us no rules and let's see what happens". I reiterated that the spoiled behavior needed to stop and a job might be in their near future. Amber, said, and this is a word for word, direct quote, " C'mon Dad, we're your daughters, we're supposed to be spoiled." Yikes.
Yikes indeed. Here's the fatal flaw with her line of thinking - there are mistakes, and then there are life altering devastating consequences that afford you zero do-over.

For instance:

You kill someone (maybe even your sister) driving home from a party at 3am after drinking
You get charged with vehicular manslaughter and end up incarcerated
You are sued for gross negligence and your family loses everything because you're a minor
You get pregnant at 15
You end up with life long substance abuse issues from partying at an early age
You are so irresponsible you completely eff up your college work and endure $8/hr employment forever after
You are so spoiled you rely on a man to look after you for the duration

You are so incapable of being self sufficient as an adult that you end up in dad's basement for the rest of your existence.
 
Old 07-28-2014, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,434 posts, read 41,632,813 times
Reputation: 46995
OP I know we miss a lot from online discussions but I'm wondering what is going on here. Didn't you and wife ever have rules when they were growing up/ bedtime, limited screen time, what clothes to wear or not wear, when to come in, grades expected, friends allowed to be with and where?????

Seems like they just have been used to doing whatever they want. No wonder they are confused cause it is awfully late to be setting up discipline.

Do you know the difference between discipline and punishment?

Of course as parents we have to tell our kids why they are being punished or disciplined. We have to make the rules so ingrained that they know what they have done wrong but still none of this "Because I said so" when they ask "Why?"
 
Old 07-28-2014, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
58 posts, read 47,708 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
OP I know we miss a lot from online discussions but I'm wondering what is going on here. Didn't you and wife ever have rules when they were growing up/ bedtime, limited screen time, what clothes to wear or not wear, when to come in, grades expected, friends allowed to be with and where?????

Seems like they just have been used to doing whatever they want. No wonder they are confused cause it is awfully late to be setting up discipline.

Do you know the difference between discipline and punishment?

Of course as parents we have to tell our kids why they are being punished or disciplined. We have to make the rules so ingrained that they know what they have done wrong but still none of this "Because I said so" when they ask "Why?"
We did go over expected grades, both my wife and I went to college, we expect them to, whether it be CC to a 4 year school, or straight to a 4 year school. We expect them to do the best they can. Bedtime was pretty lax, if it was set at 8:30, they'd beg for 8:40, and they got it. The clothes thing has always been them, trying to leave in a skimpy outfit, and me redirecting them upstairs while they pouted. Friends wise, thank the lord they stay away from the druggie kids. The clothes conversations( paraphrased)

Me: What the ( heck) are you wearing?
Daughter: It's a skirt
Me: Looks like about half a string of dental floss. Go change
Daughter: But
Me: I could always take the car keys away.
Daughter: * eye roll* fine

changes
 
Old 07-28-2014, 01:26 PM
 
9,056 posts, read 6,725,457 times
Reputation: 11008
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocTrojan View Post
We did go over expected grades, both my wife and I went to college, we expect them to, whether it be CC to a 4 year school, or straight to a 4 year school. We expect them to do the best they can.
Or?


Quote:
Originally Posted by DocTrojan View Post
Bedtime was pretty lax, if it was set at 8:30, they'd beg for 8:40, and they got it. The clothes thing has always been them, trying to leave in a skimpy outfit, and me redirecting them upstairs while they pouted. Friends wise, thank the lord they stay away from the druggie kids.

Thank the lord. Otherwise, who knows, they might end up stealing drugs from their parents.
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