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The easiest way to get them to settle down enough to go to sleep is to sit in there with them until they are almost asleep. You can sit in the doorway where there is light and read a book or a magazine. Or you can sit in the semi dark of the room and just be there. Just quiet and boring.
It works very well in most cases. My profession is child care and when we had a child that had a difficult time settling down for nap we'd simply sit right beside them and fill out our paperwork. It often took no more than 10 minutes to get even the most hyped up kid to settle down and sleep.
I know OP has already said he doesn't want to do this, but I just wanted to give some support to this method. I did this with both of my kids for a while when they were toddlers. I would just sit in there with my laptop doing my thing and enforce that it was time to stay in bed and be quiet. It didn't last forever - I don't do it anymore!
My kids shared a room for several years, but a few months ago my oldest (8) expressed that she wanted to sleep in her own room. Her main reason was that her sister (5) kept her up trying to talk to her when she wanted to go to sleep. They weren't up playing, or being loud, just talking quietly which I didn't mind. But I guess my oldest minded! So now they sleep in their own rooms. The little one is better about falling asleep at night too, now that she is in kindergarten where they don't take naps anymore.
I am also of the mindset that you should absolutely NOT insert a parent sitting nearby into the mix. A daycare center for naptime and a home bedroom for night sleeping are two different situations. Children need to learn to fall asleep on their own at night.
One question for the OP--are the children tired during the day? Is/does the play after bedtime create problems with a lack of sleep for the children?
Our kids (boy and girl) shared a room until ages 3 and 6 and had the same bedtime for many years. I relish the memories of listening in on their bedtime conversations. I would recommend creating a new bedtime routine that includes less television and more quiet activities. Baths and stories are a wonderful start. Is it possible to have dinner earlier and still have dinner as a family? Definitely decrease or eliminate the TV time a bit or watch something less stimulating. Perhaps this could be "toy" time. If they children start pulling toys out after bedtime, take the toys away immediately and remind them that it is time to sleep. You also might give them each a book to "read" in bed. My children were often happy with an earlier bedtime provided they were allowed some time to "read." They felt like it was a later bedtime, but it helped quiet them down.
I completely gave up on trying to get my son to go to bed and stay there when he was 4. The problems started at age 3 1/2...
I threatened him with loss of privileges if he turned his overhead light on after I tucked him in. The next week I took the lamp out of his room when I realized he was turning it on to "read" a story. After a few weeks of no signs of light from the room, I patted myself on the back for making him toe the line...until I realized he was sitting in the closet with the door closed and the closet light on to look at books.
I gave him back the lamp, told him I didn't care what he did after I left the room as long as he was IN the bed and quiet.
Some nights he goes right to sleep. Some nights he "reads". Some nights he plays with his dinosaurs - but he doesn't leave the bed and he is mostly quiet. As long as he seems to be getting enough sleep, he gets this freedom. If he gets too loud, I confiscate the toys/book/whatever.
It may be better for you to adopt some new, more flexible rules that give them some more freedom, and they may be more willing to comply.
The problem with this analogy is that we don't learn to drive with cops following us constantly. We (hopefully) follow the rules even when cops aren't around because we know we should for safety and because we know there are consequences if we don't. Same thing applies to bedtime. It's for sleeping, because we need sleep to be healthy, and if you play when you aren't supposed to, you will face consequences.
Day cares have different procedures from home. Mom and Dad in this scenario need to set up rules and expectations and follow through. Dad doesn't need to sit next to them for them to follow the rules.
Dad must not be getting on to these boys TOO much for playing at bedtime because if he did, they would not still be doing it.
True that we don't learn to drive with cops following us, however we are taught the rules/laws to drive early on and we try hard to follow them as beginning drivers.
Later, when we are driving and there are no cops in sight we tend to drive however we want to drive. Most are prone to speeding and/or changing lanes without signaling and many are apt to roll through stop signs and even fly through intersections when they should be stopping. If a cop was seen nearby most would follow the laws instead of break them. Most drivers who speed will not stop speeding unless they are stopped and given tickets and even then many will not slow down unless they see the possibility of getting stopped.
Same goes for kids at bedtime. They are taught the rules of bedtime as soon as they are able to understand them and they follow those rules since it's all they know.
Later on, they realize they have a choice and with no one watching the kids push the boundaries and do what they want to do as well. They know the rules, no lights on and no talking, but with no one there to remind them, stop them or reprimand them they choose their own rules. The kids are not going to stop without intervention, plain and simple.
A parent sitting nearby is much like the cop running radar, the security guard at the door of the store or the librarian sitting at the desk. They are there to be a visual reminder that rules need to be followed and if the visual reminder isn't enough (for most that's all that is needed) then they are there to verbally caution the offenders and if blatant offenses take place to take action.
This method is not just a child care success. I mentioned the one little boy I used this with recently for nap time, however I also did it with my oldest child when she was the only one 32 years ago for bedtime and simply didn't want to stay in her bed. I also used it with my third and fourth children when they shared a room for about 6 months at ages 3 and 8 back in 2006 for bedtime when they talked and giggled like the OP.
Bottom line...if one understands the actual concept and follows through with it correctly it WILL work and in less than 2 weeks.
Later on, they realize they have a choice and with no one watching the kids push the boundaries and do what they want to do as well. They know the rules, no lights on and no talking, but with no one there to remind them, stop them or reprimand them they choose their own rules. The kids are not going to stop without intervention, plain and simple.
I understand the concept. My personal experience proves otherwise.
OP is off to a good start with his routines. I think two simple changes would help.
The Pokemon/Sonic shows they watch are high-energy and probably are stimulating the kids' imaginations so that they want to keep playing that way after bedtime. If they want to sit together as a family AFTER an outside activity, I would eliminate one show and change it to something more calm.
The outside activity would definitely help. At age 2-3, some evenings we just took the twins out to the backyard and had then run from one fence to the other, not in a race or like laps, but in the playful way in which kids always want to show you how fast they are. Swinging also worked, and chasing us back and forth. Then bathtime and storytime set the stage for bedtime.
I also think based on what he wrote that he is not laying down the law effectively enough.
I am not sure if this has already been suggested before but it appear like they are sharing that "special time" when mommy tucks them in bed and they have the room all to themselves. If the bed time is 8:30 now, how about sending them to bed at 8 PM? Maybe they will still talk and play and turn the lights out at 8:30 like they do now at 9:00?
Also, if they are eating anything high in sugar after their dinner (like a pre-sleep snack), try to avoid it and see if that helps.
Totally forgot I started this thread. I did read all the replies.
I have been sending the 2.5 year old to bed at 8 instead of 8:30 and letting the older boy stay up, but he never falls asleep before his older brother has to go to bed. And the younger one will always still be up by the time the older one falls asleep. It is very rare for him to be asleep before 9:30 anymore. Getting very frustrated. Today I think it was 10 when he fell asleep, yesterday we did get home late (about 9:45) and he didn't fall asleep in the car like the rest of his siblings, and still was up in his room til about 10:30. He takes 2 hour naps from 12-2 at daycare every day, and we have them to daycare by 8
PM usually waking them at 6:30. I have tried just picking him up without looking at him or talking to him and placing him back in his bed, but he is treating it like a game. 2 minutes later he will be right back out of bed. We don't give him sugary treats before bed, well maybe the juice we give him is too sugary. I water it down, though. I dunno! I'm not liking this sleeping pattern. I feel like he isn't getting nearly enough sleep, 10PM-6:30AM is only 8.5 hours and from what I have read 2 year olds need ~12 hours. I also feel like this lack of sleep contributes to his nearly constant whining and crying every time we tell him no. Maybe that's just him being a 2 year old tho.
We have cut the TV time...any TV time is now before dinner. I realized once the 2 girls (6 and 8) could name more Pokemon than presidents, too much TV time.
Totally forgot I started this thread. I did read all the replies.
I have been sending the 2.5 year old to bed at 8 instead of 8:30 and letting the older boy stay up, but he never falls asleep before his older brother has to go to bed. And the younger one will always still be up by the time the older one falls asleep. It is very rare for him to be asleep before 9:30 anymore. Getting very frustrated. Today I think it was 10 when he fell asleep, yesterday we did get home late (about 9:45) and he didn't fall asleep in the car like the rest of his siblings, and still was up in his room til about 10:30.
Hetakes 2 hour naps from 12-2 at daycare every day, and we have them to daycare by 8
PM usually waking them at 6:30. I have tried just picking him up without looking at him or talking to him and placing him back in his bed, but he is treating it like a game. 2 minutes later he will be right back out of bed. We don't give him sugary treats before bed, well maybe the juice we give him is too sugary. I water it down, though. I dunno! I'm not liking this sleeping pattern. I feel like he isn't getting nearly enough sleep, 10PM-6:30AM is only 8.5 hours and from what I have read 2 year olds need ~12 hours. I also feel like this lack of sleep contributes to his nearly constant whining and crying every time we tell him no. Maybe that's just him being a 2 year old tho.
We have cut the TV time...any TV time is now before dinner. I realized once the 2 girls (6 and 8) could name more Pokemon than presidents, too much TV time.
Both of my children gave up naps by the time they were two years old. IF, for some reason they did fall asleep during the day they were always awake until 10 PM or 11 PM or even midnight that night. Perhaps that is the difficulty with your two year old (he has outgrown naps)? Our pediatrician needed to write a letter to the day care center stating that our children were not be "put down for naps" due to medical reasons. That really helped at bedtime.
However, even as preschoolers our children often stayed awake until 9 AM or later and also woke up at 6:30 AM (without any naps). They just did not need a lot of sleep compared to other children.
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