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Old 08-04-2014, 09:38 AM
 
20,418 posts, read 26,539,344 times
Reputation: 13114

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Quote:
Originally Posted by eok View Post
Parents should respect their children and help them become independent. I personally think it would be wonderful to send him to Alaska. Not just to get him out of your way, but also because Alaska is a great place for people that age to become independent. Jobs there pay a lot, because there is a shortage of workers. It's a very beautiful, very wonderful place, and he would always treasure his memories of it. Don't just dump him there. Give him everything he needs to get started there. He is, after all, your son, and you love him a lot more than he presently seems to love you. Don't be fooled by that temporary lack of love. It's just the way teenagers are. He will love you more than ever when he's older. Sending him to someplace like Alaska might very well be the greatest gift you could give him right now. A few years there, and he's likely to come back a completely different person. Unless he decides to stay there forever, which would give you an opportunity to discover the wonders yourself, whenever you visit him there.

"Were you ever out in the great alone
When the moon was awful clear
And the icy mountains hemmed you in
With a silence you most could hear
With only the howl of a timber wolf
And you camped there in the cold
A half dead thing in a stark dead world
Clean mad for the muck called gold
While high overhead green yellow and red
The north lights swept in bars
Then you've a hunch what the music meant
Hunger and night and the stars"

If he doesn't know how to get to Alaska, look at the Alaska state flag. It has a map of how to get there.

On the other hand, if he can afford a good university, and/or can get a good scholarship, all you have to do is make sure it's a long way from where you live, and everything will be fine. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, and all the love he seems to have lost for you will gradually come back.

Like a mother bird, it's your job to find a way to kick him out, and watch him fly.
Why do these myths persist? I have seen so many people literally get stuck in Alaska because somebody told them that great-paying jobs are growing on trees. That isn't the truth.

 
Old 08-04-2014, 09:41 AM
 
43,012 posts, read 88,940,518 times
Reputation: 30256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
Why do these myths persist? I have seen so many people literally get stuck in Alaska because somebody told them that great-paying jobs are growing on trees. That isn't the truth.
In the case of the OP's son, it might do him good to fail and get stuck in Alaska for a while.
 
Old 08-04-2014, 09:43 AM
 
20,418 posts, read 26,539,344 times
Reputation: 13114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tina545 View Post
I try and I can handle my other three children but I find myself unable to set limits on him, he has no fear.
So your idea of effective parenting is using fear to "set limits" on your kids?
 
Old 08-04-2014, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,029 posts, read 1,154,809 times
Reputation: 1982
I think my son has a pretty good chance of being yours in 10 years.

My son (currently 5) is analytical and independent. He needs to learn for himself; he doesn't really accept when anyone tells him that "if you do this, X will happen" - he has to test and test and test.

He's stubborn as heck. Typical consequences (taking away privileges) don't work. When told, at age 4, that rude people don't get to eat with the family so he could either apologize to his sister for calling her a name or leave the table, he got up and did without dinner that night (and it was one of his favorite foods). He needs to win.

He asks a lot of questions - but not always to me. He asks other people, he asks me to read him books, etc. He is building a baseline of knowledge to help him frame his own world view.

By the time he's 15, he will be "out of control", meaning there is likely very little sway I will have over his decisions. I have to trust that by then he will have a very solid understanding of my morals and of how to make good decisions.

I'm pretty sure of all of this because my son and I think pretty much exactly the same. I was a great kid, not because I blindly did what my parents told me to do, but because I chose to be. I could have easily gone the other way, but it didn't fit my goals in life.

Your son sounds like more of a scientist. That's not a bad thing. At this stage, he is trying to explain his world in terms of data, of experiments, and to think away emotions and the soft stuff that doesn't make sense to him. So what can you do about that?

This is what my parents did for me, and what I am doing for my son:

Stop trying to make him think like you. Don't censor his news, etc. Allow him to access the sources of information he values, and provide him with others. TALK. Explain (in conversations, not lectures), why you believe what you do, why emotions are important, why the whole world isn't tightly regulated like a science experiment. Talk about respecting different opinions - and follow through by respecting his right to have his own, just like you expect him to respect his grandparents' rights to have theirs. Talk about how what we see on the surface of a person or a relationship may only be the very tip of the iceberg; people have so much more to them that we don't necessarily see. Those "hidden/invisible" parts of them may be what drive their decision making, and that makes it really difficult to predict what they will do. Talk about how to handle situations where you really don't understand or agree with the other person's point of view, and why it is necessary to have compassion and empathy. You can start with the way you are handling his points of view - and apologize for handling them all wrong (I'm dead serious about this).

Don't let him disrespect you; remove yourself or him from the conversation if he resorts to name-calling. It is entirely possible to have disagreements with respect.

I don't think it is entirely too late, but I think it is likely that you need to completely change how you are handling these situations so that you can model for him the behaviors he needs to follow. This is where IC may be helpful for you.
 
Old 08-04-2014, 09:46 AM
 
20,418 posts, read 26,539,344 times
Reputation: 13114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
In the case of the OP's son, it might do him good to fail and get stuck in Alaska for a while.
A lot of people seem to think of Alaska as their dumping ground.

We're that mythical "farm in the country" where everyone thinks it's cool to drop their unwanted pets off at because we'll feed them and give them shelter.

Getting stuck in Alaska can mean dying -- kind of like what really happens to those pets who get dumped at the "farm."

The state of Alaska used to allocate funds for the purpose of providing transportation back to the -48 for those who got "stuck" because someone told them the streets were paved with gold, so that's an indication of how well that plan usually works out. They stopped paying people's way out awhile back, so even that safety net doesn't exist.

Last edited by Metlakatla; 08-04-2014 at 10:12 AM..
 
Old 08-04-2014, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Texas
42,203 posts, read 49,740,662 times
Reputation: 66975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tina545 View Post
My son is going into senior year and has developed a very callous attitude. This got worse after he took AP Biology and started applying the ideas to human life. For example, he makes jokes about my sister's fertility issues. He has called adoption an institution that allows for gays and steriles to live out their delusions of having kids. Also, he has called religious people including his own grandparents retards. He also said that he only cares about people when he benefits. There seems to be no compassion left in him and it breaks my heart that he sees the world through lens of Social Darwinism. He used to be such a happy go lucky child but that faded as he got exposed to the news and the world around him What should I do?
He sounds like a total dbag but lots of adolescent males are.

He will likely grow out of it once he realizes he doesn't know everything.

Or not.
 
Old 08-04-2014, 09:56 AM
 
16,724 posts, read 13,665,130 times
Reputation: 40996
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tina545 View Post

My brother is one of the most ruthless men I've ever seen, that's a terrible idea. They more or less share the same beliefs.
Then why are you letting him hang out with him? You said he looks up to your brother, and you allowed this to relationship to flourish, knowing what you do about your brother? Too late now. smh

Kick his sorry butt out of the house and let him prove what a smart kid he is.

Last edited by convextech; 08-04-2014 at 10:05 AM..
 
Old 08-04-2014, 10:19 AM
 
43,012 posts, read 88,940,518 times
Reputation: 30256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
A lot of people seem to think of Alaska as their dumping ground.

We're that mythical "farm in the country" where everyone thinks it's cool to drop their unwanted pets off at because we'll feed them and give them shelter.

Getting stuck in Alaska can mean dying -- kind of like what really happens to those pets who get dumped at the "farm."

The state of Alaska used to allocate funds for the purpose of providing transportation back to the -48 for those who got "stuck" because someone told them the streets were paved with gold, so that's an indication of how well that plan usually works out. They stopped paying people's way out awhile back, so even that safety net doesn't exist.
I understand your need to defend Alaska, but this is the parenting forum and the point of the Alaska discussion is this kid needs to be sent to the American version of Siberia for a reality check. Alaska is merely an example. You can substitute it with Death Valley if you feel the need. North Dakota would probably be the most appropriate place to send someone in exile. The airfare would be cheaper. LOL
 
Old 08-04-2014, 10:24 AM
 
20,418 posts, read 26,539,344 times
Reputation: 13114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
I understand your need to defend Alaska, but this is the parenting forum and the point of the Alaska discussion is this kid needs to be sent to the American version of Siberia for a reality check. Alaska is merely an example.
I'm aware of that, but I'm going to dispute misinformation like that no matter where or why it's posted. Since the person was saying that there are plenty of well-paying jobs in Alaska and not enough people to fill them, it was a bit beyond a mere example -- it was an actual suggestion based on something that isn't true. I guess old myths die hard; the pipeline days are decades behind us, and the last significant gold rush was over a century ago.

I'd like to know what kind of "well paying job" a 17 year old high school dropout can get in Alaska. Or even an 18 year old high school grad.

Although getting as far away from his family as possible would probably be the best thing for this kid, he isn't even 18 yet. You don't "just send" a minor to someone else's idea of the American version of Siberia (they're nothing alike, by the way). I have a feeling that when this kid does turn 18, he'll voluntarily put quite a bit of physical distance between himself and his family anyway.

Last edited by Metlakatla; 08-04-2014 at 11:06 AM..
 
Old 08-04-2014, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Denver area
21,134 posts, read 22,102,729 times
Reputation: 35503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
I understand your need to defend Alaska, but this is the parenting forum and the point of the Alaska discussion is this kid needs to be sent to the American version of Siberia for a reality check. Alaska is merely an example. You can substitute it with Death Valley if you feel the need. North Dakota would probably be the most appropriate place to send someone in exile. The airfare would be cheaper. LOL
Well...considering the OP has indicated he hunts etc and survives in backwoods Maine, perhaps he'd be better off in a different version of "Siberia" - maybe you'd like to have him in Pittsburgh?
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