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Old 08-23-2014, 10:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
So one persons anecdotes discounts every other successful person on the planet? Go read outliers.

Ever notice the only people who claim things are mostly due to luck are those who are not successful?
If you don't think that luck is a major factor in success, then you have obviously spent no time at all in the real world.
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Old 08-23-2014, 10:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by psr13 View Post
That's a gross over-generalization. Just about every American I know thinks that it's a combination of factors that leads to success. By the way, there are plenty of Asians who are also Americans.
I was quoting a previous post, not necessarily agreeing with it. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I agree with you that most people believe that success is based on a combination of factors (talent, hard work, luck, and initiative). Also, the post I was referring to, was clearly using "Asian" to refer to people living in Asia, and "American" to refer to people living in America. Again, sorry if I wasn't clear.
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Old 08-23-2014, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeye View Post
I have also experienced a lot of pressure to be a tiger mom. I think its likely regional. I am not a tiger mom, but some of my old friends in my hippy home-town would think of me as a tiger mom. But tiger moms here think I'm a mega slacker
While I can't say that I felt a lot of pressure to inflict things on my child, people all around me were doing just that. Friends and family from my largely blue collar rust belt hometown thought that I was a magnificent parent. People in the new town, not some much.
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Old 08-23-2014, 05:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
I know that. I was just reminding you what I consider to be my criteria for success (the whole premise of this thread is that everyone defines "success" differently), so that you can't just tell me to relocate.
You specifically spoke of career success being dependent on luck. If you are finding that you are not having success at your career because you choose to stay close to family that is not luck. It is a deliberate choice on your part. If you are willing to choose being close to family over career success that is a 100% understandable choice. However, you cannot then say your lack of career success is based on luck. You had something to do with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
Seems to contradict what you said before.
Not at all. Success is deliberately created but not necessarily by working harder than anyone else. You create career success by being more effective than anyone else regardless of how hard you work. You have to recognize and capitalize on opportunities. I think hard work is necessary for success but if all you ever do is work hard you will probably not be very successful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
But getting unlucky once can ruin your career, and getting lucky once can give you a career. Like I said earlier, the owner of my company got lucky once in life, at birth (being the son of the owner of this company), so now he is a multi-millionaire who doesn't have to work. Somebody can get unlucky once: you can get into a car accident and be paralyzed for life. You can develop a serious medical problem through no fault of your own. In my case, if I get unlucky once and lose this job, it ends any chances of living close to family.
This is all true. There are some people who get so lucky or unlucky that it can be a once in a lifetime event. But for most people career success is based on several factors. Luck is one, but not the only one, and usually not the most important one.

Living close to family is a goal of yours but it's not a career goal.
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Old 08-23-2014, 06:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
You specifically spoke of career success being dependent on luck. If you are finding that you are not having success at your career because you choose to stay close to family that is not luck. It is a deliberate choice on your part. If you are willing to choose being close to family over career success that is a 100% understandable choice. However, you cannot then say your lack of career success is based on luck. You had something to do with it.



Not at all. Success is deliberately created but not necessarily by working harder than anyone else. You create career success by being more effective than anyone else regardless of how hard you work. You have to recognize and capitalize on opportunities. I think hard work is necessary for success but if all you ever do is work hard you will probably not be very successful.



This is all true. There are some people who get so lucky or unlucky that it can be a once in a lifetime event. But for most people career success is based on several factors. Luck is one, but not the only one, and usually not the most important one.

Living close to family is a goal of yours but it's not a career goal.
To be honest, I think we are mostly agreeing with each other, at least as far as this thread is concerned.
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Old 08-24-2014, 01:30 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
Fair enough. But would you agree that career success is based on a combination of talent, hard work, and luck? And, would you agree that bad luck can potentially ruin the career of somebody who is both talented and hard working?
Sorry to butt in, but IMO luck determines the cards you're dealt in life. Work and to a lesser extent, talent, determine how well you play those cards. What you achieve in life is based on this combination. Realistic goals will be shaped to a great extent by the cards you're dealt.

Sounds like you may have suffered from some pretty bad luck career-wise. I hope things turn out better for you soon.
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Old 08-24-2014, 06:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
To be honest, I think we are mostly agreeing with each other, at least as far as this thread is concerned.
I think we disagree on many things. To me, luck is part of life but it is not a major determinant of a person's career success. It is part of it but not the totality.

The type of parenting described by the OP can be detrimental to a person's career. If you teach your kids to settle for "good enough" because it is too much trouble to be excellent that will change a person's career success. If you take two people faced with similar situations (bad luck, good luck, no luck) the person who is used to shooting for excellence will usually come out ahead of the person who says 'good enough.'
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Old 08-24-2014, 07:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sydlee View Post
Sorry to butt in, but IMO luck determines the cards you're dealt in life. Work and to a lesser extent, talent, determine how well you play those cards. What you achieve in life is based on this combination. Realistic goals will be shaped to a great extent by the cards you're dealt.
Sounds like you agree with me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
I think we disagree on many things. To me, luck is part of life but it is not a major determinant of a person's career success. It is part of it but not the totality.

The type of parenting described by the OP can be detrimental to a person's career. If you teach your kids to settle for "good enough" because it is too much trouble to be excellent that will change a person's career success. If you take two people faced with similar situations (bad luck, good luck, no luck) the person who is used to shooting for excellence will usually come out ahead of the person who says 'good enough.'
Sounds like you're a Tiger Mother.
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Old 08-24-2014, 09:31 PM
 
15,762 posts, read 13,191,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
If you don't think that luck is a major factor in success, then you have obviously spent no time at all in the real world.
Well, I am the 3rd generation of a family of immigrants who came here from russia with nothing, and built several businesses from the ground up. That was first and foremost handwork. Luck, is always a factor, but it is exponentially less important that hard work and to a lesser degree skill.
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Old 08-24-2014, 09:33 PM
 
15,762 posts, read 13,191,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
Sounds like you agree with me.
Did you even read the post your quoting? You want it to be luck because that means you have no responsibility for how your life has turned out. That is your issue.

Last edited by Jaded; 08-29-2014 at 01:27 AM..
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