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Old 08-30-2014, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Venice, FL
1,707 posts, read 1,061,965 times
Reputation: 2692

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pegotty View Post
I also want to say that my mother used the "tough love" ala John Rosemond philosophy when I was a teen. It didn't work at all. It made me feel alienated from the family and did nothing to inspire or encourage me to do better. It also didn't provide a good example of what they did want from me. It was a complete disaster. I have had many conversations with my mom about parenting because she is very impressed with how kind, thoughtful and generous my own teens are. There is definitely a much better way, but it does take time and a lot of thought. Each problem has its own unique solution. These plug and play parenting philosophies, while popular, don't really work.
I don't consider the John Rosemond method to be tough love - it's common sense parenting. Parents are supposed to teach their children skills to help them through life, and learning that you are not the center of the universe and free to treat others any way you choose is a valuable lesson.

 
Old 08-30-2014, 11:51 AM
 
10,423 posts, read 7,508,792 times
Reputation: 18391
DH is supportive so I am too. Stick to your guns.
Don't yell or react violently because that's what she's baiting you to do. Rise above, Mom! Great teamwork, Parents!
*scratching no kudzu off my list of parents to worry about*
 
Old 08-30-2014, 12:02 PM
 
938 posts, read 1,221,801 times
Reputation: 1418
Mine is 23 now. She is academically gifted and we needed to be three steps ahead with things like this. They are all going to go through the sassy mouth stage and "my parents are the dumbest and most embarrassing people I know" stage. The key to behavior is to train the bad habits out over time and figure out what makes them tick. For our DD punishment was a lack of interaction and the negative attention she was receiving. So being sent to her room, until the next morning (enough books in there to keep her busy for a few hours so that didn't work) and eating apart from the family worked.

I first started explaining to DD that speaking to me in "that" tone was rude (respect your elders has been taught) and that family members treat each other with respect. Try to examine your own behavior that she might be modeling/ imitating. I noticed that during the time my DD was a young teen, I was working long hours and caught myself barking orders at my husband when I came home tired and frustrated after a difficult day. If this is your own pattern, showing lack of respect, it's a good time to modify your own behavior. Your child may even throw this in your face during the discussion. So, those in glass houses should not throw stones.

When our DD did not respond to talking about her rude behavior, we explained that she was not welcome at the dinner table where we expect everyone to be civil and respectful so that every one can enjoy the meal. The next time she came in from school and started the unwanted behavior, I told her to go to her room (take your homework with you) and she had to hand me her cell phone. At the time she did not have a laptop or computer in her room. At dinner time I took her a sandwich and milk, didn't go in there to chat...just dropped off the food and took a look to see if homework was completed. As I passed the room on my way to bed, if the light was not turned off, I knocked on the door and told her it was time for bed and stood outside the door until the light was turned off. I can see her door from my bed so she knew enough not to turn the light back on after I went to bed. I'm pretty sure she was smart enough to have a flashlight in there, but still an inconvenience to her. In the morning it was a new day to start over and try again. She was welcome at the breakfast table as long as there was no groaning about the previous night.

There were also times when we could have planned some family fun on evenings or weekends. We never said "we're not doing this because of your poor behavior", we just didn't plan/do it. As parents we thought it was more important to spend the weekends together doing chores, yard work, and other cooperative and constructive activities. Yes, I missed going to a few things that I enjoy. However, raising a productive and respectful young adult is more important. Now that she's out on her own I have all the time in the world to spend time socializing with friends, eating out, going to local events. We did plenty of these things when she was home, but not as many when we were working on modifying behavior.

Sending a young or pre-teen to their room is nothing compared to what you will face as they get older, toawards 18. They will want to fit in with the crowd in high school and may experiment with parties and friends you would rather not have them associated with. Our DD lost all car privileges for entire year when we found out she had been to a party with underage drinking (and I'm sure she was no angel that night) and then drove home. The worst part was the the parents at the party house had provided the alcohol and were home during the party, and the kids were all in HS so it was clear that they were all underage. It meant that we had to drive her to her job on weekends and anywhere else she needed to go. We did not restrict her social life. But if she needed to meet a friend at the movies, she had to ask us for a lift. We found out later all the stories she had tried out on her employer and friends as to why she was not driving. She had told them things like she was having problems with her contact lenses and that we had to special order a part for the car. No one believed it. She learned quickly that if you violate the law, we will take it VERY seriously. I was disappointed that the "punishment" did not stop her from hanging around with these friends, but eventually after several years they have fallen off the radar as close friends. Some of them did not go on to college in favor of full time jobs. And now she has finished her undergrad locally (and they would still hang out once in a while) and has now moved away for grad school. That pretty much finished off the relationships with the friends who are never going to move away and having a hard time moving up in their careers for lack of education. Many of the "cool" guys she dated are working two jobs, living with lots of roommates to pay the rent (or living in parents' basements), tend to be too busy with video games to skype with her, and have gone on to relationships with other girls. At 22 she is now just figuring out who her real friends are. She always seemed attracted to the "bad boys" and now she is finding out that their lives are just not moving forward to adulthood because of the choices they make in their daily lives. Sad but true. This last year has been personally painful for her as she moves into her career and realizes that she is leavig some "friends" behind. Those friends don't have much to say when she wants to tell them abou the latest conference she went to, how she did a poster presentation, or the latest journal article she is trying to get published. The friends are still living here in our hometown, go out to the bars in their free time, are busy most nights with video games, and are finding it difficult to afford groceries and rent on entry level jobs they are still in after 4 years. Those jobs seemed like nirvana right out of high school. But not so much after 4 years with no other prospects.

My advice is to go with your gut and not worry too much about it. Practice scenarios in your head so you are not caught off guard with the latest unwanted behavior. Talk to other parents in your area that tend to parent as you do. On the other hand, I do not believe in hitting (even a slap across the face is inappropriate for sassy language, itis physical abuse and they may hit back one day) or verbally abusing the child. It's just not necessary. Instead, figure out what they love and restrict it in levels based on the infraction. Yes, my daughter loved using the family car after she got her license and hated not being able to drive for a whole year. And she loves sharing her day at the dinner table and hearing about our activities. So being sent to her room to eat dinner alone was a punishment to her. Every kid is different. And if you don't know what makes your kids tick, then maybe you need to think inwardly about the reasons why you don't know them anymore.
 
Old 08-30-2014, 12:38 PM
 
5,194 posts, read 3,015,647 times
Reputation: 17761
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterseat View Post
DH is supportive so I am too. Stick to your guns.
Don't yell or react violently because that's what she's baiting you to do. Rise above, Mom! Great teamwork, Parents!
*scratching no kudzu off my list of parents to worry about*
I never sent my kids to their rooms without the evening meal. But I did give consequences that sometimes didn't seem to work.

My husband came from a large, disorganized family where the kids pretty much raised themselves and he also has a tender heart about children so our kids knew they could work him when mom put her foot down.

I know part of the secret for effectiveness is mom and dad being a united front and it looks like you have this, OP.

The other half of that would be consistency in applying the consequence.
 
Old 08-30-2014, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,535 posts, read 4,506,751 times
Reputation: 2572
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlking58 View Post
I don't consider the John Rosemond method to be tough love - it's common sense parenting. Parents are supposed to teach their children skills to help them through life, and learning that you are not the center of the universe and free to treat others any way you choose is a valuable lesson.
So do you think other parenting methods, such as my own recommendation don't teach children skills to move through life? Did you think the conversation I said I would have with the child wouldn't teach them that they are not the center of the universe?
 
Old 08-30-2014, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Colorado
18,720 posts, read 4,714,891 times
Reputation: 5333
Never had it done to me or my brothers, never did it to my own kids...I'd take away a privilege, not food.
 
Old 08-30-2014, 03:36 PM
 
10,608 posts, read 13,413,859 times
Reputation: 17163
I never did it because my kid was always on his best behavior when dinner was near.

HOWEVER your punishment was directly LINKED to the fact that you were preparing DINNER and asked for HELP.

So to everyone who thinks it's unrelated I disagree.

It's COMPLETELY related.

In this life we have to WORK FOR FOOD. She's TWELVE FFS, not 4.

Next time she'll remember.

And just for reinforcement, I'd have her do the cleanup all week at least. She should be doing so anyway, regardless of her behavior. Families are cooperative UNITS. Everyone needs a job.

Alternatively teach HER to prepare dinner. Then badger her with talking hahahaha.
 
Old 08-30-2014, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,033 posts, read 98,948,726 times
Reputation: 31502
Quote:
Originally Posted by utsci View Post
Mine is 23 now. She is academically gifted and we needed to be three steps ahead with things like this. They are all going to go through the sassy mouth stage and "my parents are the dumbest and most embarrassing people I know" stage. The key to behavior is to train the bad habits out over time and figure out what makes them tick. For our DD punishment was a lack of interaction and the negative attention she was receiving. So being sent to her room, until the next morning (enough books in there to keep her busy for a few hours so that didn't work) and eating apart from the family worked.

I first started explaining to DD that speaking to me in "that" tone was rude (respect your elders has been taught) and that family members treat each other with respect. Try to examine your own behavior that she might be modeling/ imitating. I noticed that during the time my DD was a young teen, I was working long hours and caught myself barking orders at my husband when I came home tired and frustrated after a difficult day. If this is your own pattern, showing lack of respect, it's a good time to modify your own behavior. Your child may even throw this in your face during the discussion. So, those in glass houses should not throw stones.

When our DD did not respond to talking about her rude behavior, we explained that she was not welcome at the dinner table where we expect everyone to be civil and respectful so that every one can enjoy the meal. The next time she came in from school and started the unwanted behavior, I told her to go to her room (take your homework with you) and she had to hand me her cell phone. At the time she did not have a laptop or computer in her room. At dinner time I took her a sandwich and milk, didn't go in there to chat...just dropped off the food and took a look to see if homework was completed. As I passed the room on my way to bed, if the light was not turned off, I knocked on the door and told her it was time for bed and stood outside the door until the light was turned off. I can see her door from my bed so she knew enough not to turn the light back on after I went to bed. I'm pretty sure she was smart enough to have a flashlight in there, but still an inconvenience to her. In the morning it was a new day to start over and try again. She was welcome at the breakfast table as long as there was no groaning about the previous night.

There were also times when we could have planned some family fun on evenings or weekends. We never said "we're not doing this because of your poor behavior", we just didn't plan/do it. As parents we thought it was more important to spend the weekends together doing chores, yard work, and other cooperative and constructive activities. Yes, I missed going to a few things that I enjoy. However, raising a productive and respectful young adult is more important. Now that she's out on her own I have all the time in the world to spend time socializing with friends, eating out, going to local events. We did plenty of these things when she was home, but not as many when we were working on modifying behavior.

Sending a young or pre-teen to their room is nothing compared to what you will face as they get older, toawards 18. They will want to fit in with the crowd in high school and may experiment with parties and friends you would rather not have them associated with. Our DD lost all car privileges for entire year when we found out she had been to a party with underage drinking (and I'm sure she was no angel that night) and then drove home. The worst part was the the parents at the party house had provided the alcohol and were home during the party, and the kids were all in HS so it was clear that they were all underage. It meant that we had to drive her to her job on weekends and anywhere else she needed to go. We did not restrict her social life. But if she needed to meet a friend at the movies, she had to ask us for a lift. We found out later all the stories she had tried out on her employer and friends as to why she was not driving. She had told them things like she was having problems with her contact lenses and that we had to special order a part for the car. No one believed it. She learned quickly that if you violate the law, we will take it VERY seriously. I was disappointed that the "punishment" did not stop her from hanging around with these friends, but eventually after several years they have fallen off the radar as close friends. Some of them did not go on to college in favor of full time jobs. And now she has finished her undergrad locally (and they would still hang out once in a while) and has now moved away for grad school. That pretty much finished off the relationships with the friends who are never going to move away and having a hard time moving up in their careers for lack of education. Many of the "cool" guys she dated are working two jobs, living with lots of roommates to pay the rent (or living in parents' basements), tend to be too busy with video games to skype with her, and have gone on to relationships with other girls. At 22 she is now just figuring out who her real friends are. She always seemed attracted to the "bad boys" and now she is finding out that their lives are just not moving forward to adulthood because of the choices they make in their daily lives. Sad but true. This last year has been personally painful for her as she moves into her career and realizes that she is leavig some "friends" behind. Those friends don't have much to say when she wants to tell them abou the latest conference she went to, how she did a poster presentation, or the latest journal article she is trying to get published. The friends are still living here in our hometown, go out to the bars in their free time, are busy most nights with video games, and are finding it difficult to afford groceries and rent on entry level jobs they are still in after 4 years. Those jobs seemed like nirvana right out of high school. But not so much after 4 years with no other prospects.

My advice is to go with your gut and not worry too much about it. Practice scenarios in your head so you are not caught off guard with the latest unwanted behavior. Talk to other parents in your area that tend to parent as you do. On the other hand, I do not believe in hitting (even a slap across the face is inappropriate for sassy language, itis physical abuse and they may hit back one day) or verbally abusing the child. It's just not necessary. Instead, figure out what they love and restrict it in levels based on the infraction. Yes, my daughter loved using the family car after she got her license and hated not being able to drive for a whole year. And she loves sharing her day at the dinner table and hearing about our activities. So being sent to her room to eat dinner alone was a punishment to her. Every kid is different. And if you don't know what makes your kids tick, then maybe you need to think inwardly about the reasons why you don't know them anymore.
The OP has raised other kids. I think she knows this stuff. Given that your own daughter got in with a rowdy crowd, it should be obvious to you that no matter how you Proverbs 22:6 Start children off on the way they should go, and even when they are old they will not turn from it. they sometimes make some bad decisions.

And your last sentence was pretty snarky. We've all felt (I think) that our pre-teen and teenage children are strangers to us.
 
Old 08-30-2014, 04:20 PM
 
Location: WI
2,820 posts, read 3,069,593 times
Reputation: 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlking58 View Post
I don't consider the John Rosemond method to be tough love - it's common sense parenting. Parents are supposed to teach their children skills to help them through life, and learning that you are not the center of the universe and free to treat others any way you choose is a valuable lesson.
LOL. Too funny. Well, not really, but it's amusing to me that one would choose to resort to such methods for as typical behavior as this. I fail to see how stripping a child of all of their belongings for some back talk at the dinner table is teaching "skills to help them through life."

OP, one thing I've done in these situations is simply to remove myself or the kid from the situation, as in, "I can't deal with someone who talks to me that way, so you're going to have to go to your room and eat later. I'm not letting you ruin the family dinner," or "You'll have to figure dinner out on your own then, because I'm not up for being spoken to like that."

I think the privilege of eating with the family is an acceptable one to take away, but I wouldn't take away the "privilege" of the food itself. That sends the wrong message, IMO. In these cases, I just let the kid eat when everyone else was done. Or I'd take away a different privilege, like TV.
 
Old 08-30-2014, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Miami Metro
1,009 posts, read 1,233,135 times
Reputation: 881
Just for (albeit a lot) sarcasm? Then I would have been starving.
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