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Old 09-03-2014, 09:20 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 4,713,895 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluescityleon View Post
Then what causes it?
Since this stupid thread keeps coming up on suggested threads, I'm going answer it.

"Does not spanking kids lead to aggressive behavior?"

How absurd does someone have to be to think the cause of aggressive behavior in a child is that he hasn't been held down and smacked by someone four or five times his size? In what possible world is aggression a clear indicator that the child has not had violence foisted upon them? If you truly wish to believe that spanking is not violence, go explain to a biker that you feel spanking is not violent and you would like to experience having someone much larger than you bend you over there knee and give you a spanking.

Spanking is an incredibly lazy tool. Can it create a behavior change? Sure. So can punching someone you don't agree with. In the adult world, that is assault. If you didn't feel assaulted, you didn't get a real spanking.

A better tool is making the child stand facing a corner. There is no stimulation, and it forces them to accept the punishment and think about their behavior. It generates thought, rather than fear that the big person is going to victimize them again.

 
Old 09-03-2014, 12:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
The answer is yes. "He who spares the rod hates his child".
I know this isn't the actual quote, but it drives me bonkers when people use the "rod" from the Bible. In reality, the rod is NOT about hitting/spanking. The rod refers to the staff carried by the shepherds who did NOT beat their sheep with it. They guided them with them which is what we are supposed to be doing as parents. Discipline means to guide...to teach...like the Disciples did...they taught Jesus' word.
 
Old 09-03-2014, 12:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
Are there no Finns that follow the Bible's teaching on child rearing?
Plus the quote about getting the attention of children before the age of 2...Good Lord. SMH

I find your opinion of parenting and child psychology frightening. It's interesting...the only people I know who have trouble with their toddlers are the parents who spank. We NEVER had the issues many people who spank and get frustrated talk about and we have 4 boys. It's about guiding. It's about understanding that they go through ages of exploration and making it so that they can explore safely. If your child gets into the tape and pulls a huge strand out, you don't get mad at your toddler for not knowing any better. You give them the piece they pulled out, supervising them of course, helping them explore it...the smoothness, the stickiness, etc. Then you put the roll out of reach and if you want to be mad at anybody, you be mad at yourself for leaving it out where a toddler who didn't know any better could get it.

Studies have shown that ALL living creatures do best with positive reinforcement. There was a study done by people who wanted to quit smoking where one group wrote down every time they wanted a cigarette and gave in and the other wrote every time they wanted one and stayed strong. The group that wrote down their successes had a higher success rate faster.

Having the children earn things for good choices has a greater impact than punishing them after they've already made a bad choice. For example, thinking about what they could do differently next time (something they have control over) is better than thinking about what they did wrong (something they can't change).

And in regards to "the Bible's teaching on child rearing"...again. That was NOT about spanking your kids. OR your sheep.

Last edited by isis297; 09-03-2014 at 12:33 PM.. Reason: added an example
 
Old 09-03-2014, 01:32 PM
 
Location: California
29,634 posts, read 31,973,225 times
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Apparently my natural superiority and good genes gave me offspring that needed need trips to the woodshed and who are, as adults, still learning. I've had their attention since birth since I, you know, birthed them. Pure magnificence on my part I guess since so many other people (mostly foillowers of the bible strangely enough) have to beat their kids with belts to get their attention. Sorry fools, you are clearly lacking in everything and probably shouldn't reproduce.

It makes me wonder if there is a link between faith/Christianity/bible and just sucking at everything.

::The above was slightly sarcastic for those of you who "don't get" sarcasm, but makes the point ::
 
Old 09-03-2014, 04:56 PM
 
326 posts, read 572,265 times
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I'm a Christian and I don't beat my kids with a belt. Like I said, that isn't even what the Bible says, but there ARE Christians out there who like to misquote or misinterpret quotes for their own benefit since many times even when you point out how they are wrong, they continue to spread the same false information. We use positive parenting here...our children have boundaries, they understand consequences of their actions, but they are LEARNING WHY we behave certain ways vs. just doing it out of fear of being beaten. As a result, the older they get, they still make good choices usually because they thought the decision through and what was right and wrong since I'm not always with them now nor could I probably throw my oldest over my lap even if I wanted to since he's already taller than me.

I think it's even more interesting when parents get mad at their children for their behavior when I see so many adults act like children, lack patience, etc. Seems messed up to expect more from children than they themselves put out there.
 
Old 09-03-2014, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,205,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natsku View Post
So the reason you don't do certain things is because of fear of the punishment, not because you think its wrong to do those things? That sums up quite well one of the issues with using spanking as a means of discipline - it teaches them to merely avoid punishment rather than do right because it is right.
Avoiding punishment is not the noblest reason for good behavior; that is true. But it's simply nuts to say we can therefore dispense with punishment. Most people are not moral philosophers, and even those who are come to the table with a bias in favor of what is convenient to themselves. Punishment bridges the gap between what we expect people to do and what they actually do.

I don't see why, in any case, that argument applies to spanking any more than it would to any other form of punishment.
 
Old 09-03-2014, 11:49 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 4,713,895 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
Avoiding punishment is not the noblest reason for good behavior; that is true. But it's simply nuts to say we can therefore dispense with punishment. Most people are not moral philosophers, and even those who are come to the table with a bias in favor of what is convenient to themselves. Punishment bridges the gap between what we expect people to do and what they actually do.

I don't see why, in any case, that argument applies to spanking any more than it would to any other form of punishment.
I believe the reason his (or her) argument applies more to spanking than to other punishments is that other punishments can be designed to encourage thinking. They expect the child to reflect on their actions. There is an enormous difference between exercising the self control to stand with your nose facing a corner for two minutes and trying to avoid the big person with the stick.
 
Old 09-04-2014, 12:20 AM
 
Location: Finland
6,319 posts, read 5,239,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurtsman View Post
I believe the reason his (or her) argument applies more to spanking than to other punishments is that other punishments can be designed to encourage thinking. They expect the child to reflect on their actions. There is an enormous difference between exercising the self control to stand with your nose facing a corner for two minutes and trying to avoid the big person with the stick.
That's right. Its quite hard to reflect on your actions when you're busy thinking about the beating you're going to get/are getting/have just got. Pain occupies your thoughts above most other things so it doesn't give you a chance to think. Also anecdotally, smacking never made me feel bad about what I did but if my parents talked to me about what I did wrong, showed their disappointment and really talked it through, it would hit my conscience which seems to be rather more effective than hitting the body.
 
Old 09-04-2014, 12:39 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,205,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurtsman View Post
I believe the reason his (or her) argument applies more to spanking than to other punishments is that other punishments can be designed to encourage thinking. They expect the child to reflect on their actions. There is an enormous difference between exercising the self control to stand with your nose facing a corner for two minutes and trying to avoid the big person with the stick.
I don't see why the two events cannot be combined, and in my experience they usually are.
 
Old 09-04-2014, 06:14 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,205,783 times
Reputation: 4107
Quote:
Originally Posted by isis297 View Post
I know this isn't the actual quote, but it drives me bonkers when people use the "rod" from the Bible. In reality, the rod is NOT about hitting/spanking. The rod refers to the staff carried by the shepherds who did NOT beat their sheep with it. They guided them with them which is what we are supposed to be doing as parents. Discipline means to guide...to teach...like the Disciples did...they taught Jesus' word.
Proverbs 23:13-14 says "Thou shalt beat him with the rod." It's pretty unmistakeable. I've been told by Jewish friends that it's as unmistakeable in Hebrew as it is in English. I'm atheist so it makes no difference to me, but I prefer people find out what they are talking about before posting.
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