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Old 09-08-2014, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Kaliforneea
1,210 posts, read 860,144 times
Reputation: 1999

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wow this thread blew up!

We've covered the "line of sight" scenario, where the child under 5 is left in the car, and from a max distance of ~"30 feet", someone goes the ATM, the RedBox DVD, the grocery cart corral, or pumps gas. But the line of sight was always maintained.

Assuming it's not a triple digit temperature day, or a snowstorm in progress, and the windows are vented, the keys are not in the ignition. I think it's acceptable to leave the child (or dog) in the car, as long as the parent does NOT go into a building or around corners. There are enough lines and chatty bluehairs and political petition signature collectors and religious cult recruiters and panhandlers begging for change that I would *never* go inside a post office or 7 Eleven without the child. My post office is staffed by people on valium.

Now let's muddy the waters. My next door neighbor has 2 sets of twin girls under 6. I watch her come home and park in the driveway. Maybe kids are asleep? That could be a very valuable window. If you move them, they may wakeup. Maybe she'll unload the kids first (its STILL one at a time), maybe she'll unload the groceries first... Momma Octopus only has so many arms and eyes...

Who has NOT forgotten their sunglasses or wallet or phone or purse/backpack in the house after loading the kid in the car-seat? But it's about ~30 feet to go back in the house, and technically around the corner, out of sight?

If the fire dept or police have time to be called and actually show up... you were gone more than 5-10 minutes, not some "1 min" action.

The trendy laws were passed because occasionally (about 38 kids per year nationwide) get cooked to death in the car by their negligent parent.

Here's a "heatmap" of fatalities since 1998:
Fact Sheet - Heatstroke Deaths of Children in Vehicles
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Old 09-08-2014, 05:36 PM
 
33,177 posts, read 12,708,182 times
Reputation: 21086
Each of us comes to our own determination of what is safe and acceptable.

If my kids started pitching a fit in stores or restaurants, we left. Other parents are perfectly willing to go about their grim business while their kids holler up a storm.

I didn't leave my kids alone in the car. Where I went, they went. Our kids got into and up to the darndest things. I wouldn't put it past our oldest son to choke on a car seat part. He was, and is, one of the most curious people I have ever run across.

If I had had a couple sets of twins, particularly twins of him, I would have stayed home and had groceries delivered. Unloading them all from the car would have been the least of my worries.

Other parents are perfectly okay with leaving their kids in the car while they run into the bank, the grocery store, back into the house, etc. Whatever works.
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Old 09-08-2014, 07:25 PM
 
2,540 posts, read 3,320,511 times
Reputation: 5542
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryleeII View Post
Look, you'll get no support from me!

I'm disabled, severe arthritis in both hands, knees, hip, back. I ALWAYS took my children with me---that's right---children---I have 2 about a year apart. I never "just" left them for a minute to dash into the store, post office, wherever. What if something happened and I was delayed and no one knew to look for them? Look, if I can do it, NO EXCUSE for anyone else not to
Good for you, want a cookie?

Still doesn't mean you get to decide what every single other parent in the universe should do
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Old 09-08-2014, 07:32 PM
 
43,012 posts, read 89,350,933 times
Reputation: 30265
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUPbud View Post
Here's a "heatmap" of fatalities since 1998:
Fact Sheet - Heatstroke Deaths of Children in Vehicles
That website has lots of information. There are many more deaths in the southern part of the country because it's hotter. Vehicle interior color was the biggest factor in deaths (darker color interiors increase temperature faster).

What's most interesting is the huge increase in deaths after airbags were installed in cars and laws were passed requiring children to be kept in the back seats. That means it became easier for parents to forget about their children because they weren't in the front seat. I wonder if it also means that airbags contribute to increasing interior temperature faster.

Last edited by Hopes; 09-08-2014 at 07:46 PM..
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Old 09-08-2014, 08:36 PM
 
325 posts, read 906,491 times
Reputation: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilCookie View Post
Good for you, want a cookie?

Still doesn't mean you get to decide what every single other parent in the universe should do
+1. Don't get that guy started on what a luxury indoor plumbing is, I'm sure he used a mop and bucket and that was good enough for him, why are we so special with our fancy toilets and running water.
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Old 09-08-2014, 09:28 PM
 
7,526 posts, read 4,500,229 times
Reputation: 8516
No. Never. It is not worth it.
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Old 09-08-2014, 09:29 PM
 
7,526 posts, read 4,500,229 times
Reputation: 8516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
Into a store or post office? No. Out of the car to drop off books at the library box, or a video at Blockbuster (yeah, it's been a while), yes.

I think the laws are murky in most places. The concern now is kids being left in hot cars, and it's a legitimate one.
That is not the only thing which can happen. What if your car gets stolen with your little one in the car?
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Old 09-08-2014, 09:33 PM
 
7,526 posts, read 4,500,229 times
Reputation: 8516
Quote:
Originally Posted by willowtree2222 View Post
I'm not talking about shopping. I'm talking grabbing a free newspaper or at the post office grabbing an envelope or at the library dropping off books or at the DVD rental.
Stuff like that.
My library has a curbside drop box; I have used that. There are drive through pharmacies now, and drive through mailboxes at the post office. "Grabbing an envelope" would require parking and going inside while leaving the car out of sight.
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Old 09-08-2014, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
12,305 posts, read 10,126,830 times
Reputation: 20466
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilCookie View Post
No, it wasn't about "leaving them alone while adults went about their business" It was about leaving them alone for a minute or less while adults were said 10 feet or so away and within eyesight of the car. You physically follow your kids around the playground the entire time (unless they're under 2-3 years old), and not let them play on one side of it while you watch from the other? You check on them in another room every minute or two (as was the timeframe here)?

Being left ALONE for prolonged periods of time, and being left secured strapped into a carseat in a locked car that you can see for a minute are very, VERY, incomparably different.
Leaving children alone while an adult is doing something other than taking care of their kids is exactly leaving them alone while the adult go about their business.

Yes, I do physically move around the playground as they play. I don't like them to be out of sight or where I can't grab them quickly if I need to. And yes, if the kids are in a different room, I do check on them every few minutes. Trouble happens when it gets really quiet.

I'm like this with my nephews/nieces and friends' children as well. Funny how those mom's appreciate that I'm taking are of their kids when they are left in my care. Clearly we don't run in the same circle.
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Old 09-08-2014, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
12,305 posts, read 10,126,830 times
Reputation: 20466
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilCookie View Post
and what if the child is by your side and while you're focusing on the atm, trying to punch in numbers, they dash off onto the road or parking lot? This is a MUCH more likely scenario than them getting hurt while strapped in the carseat
You hold their hand if they're too old to be held. If they're smaller enough to be held, then you hold them. Why is this so difficult?
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