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Old 09-13-2014, 02:58 PM
 
6,461 posts, read 6,108,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
How does one minute turn into ten? What is the difference between leaving a child alone in their bedroom while you cook dinner or do laundry in another room? There are risk involved in a child staying in the car when you go to return your cart or drop off a book or a letter. Taking them with you also carries risks as children can get hit by cars. No matter what, there is risk. So why is this particular specific risk judged more harshly then other risks?
People once didn't use car seats or seat belts. There was resistance to that when it was made illegal.

People used to smoke around their kids, and now most people don't.

There are lots of things that most people now think is wrong, and they didn't before.

There has been a shift in people's perception of the dangers of leaving kids unattended due to a spate of children dying in hot cars. The small danger of leaving your kids unattended is reported on AD nauseum.

Whether you agree that it's wrong or not, you must realize that many people and law enforcement see it as wrong.

If you want to leave your kids unattended for a minute, that's not illegal. Just be sure to be back in time, and realize that the police may be on their way by some over zealous Good Samaritan.

 
Old 09-13-2014, 03:02 PM
 
6,461 posts, read 6,108,201 times
Reputation: 9778
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Where Is It a Crime to Leave a Kid Alone in a Parked Car? | Mother Jones

I think that this is a good point regarding kids being left alone in cars, even for a minute and for things like, dropping a book in the book drop, or returning a grocery cart. There are so many small risks that kids face in life, what is it about this particular scenario that makes it worthy of arrest, or even intervention?

I'm not talking about leaving a young child alone in a car for 10 minutes, or even five, I'm talking about for a minute or two with no keys in the ignition and the kid buckled in.
Why wouldn't you leave your keys in the car if it's perfectly safe to leave your child there? That means you think there might be a car thief or abductor close by. That means you realize there is a chance of danger.

How long does it take for a thief or abductor to break a window?

Also, what are all these errands that only take a minute?

The library- take your child inside and check out new books and return the old ones.

The grocery store- park next to the cart return and you still supervise your kid, keep your child with you and return it, or leave the cart in the spot like 50% of the patrons.

DVD return- does anyone do this anymore?
Anything else?

Last edited by Meyerland; 09-13-2014 at 03:14 PM..
 
Old 09-13-2014, 03:20 PM
 
12,931 posts, read 19,824,518 times
Reputation: 33981
There isn't always an empty spot next to the cart return. Our libraries have always had a box outside to drop return in. Both of those situations require a minute to perform the necessary task.

I am so very grateful my kids are old enough now that I don't have to deal with ridiculous standards of parenting.
 
Old 09-13-2014, 03:36 PM
 
5,516 posts, read 3,370,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyerland View Post
Why wouldn't you leave your keys in the car if it's perfectly safe to leave your child there? That means you think there might be a car thief or abductor close by. That means you realize there is a chance of danger.
Yes, there might be a car thief or abductor close by. But let's look at some numbers.

The number of reported car thefts in the US in 2013 was 697,979.

The number of reported child kidnappings ("a nonfamily abduction perpetrated by a slight acquaintance or stranger...with the intent to keep the child permanently, or kill the child") the same year was 115.

It is over 6000 times more likely that your car will be stolen than that your child will be abducted by a stranger.

Therefore, when leaving your child briefly in the car to return books, take a shopping cart to the corral, or make an ATM withdrawal, you lock the car and take the keys.
 
Old 09-13-2014, 04:36 PM
 
8,546 posts, read 5,273,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyerland View Post
Why wouldn't you leave your keys in the car if it's perfectly safe to leave your child there? That means you think there might be a car thief or abductor close by. That means you realize there is a chance of danger.
Car thefts are most often crimes of opportunity. Leaving the keys in your car greatly increases your risk of having your car stolen. If the keys are not in the vehicle a thief will more then likely move on to an easier target.

Quote:
How long does it take for a thief or abductor to break a window?
How often does this happen? Thieves breaking car windows in parking lots with people around?

Quote:
Also, what are all these errands that only take a minute?

The library- take your child inside and check out new books and return the old ones.
A lot of times, that works, but sometimes you have overdue books and dropping that off at the library in the book return makes the most sense. We are talking about 20 feet or less from the car. How is a child left alone in the car for this quick type of errand at risk?

Quote:
The grocery store- park next to the cart return and you still supervise your kid, keep your child with you and return it, or leave the cart in the spot like 50% of the patrons.
Sometimes that works to park next to the cart return but again why would anyone think it's harmful to leave them in the car for the minute or less that it takes to return the cart? I think that it's probably more risky to have the child with you in the parking lot then locked in the car, in their car seat.

Quote:
DVD return- does anyone do this anymore?
Red Box.
 
Old 09-13-2014, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,091,698 times
Reputation: 18141
Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
For the sake of the argument, how about we eliminate all scenarios where the child is left in a running car? As a previous poster said, only an idiot would do that (only an idiot would walk away from a running car, period) and we are not talking about idiots, but reasonably intelligent and thoughtful parents.
Intelligence doesn't have a lot to do with whether or not someone makes a responsible parent. Obviously, we have some among us who are not responsible and are looking for a stamp of approval from anonymous posters on a forum. A responsible parent doesn't leave their child in the car and walk away. Children should be considered a responsibility and not an inconvenience.
 
Old 09-13-2014, 05:31 PM
 
5,516 posts, read 3,370,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
A responsible parent doesn't leave their child in the car and walk away.
On a prior thread dealing with this topic, at least 50% of parents responded that they saw nothing wrong or unsafe with leaving their child buckled in his/her car seat while walking 10 feet to a library book drop and returning some books. So according to you, at least 50% of parents are not responsible.

It's really a wonder any child survives, when so many have unintelligent and irresponsible parents.

Personally, I'm more concerned about the children with self-righteous and judgmental parents.
 
Old 09-13-2014, 05:47 PM
 
15,762 posts, read 13,195,357 times
Reputation: 19651
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
How does one minute turn into ten? What is the difference between leaving a child alone in their bedroom while you cook dinner or do laundry in another room? There are risk involved in a child staying in the car when you go to return your cart or drop off a book or a letter. Taking them with you also carries risks as children can get hit by cars. No matter what, there is risk. So why is this particular specific risk judged more harshly then other risks?
Are you really saying there is no difference between being left in a car then in your home?

Would you leave your good jewelry that normally is left in your home sitting inside a car? How about a large pile of cash? My grandmother had nearly $50,000 in cash squirreled away in the house. I doubt she or any reasonable person would leave it sitting on the front seat of their car, out in the open, even if the doors were locked. If you say yes at least you are consistent, if not, then you do see the difference.

As for the one minute into ten, between the two threads dozens of real examples were given. There are some in the sources she posted.
 
Old 09-13-2014, 05:56 PM
 
5,516 posts, read 3,370,127 times
Reputation: 13973
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Are you really saying there is no difference between being left in a car then in your home?
The huge difference is that many, many people want your jewelry and your cash, but almost no one wants your child!

And I don't think your examples say much about the safety of homes vs. cars. Your grandmother's $50k in cash may have been "squirreled away" (whatever that means--under the bed?) but burglars generally know where to look. My sister's house in Spokane was broken in to and all her jewelry stolen. Cash and jewels are not safe in a house OR a car because people want to steal cash and jewels. Unlike, you know, children.
 
Old 09-13-2014, 07:10 PM
 
8,546 posts, read 5,273,203 times
Reputation: 9115
Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
On a prior thread dealing with this topic, at least 50% of parents responded that they saw nothing wrong or unsafe with leaving their child buckled in his/her car seat while walking 10 feet to a library book drop and returning some books. So according to you, at least 50% of parents are not responsible.

It's really a wonder any child survives, when so many have unintelligent and irresponsible parents.

Personally, I'm more concerned about the children with self-righteous and judgmental parents.
I agree. It really is difficult for me to understand how some people can be so judgmental and self righteous to boot about something as benign as leaving your kid in the car for a minute so that you can return a cart to the corral. I don't think these people who are so sure that they are better and more responsible parents are dealing with logic in regards to this particular issue, but rather emotion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
The huge difference is that many, many people want your jewelry and your cash, but almost no one wants your child!

And I don't think your examples say much about the safety of homes vs. cars. Your grandmother's $50k in cash may have been "squirreled away" (whatever that means--under the bed?) but burglars generally know where to look. My sister's house in Spokane was broken in to and all her jewelry stolen. Cash and jewels are not safe in a house OR a car because people want to steal cash and jewels. Unlike, you know, children.
Again, I agree. Random kidnappings are extremely rare and when you factor in the child being buckled into a car seat with mom within sight, I'd bet that number would drop to zero.
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