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Old 09-14-2014, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,961 posts, read 98,795,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
I don't know where you are getting the "half a block to a library". Posters have said multiple times on both threads that when they are discussing dropping off library books, they mean in the book drop right by the car. That is why it has been lumped in with the grocery cart corral and an outside Redbox kiosk. 10-15 feet away from the car. This has been clarified multiple times.
Exactly!

@Meyerland: And this was clarified, ie, discussed ad nauseum, many times over in both threads. Yeah, we all misread, but good grief!

 
Old 09-14-2014, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Denver area
21,134 posts, read 22,107,592 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyerland View Post
You are all entitled to leave your small children in the car as long as it doesn't pass the 5-10 minute mark that is deemed illegal in many states.

Yet you just a few posts ago said parents who weren't parked right next to the cart corral should just leave the carts loose in the parking lot rather than push the cart into the corral a few cars away.

Very, very few posters have said they would go further than 10-15 feet away from their car, or enter a building. Almost everyone has said, for purposes of this discussion, that if they "left" their child in the car, the circumstance was to return a cart, drop off a library book in an exterior book drop (not enter the library), use the walk up ATM(in the parking lot) or walk up (in the parking lot) Redbox kiosk. Activities where the car is in full view, literally a few feet away, the task takes less than a minute or two and where the chance of being delayed or distracted is minimal.
 
Old 09-14-2014, 09:26 AM
 
6,461 posts, read 6,096,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
Yet you just a few posts ago said parents who weren't parked right next to the cart corral should just leave the carts loose in the parking lot rather than push the cart into the corral a few cars away.

Very, very few posters have said they would go further than 10-15 feet away from their car, or enter a building. Almost everyone has said, for purposes of this discussion, that if they "left" their child in the car, the circumstance was to return a cart, drop off a library book in an exterior book drop (not enter the library), use the walk up ATM(in the parking lot) or walk up (in the parking lot) Redbox kiosk. Activities where the car is in full view, literally a few feet away, the task takes less than a minute or two and where the chance of being delayed or distracted is minimal.
I still would not leave my child at that young an age. You are welcome to leave yours.

I made choices so I wouldn't have to leave her. I parked next to the cart corral, used a drive up ATM, and returned books with her in tow.
 
Old 09-14-2014, 09:40 AM
 
8,541 posts, read 5,262,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyerland View Post
I still would not leave my child at that young an age. You are welcome to leave yours.

I made choices so I wouldn't have to leave her. I parked next to the cart corral, used a drive up ATM, and returned books with her in tow.
OK, but what exactly are your concerns? A couple of posters have been extremely judgmental about those parents who do choose to leave the child in the car to return the cart, use a walk up ATM or return books to the book drop. I'm just wondering what the danger is? To be clear, we are talking about parents taking the keys with them, not leaving them in the car or ignition all within sight.

I'm concerned because I've seen the shift from my childhood where parents left their kids in cars regularly, for long periods of time, to now where it seems even for one minute, in eye sight is too dangerous. I'm concerned that people are letting irrational fears take over and while these types of scenarios that we are discussing are legal, I wonder what things will be like in another 30 years. Will my kids be prosecuted if they leave their kid in the car for a minute to return a cart? Why is this small risk weighed more heavily then other small risks?
 
Old 09-14-2014, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Denver area
21,134 posts, read 22,107,592 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyerland View Post
I still would not leave my child at that young an age. You are welcome to leave yours.

Thankfully mine are grown. They survived despite the fact that I returned grocery carts 5 car spaces away, returned library books and videos (yes videos LOL) 10 feet away from the car. Just a stroke of luck I guess that Inever had a heart attack while returning the cart and no one ever attempted to break into my car, hot wire it and carjack it with my kids inside while I was walking 10 feet to the bookdrop.
 
Old 09-14-2014, 09:47 AM
 
6,461 posts, read 6,096,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
OK, but what exactly are your concerns? A couple of posters have been extremely judgmental about those parents who do choose to leave the child in the car to return the cart, use a walk up ATM or return books to the book drop. I'm just wondering what the danger is? To be clear, we are talking about parents taking the keys with them, not leaving them in the car or ignition all within sight.

I'm concerned because I've seen the shift from my childhood where parents left their kids in cars regularly, for long periods of time, to now where it seems even for one minute, in eye sight is too dangerous. I'm concerned that people are letting irrational fears take over and while these types of scenarios that we are discussing are legal, I wonder what things will be like in another 30 years. Will my kids be prosecuted if they leave their kid in the car for a minute to return a cart? Why is this small risk weighed more heavily then other small risks?
It is a very small risk, true. It is a risk I can mitigate easily so I choose too.

I don't think people in the past left infants in the car, because there were no car seats back then.

I grew up in the seventies and my mom never left us in the car, because of the heat in South Texas. We just all went with her. Drop boxes weren't a huge thing, as there weren't DVDs or ATMs. In my town we didn't even have cart corrals.

I don't think parents who leave their kids are bad parents, but I just don't see why they do it. It's just not worth it to me. Of course i do live in Houston where there are crimes, so maybe I would feel differently if I lived in Podunk USA.

I don't think either side will ever convince the other to change their mind. The thread asked why I wouldn't leave my kids and I have answered.
 
Old 09-14-2014, 09:58 AM
 
15,743 posts, read 13,171,628 times
Reputation: 19636
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
I don't know where you are getting the "half a block to a library". Posters have said multiple times on both threads that when they are discussing dropping off library books, they mean in the book drop right by the car. That is why it has been lumped in with the grocery cart corral and an outside Redbox kiosk. 10-15 feet away from the car. This has been clarified multiple times.
Many posters in the other thread INCLUDING THE OP stated they are comfortable leaving a small child in the car to go inside a building. If that is not you, than clearly Meyer was not referring to you. But pretending that there are not a significant number of people who are exactly doing why Meyer described is disingenuous.

This whole things is a spectrum with people who leave their children unattended while going inside buildings, shopping, etc at one end and those who will not leave their small children unattended in the car at all at the other. Some of you are fixated on moving the discussion to this magical one minute and sight line mark as if that were some meaningful point. Well it is not illegal, so it is at least meaningful that way. Congratulations. But it was neither the original point, nor a bastion of safety, what it is is a compromise of sorts between convenience and safety. Where you take a small risk in the name of convenience. Ok, go ahead, it is your right but it does not mean that it isn't safer to NOT leave your children in the car unattended. There is no arguing that point. It might certainly be less convenient, especially with larger number of children, and people unwilling to make other choices.

But the horse is dead. You like to leave your kids alone in the car for a "minute" and some of us don't. So what?
 
Old 09-14-2014, 10:09 AM
 
8,541 posts, read 5,262,232 times
Reputation: 9100
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Many posters in the other thread INCLUDING THE OP stated they are comfortable leaving a small child in the car to go inside a building. If that is not you, than clearly Meyer was not referring to you. But pretending that there are not a significant number of people who are exactly doing why Meyer described is disingenuous.

This whole things is a spectrum with people who leave their children unattended while going inside buildings, shopping, etc at one end and those who will not leave their small children unattended in the car at all at the other. Some of you are fixated on moving the discussion to this magical one minute and sight line mark as if that were some meaningful point. Well it is not illegal, so it is at least meaningful that way. Congratulations. But it was neither the original point, nor a bastion of safety, what it is is a compromise of sorts between convenience and safety. Where you take a small risk in the name of convenience. Ok, go ahead, it is your right but it does not mean that it isn't safer to NOT leave your children in the car unattended. There is no arguing that point. It might certainly be less convenient, especially with larger number of children, and people unwilling to make other choices.

But the horse is dead. You like to leave your kids alone in the car for a "minute" and some of us don't. So what?
This was the op for this thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by thursdaymcgee View Post
Spinoff of this thread:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/parenting/2196675-leaving-your-child-less-then-5-a.html

If you would never even for a moment leave your kid to mail a letter, return a DVD, what-have-you, why not? The fear of overheating was cited frequently in the above thread, but it seems most were more akin to "stranger danger." Is that the prevailing fear? Is it kidnapping? Perverts masturbating? Kids getting out of seats? If it's overheating, what about in winter? Or what if someone drives a convertible?

There was discussion of perceived risk vs. actual risk, and I'm truly curious as to where the "call the cops!" line in the sand gets drawn - not where you would call the cops on someone else, but the specifics of where you yourself draw that line, as opposed to the vague "it's not worth it!" that there was a lot of on the other thread.
This is why we are talking about "a minute and in sight". There have been a couple of posters who were very judgmental of parents who do this. Most people agree that leaving a child in the car to go inside of a building is not the best idea in the world. The judgmenatal responses of some for the "one minute" scenario is one that some people (myself included) are baffled by. Some of us are trying to figure out what the rationale is behind such harsh judgment for these types of scenarios.
 
Old 09-14-2014, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Denver area
21,134 posts, read 22,107,592 times
Reputation: 35503
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Many posters in the other thread INCLUDING THE OP stated they are comfortable leaving a small child in the car to go inside a building. If that is not you, than clearly Meyer was not referring to you. But pretending that there are not a significant number of people who are exactly doing why Meyer described is disingenuous.

This whole things is a spectrum with people who leave their children unattended while going inside buildings, shopping, etc at one end and those who will not leave their small children unattended in the car at all at the other. Some of you are fixated on moving the discussion to this magical one minute and sight line mark as if that were some meaningful point. Well it is not illegal, so it is at least meaningful that way. Congratulations. But it was neither the original point, nor a bastion of safety, what it is is a compromise of sorts between convenience and safety. Where you take a small risk in the name of convenience. Ok, go ahead, it is your right but it does not mean that it isn't safer to NOT leave your children in the car unattended. There is no arguing that point. It might certainly be less convenient, especially with larger number of children, and people unwilling to make other choices.

But the horse is dead. You like to leave your kids alone in the car for a "minute" and some of us don't. So what?
I disagree with "many" but I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm mistaken (or our definitions of "many" differ). I'd say "a few" posters indicated they would be ok leaving their child for "a minute" while they left their child in the car and went inside a building. Most (I don't have the time or inclination to count so going on my recollection - again, no doubt that you will go back and correct me if I'm mistaken here) parents clarified that they have no issue leaving their under 5 yo., strapped into a carseat child in the car for literally a minute (not "a minute" ) while they returned a book or DVD or grocery cart within 10-15 feet of the car which was in sight the entire time. Most, if not all (covering my bases here since I don't recall every.single.post) of those parents have not judged those who insist on getting their child unstrapped to walk 5 feet to the ATM. Their business. Unfortunately, that respect for another's parenting and ability to make an informed choice depending on their own situation, has not gone both ways, despite the fact than I have yet to see anyone posting a link to any horrible event that happened while a parent returned a grocery cart and their child was in the car. There have been parents who have insisted that their choices make them a better, more responsible and more caring parent. Some have brought up extreme situations like the possibility of having a heart attack in the parking lot while returning the cart. Or slipping on the ice and knocking yourself out...things that could happen in your very own home (well the heart attack one anyway) and also leave your child unattended. Heck, once in my very own home, I tripped over my own feet while carrying a laundry basket down the stairs and fell. Luckily I didn't hit my head and knock myself unconscious. I still live in a house with stairs and I still do laundry. Despite the risk I put my child in at that time.

I don't give a hoot whether you or anyone else prefers to take your child to the cart return (although not a fan of those of you who leave your carts loose in the lot ). Good for you. Does not make you a better parent though. So yes..."so what". I will agree with you on that part. I am not concerned about those parents who leave their child to return a cart or a book a few feet from the car.
 
Old 09-14-2014, 10:40 AM
 
6,461 posts, read 6,096,745 times
Reputation: 9778
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
I disagree with "many" but I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm mistaken (or our definitions of "many" differ). I'd say "a few" posters indicated they would be ok leaving their child for "a minute" while they left their child in the car and went inside a building. Most (I don't have the time or inclination to count so going on my recollection - again, no doubt that you will go back and correct me if I'm mistaken here) parents clarified that they have no issue leaving their under 5 yo., strapped into a carseat child in the car for literally a minute (not "a minute" ) while they returned a book or DVD or grocery cart within 10-15 feet of the car which was in sight the entire time. Most, if not all (covering my bases here since I don't recall every.single.post) of those parents have not judged those who insist on getting their child unstrapped to walk 5 feet to the ATM. Their business. Unfortunately, that respect for another's parenting and ability to make an informed choice depending on their own situation, has not gone both ways, despite the fact than I have yet to see anyone posting a link to any horrible event that happened while a parent returned a grocery cart and their child was in the car. There have been parents who have insisted that their choices make them a better, more responsible and more caring parent. Some have brought up extreme situations like the possibility of having a heart attack in the parking lot while returning the cart. Or slipping on the ice and knocking yourself out...things that could happen in your very own home (well the heart attack one anyway) and also leave your child unattended. Heck, once in my very own home, I tripped over my own feet while carrying a laundry basket down the stairs and fell. Luckily I didn't hit my head and knock myself unconscious. I still live in a house with stairs and I still do laundry. Despite the risk I put my child in at that time.

I don't give a hoot whether you or anyone else prefers to take your child to the cart return (although not a fan of those of you who leave your carts loose in the lot ). Good for you. Does not make you a better parent though.
I was the one who talked about slipping on the ice. In that instance my child would be inside a freezing car and could die, vs me falling at home and they are in the relative safety of my home with heat. If we were outside my house at the time, she could go to my neighbors house. The danger of winter weather while being locked in a car in a car seat is an actual danger.

The thing about the carts is that about half of all people leave them in the parking lot, so you are going to be mad at a lot of people.

I don't think it makes me a better parent, just a more cautious one. It's such a non issue for me to not leave my kid, just as it is a non issue for you to leave yours.
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