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Old 09-18-2014, 10:48 PM
 
43,012 posts, read 89,161,157 times
Reputation: 30264

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
This is where your nonsense appears. I never said kids shouldn't play outside. I never said they shouldn't be without supervision. That is another fib you made up. My kids played outside in groups, pairs, etc. frequently.
You're very overprotective by my standards. That's my point. Should we call CPS based on our own personal standards or should we be more open minded about how people parent differently than us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
What I said, and continue to say that one of the signs of neglected children is being left alone outside, and the more often it happens or the more blasť the parent, the stronger the sign And that in and of itself, can warrant a call to the authorities.
I disagree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Again, this neighbor may have been a mandated reporter for all we know.
You take "mandated reporter" to the extreme. The mandated reporters who live in my neighborhood would have never reported simply for seeing a child alone outside as described in the OP. Their children play outside alone too. Mandated reporters are to report when they even suspect abuse. The difference between them and you is you suspect abuse over something as simple as a child playing alone with no other indications of abuse whatsoever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
That is the exact reason there are experts who have training to determine if a sign is just nothing or is in fact abuse. You are not one of those experts. Neither am I but what I am is trained to identify signs and mandated to report to the experts so they can investigate using their expertise.
The so called experts make mistakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Omg his ridiculous are you? You are an expert on fitness of a parent yet the trained experts are not?
The woman is not fit to parent children on her own. There's no doubt about that. If her husband ever leaves her, which he very well may, he better darn well take those children with him or I'm calling CPS. While the father lives there, I need more than "the children rarely go outside" to call CPS. I see them and talk to them every day, multiple times a day. CPS just shows up for a few minutes. Until I see or hear anything that escalates my concern, I won't risk ruining their lives by calling CPS simply because they rarely leave the house. I'm just more acutely aware that there may be a problem someday. They are pretty much under my microscope. That's more consideration to the situation than most neighbors would give because most neighbors wouldn't even notice the children rarely go outside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Meanwhile NO ONES LIFE HERE WAS RUINED. The mother In the OP didn't lose her children, she was asked to answer questions, her kids were asked if they were ok, if anyone was hurting them, and so on. It was a textbook case, an allegation was made (potentially by the police), it was investigated, found to not be an abusive home and that was it. Her hyperbole (granted nothing compared to yours) on her humiliation doesn't outweigh the good the current reporting system does to protect abused children.
It doesn't always work out that way.
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica, Ca
5,767 posts, read 3,208,240 times
Reputation: 13581
6 years old and all alone? I'd have to stick my nose in. Better safe than sorry.
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Old 09-18-2014, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Palmer/Fishhook, Alaska
1,256 posts, read 877,728 times
Reputation: 1895
My son is 6, but turns 7 next month, and is now in second grade. He plays in our yard, garage, and rides his bike or scooter up and down our residential street. He knows the boundaries and rules for playing outside very well because we are always consistent about them. He is also a very good boy who listens to his mama and dada!

There are lots of other kids on this street in his same age group and they do the same things pretty much. Can't imagine any of the neighbors here having the audacity to call CPS for something so innocuous as playing outside largely because they all do the same thing.

Our neighborhood basically consists of a long street that forms a horseshoe, so it's not busy like the newer housing developments at all.

If I were the mother in the OP, I'd be livid.

Perhaps there is more to the story, but this is my gut reaction speaking.

Last edited by rhiannon67; 09-18-2014 at 11:19 PM..
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Old 09-19-2014, 01:33 AM
 
3,279 posts, read 3,772,912 times
Reputation: 6149
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
A mother in Texas allowed her six year old son to play outside. A neighbor saw the boy sitting on a bench, 150 yards away from his house and returned him to his mother, letting the mom know that he should be inside with an adult. The police knocked on mom's door a few minutes later and CPS followed up shortly thereafter. CPS advised the mother to not let the boy play outside alone again, not for safety reasons but rather due to the possibility that someone might call the police again.
Texan mother's anger after neighbor calls Child Protection Services because she let son play outside | Daily Mail Online

Is it just me or are these types of stories becoming more common? I think that parents have the right to decide if their child is mature enough to handle playing outside alone. The mother in this case decided that he was. Now, due to a neighbor complaint, she is no longer able to allow him to do something that he surely enjoys and one that she feels is safe. I also wonder what kind of neighbor calls the police for something like this.
I could not agree more, and not only that, I wish it were perfectly 100% legal to take all the busybodies who can't mind their own business and place them on a deserted island at least 3500 miles from the nearest normal human being.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydney123 View Post
6 years old and all alone? I'd have to stick my nose in. Better safe than sorry.
How about--mind your own business. That mother's child, it is HER child, it isn't your child, or CPS' child, or society's child, it is HER child. She should have practically zero accountability to anyone with respect to how she parents her child, and her authority should be just the tiniest eyelash short of 100% absolute. She should be able to look at the police and CPS both and say "my child, my business, now leave me alone" and slam the door in their face. Unless she's locking her child up in a basement, passing her around to every known pervert like a bowl of bread in a restaurant, or burning her with a cow prod, she's untouchable. I think any of us, and that includes me, could understand some involvement in such extreme cases.

Lacking that, she doesn't need anyone butting their Pinocchio-sized nose into her private business--in fact, if I had my way, people who can't mind their own business would be subject to harassment charges. There would be real and tangible ramifications for sticking your nose in other people's business. You aren't being "concerned" at that point, you're being a meddling busybody, and frankly, I'd rank such a person just the tiniest bit above the likes of a North Korean dictator.

Last edited by shyguylh; 09-19-2014 at 01:46 AM..
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Old 09-19-2014, 02:04 AM
 
Location: Liberal Coast
4,271 posts, read 4,995,014 times
Reputation: 3862
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
There are children in park here as well. But that is a gross misrepresentation of what I said, and what the mother in the OP describes herself.

This was NOT children playing in a park. This child was alone and sitting on a bench.

Those are very different things. If you arrived at the park with your own children. No one was there but a six year old not playing, not with anyone else, but sitting alone on a bench, you wouldn't think that noteworthy?
Not a bit. Maybe the child had been playing earlier and was taking a break. Maybe the child likes to sit and look at nature. Maybe it's none of your business.
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Old 09-19-2014, 02:22 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
8,915 posts, read 4,860,322 times
Reputation: 7703
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
...........How about--mind your own business. That mother's child, it is HER child, it isn't your child, or CPS' child, or society's child, it is HER child. She should have practically zero accountability to anyone with respect to how she parents her child, and her authority should be just the tiniest eyelash short of 100% absolute. She should be able to look at the police and CPS both and say "my child, my business, now leave me alone" and slam the door in their face. Unless she's locking her child up in a basement, passing her around to every known pervert like a bowl of bread in a restaurant, or burning her with a cow prod, she's untouchable. I think any of us, and that includes me, could understand some involvement in such extreme cases.

Lacking that, she doesn't need anyone butting their Pinocchio-sized nose into her private business--in fact, if I had my way, people who can't mind their own business would be subject to harassment charges. There would be real and tangible ramifications for sticking your nose in other people's business. You aren't being "concerned" at that point, you're being a meddling busybody, and frankly, I'd rank such a person just the tiniest bit above the likes of a North Korean dictator.
Interesting observation.

Such was a similar attitude, allegedly, of the father in the Andrea Yates incident. Ie, I don't need anyone to tell me how to raise my family.

A and B

A: Such an attitude in response to agencies of the government will probably result in a group of marshals, at least, showing up at one's door very soon afterwards.

B: I tend to believe that the passing of more restrictive laws is often because society does it to its self. Sometimes, it is because members of society will not take responsibility for their actions, doing anything they can to beat the rap. Or in this case, being very self righteous or even sovereign in their approach.

IF SOMETHING DOES HAPPEN, however, then society will ask "how could it have happened?" and politicians will move to pass stricter laws so it can't happen again.
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Old 09-19-2014, 05:51 AM
 
15,797 posts, read 13,220,880 times
Reputation: 19688
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChessieMom View Post
I disagree. Kids can and do get taken miles from home, when there is not even an expectation of someone to "watch over them". They can get taken walking home from school or a friends house. You cannot seriously expect that a child should never be allowed out of the sight of a parent, due to the fact that someone might take them. Talk about living in a bubble.
We are talking about a six yr old. That is very different developmentally than a preteen and like it or not, a different target in terms of abduction or harm than an older child.

No one is saying that kids should be kept inside. No one is saying kids shouldn't be allowed to play without adult supervision. But what many are saying is they(and btw many experts on child safety) find it odd for a six year old to be left alone, with no playmates, or adult supervisionin a park more than 150 yards from his home. And it is a sign of potential neglect. Neglected children are frequently left in situations described by this mother. It is a warning sign, and if someone is concerned about that warning they should call the experts in to make the assessments only they can make.

That does not equal living in a bubble. It does mean that we value the potential good of stoping neglect and abuse, over the potential inconvenience this parent went through.
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Old 09-19-2014, 05:55 AM
 
15,797 posts, read 13,220,880 times
Reputation: 19688
Quote:
Originally Posted by psr13 View Post
Not a bit. Maybe the child had been playing earlier and was taking a break. Maybe the child likes to sit and look at nature. Maybe it's none of your business.
First two absolutely fact. But we as strangers, are fundamentally limited to these snapshots in time. Maybe the kid was with other kids but maybe he wasn't. That is why you call experts so they can figure it out.

Last one not. I am a court mandated reporter. The law says it is my business, not a choice but a legal obligation This may have been the case with the neighbor. Even if someone is not though, all people have the moral obligation to call cps if they suspect abuse. Leaving a young child without supervision IS a sign of potential neglect. So you are wrong, child abuse, even just potential, is everyone's business.
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Old 09-19-2014, 06:03 AM
 
Location: Finland
6,319 posts, read 5,243,143 times
Reputation: 10156
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
First two absolutely fact. But we as strangers, are fundamentally limited to these snapshots in time. Maybe the kid was with other kids but maybe he wasn't. That is why you call experts so they can figure it out.

Last one not. I am a court mandated reporter. The law says it is my business, not a choice but a legal obligation This may have been the case with the neighbor. Even if someone is not though, all people have the moral obligation to call cps if they suspect abuse. Leaving a young child without supervision IS a sign of potential neglect. So you are wrong, child abuse, even just potential, is everyone's business.
But if the only 'sign' you're seeing is a child playing or sitting alone, it is quite a jump to assume neglect or abuse as there is nothing neglectful in itself about letting a child be out alone. You ought to have more to go on than that to make you suspect neglect or abuse.
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Old 09-19-2014, 06:58 AM
 
33,064 posts, read 12,579,857 times
Reputation: 20972
And yet another thread on the societal shift in acceptable parenting practices.

The advocates of free range child rearing describe how they wandered the Limberlost, none the worse for the wear, how overprotective parenting robs children of the opportunity to develop self-reliance skills, how busybodies should mind their own beeswax. They claim the dangers are overstated.

Others post that young children benefit from supervision, that their decision-making processes are still developing and they are more prone to get into trouble if left to they own devices. Plus, how can you protect them if you can't even see them?

One group argues that leaving young children locked in a car while you run quick errands is perfectly acceptable. The other group will call the cops.

Some are perfectly fine leaving their young children alone in a bedroom in a Portugal while they join their friends for dinner at a restaurant a few minutes away. The other group has small sympathy for them when their child is abducted.

One group is fine with whippings. The other group is going OMG.

There is a shift taking place in our collective consciousness. Much like the shift in smoking. I can remember when smokers could smoke any darn where they pleased -- restaurants, airplanes, you-name-it. They had a right to smoke. Now they're practically pariahs.

I think this shift is taking place in parenting.

At one time you could beat your kid senseless and that was your business and nobody else's. Now you're telling your sad tale to a social worker if not a judge. Parents are expected to keep an eye on their kids. Twenty years ago, droopy-diapered toddlers could wander around an apartment complex with nary a parental figure in sight. A 6 y/o could be left in charge of younger siblings at a park. Not so much now.

I suspect we will have countless threads on how much supervision is required. Laws will change. Life will go on.
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