Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
First, you cannot force a child to sleep (well, without medicating them!) so stop trying. Explain to the child that mom and dad need some quiet time and that starts at 8:00PM (or whatever time you decide). So stick with a nightly routine...as mentioned bath, jammies, story book, lights out, nighty night. "You don't have to go to sleep but you must stay on your bed and be quiet since mommy and daddy need quiet too." Be sure to start with limiting fluids afer dinner, do not respond to the child loudly calling for you, crying, begging, if the child comes out of the room do not utter even one word, put the child back on the bed and leave the room. Do not talk to the child about anything because then they know they are getting attention. They will respond to any attention, even negative attention. Do not reinforce this behavior. Seriously, if they are fed, dry, in comfy clothes, and the room is child proofed...what are you so worried about? There were times my daughter would stand on her bed (her "island" she called it) and danced, sang, read books...sometimes she was still reading at 10pm when I went to bed and passed by her door, and sometimes she fell right to sleep at 8pm. But bedtime is bedtime, no arguments, no compromises, we are not negotiating.
Second, the skill you are trying to teach is to put themselves to sleep by themselves, alone. Sitting next to the bed until they fall asleep is not helping. Everyone, babies/children/adults, normally wakeup multiple times everynight. If a person does not have the skill to put themselves to sleep by themselves they may have chronic sleep problems.
You do not need a sleep counselor. You need a backbone. This child has joined your established family, not the other way around. This is your house and you control the resources. What are you going to do when it comes to homework, manners, etc...cave? I understand the whole co-sleeping thing, have lots of friends who do it. I also had lots of friends, before that theory came along, that were still sleeping with 7 year olds who refused to fall asleep by themselves because a parent always caved to crawling in bed with the child. After several years of this they all ended up sleeping in their clothes everynight because they were so tired from work and the kids that they would just sleep all night in the kids' beds.
To make the sleep thing easier I would be sure that the child is napping no more than 90 minutes during the day and getting up at 7 or 8 in the morning. 1-3 hour nap (I'm going with 1-1/2 to be in the middle) and 12 hours at night. So if you put them to bed at 8pm they should sleep until 8am, approximately.
This is the way I do it too. I have a three and a half year old who doesn't fall asleep easily - no way am I going to sit next to her waiting for her to fall asleep! I put her to bed, sing her a song, stick the night light on, cuddle and kiss and leave. She's free to read, sing, play with teddies, whatever she wants and eventually she falls asleep.
You're fortunate that your one and only child is a good sleeper and incredibly obedient. And "no crying"? Wow. I can't imagine having a young child so docile.
May all your years of parenting be so simple and easy!
I do know that I am lucky and appreciate it. I'm convinced this angel of a child will be calling me from the police station when he's 16 because this simply cannot continue. lol
And I don't mean to be harsh on the OP, but really just think you need to stop caving. That's the most important thing you can do IMO.
OP, this thread illustrates just how different every kid and family can be. As for parents that never ever had a problem with kids sleeping on their own, well, there are such obedient, rule-following kids. But sometimes parents have selective memory, so I would take such "well, my child never did such and such" stories with a big grain of salt.
You said your kid currently takes about an hour of your time to get to sleep. In the great scheme of things, an hour a day is not much time, though it can seem that way, especially when schedules are so packed and the to-do list is so long. What does your wife think? Does she agree with you that this hour-long routine must come to an end? Are you two in agreement with what needs to happen? If she doesn't agree, then you two need to decide what you both want to do.
I don't agree that children should be "trained." I do believe they should have consistency in their night time routine. Are you and your wife consistent with the timing of night time activities -- dinner, bath, book time, lights out? Children do well with a routine, but there's no need to be draconian about it. A lot of parents I've known have had success with requiring the child stay in the room, but allowing the child to have the lights on, read, play, whatever. Others insist the child stay in bed but do whatever they want. Still others find neither of these methods work at all. Keep in mind that when I say these methods "worked," that doesn't mean the child actually went to sleep. In some cases, the child stayed up after the parents slept. But for some parents, that's good enough, as it gives them enough alone time to take care of adult business.
Based on what my friend recommended, who said it did wonders for her child, I tried sleep training. Refused to listen as the kid was crying and crying. Went on for hours. Well, this kid eventually piled his blankets and pillows, climbed on top of them, then threw himself out of the crib, and landed head first onto the floor. Wow. I'm such a great parent because I showed him who's boss, right? I didn't cave in, right?
Later on, I found that same friend, who advised me to let the child cry it out, was still sleeping next to her child years later! So much for expert advice. Some parents offer honest advice; others use advice-giving to brag about their accomplishments, whether actual or not.
Every kid is different. In the end, I found leaving the hallway light on, putting on his favorite song on repeat, and of course, having a consistent night time routine worked best. It took a long, long time, though, you really have to be consistent, and you cannot react in frustration or anger. Children are looking for reassurance at night, and parents who lose it in front of their kids aren't really helping in that regard. Stay calm and patient. It may take a short while or a long, long time, and in the end, you may only end up with a kid who stays in his/her room but doesn't sleep. But you can't force anyone to sleep short of drugging your kid to sleep -- and that's not good. You may find certain foods keep your child up at night, or that running around in the park during the day helps them sleep better at night.
Every kid and every parent is different. Good luck.
Thanks for the advice (even the harsher ones) so far.
To clarify a few points:
1) We do have a routine that has basically remained the same over the past 1.5 years. It's maybe 15 minutes long.
2) Our son is spoiled, but he is very sweet and curious and with his personality it's better for all of us to explain things to him rather than force him to do things (I know people will think this is crazy, but like many said, every kid is different). He's now at the age, where if he understands why he's doing something, he's much better behaved/ happier.
Anyway, we spoke to him yesterday and are getting him his own nightlight and agreed to not use the gate if he doesn't come out. He seems nervous at the idea, but we'll leave the gate and door open and let play with his stuffed animals in bed until he falls asleep. I guess we'll try this on Saturday night and will be consistent.
Also, both of us don't mind/ enjoy sleeping with him if/ when he wakes up at say 2AM, but the issue more is of him falling asleep on his own.
Thanks for the advice (even the harsher ones) so far.
To clarify a few points:
1) We do have a routine that has basically remained the same over the past 1.5 years. It's maybe 15 minutes long.
2) Our son is spoiled, but he is very sweet and curious and with his personality it's better for all of us to explain things to him rather than force him to do things (I know people will think this is crazy, but like many said, every kid is different). He's now at the age, where if he understands why he's doing something, he's much better behaved/ happier.
Anyway, we spoke to him yesterday and are getting him his own nightlight and agreed to not use the gate if he doesn't come out. He seems nervous at the idea, but we'll leave the gate and door open and let play with his stuffed animals in bed until he falls asleep. I guess we'll try this on Saturday night and will be consistent.
Also, both of us don't mind/ enjoy sleeping with him if/ when he wakes up at say 2AM, but the issue more is of him falling asleep on his own.
Not a bad thing at all, even if it might make things more complicated now. A child who insists on having things explained to him in a logical manner and who refuses to have things forced on him is a child who will grow up to insist on reasonable explanations and not blindly follow the rules later on just because someone told him/her to. You are blessed with a thoughtful child. Good luck with everything. Even if it doesn't seem that way right now, this issue will pass soon enough.
A routine is key... we've been extremely fortunate that our 18-month old has had a solid night time routine since the age of 6-weeks... and 95% of the time she sleeps 10-12 hours a night without any fuss.
For the past 2 months now the night-time routine has been the same... put jammies on, get her some milk, let her pick out some books, read for a bit.. let her unwind, and then once the 8PM hour arrives we put her down and that's that.
She's basically been "trained" to know when it's time for bed... but it was never forced.
At this point since your kid is almost 4 years old it's obvious he's playing games with you on this... he knows how to push your buttons... not good for you. Need to get control back.....
Thanks for the advice (even the harsher ones) so far.
To clarify a few points:
1) We do have a routine that has basically remained the same over the past 1.5 years. It's maybe 15 minutes long.
2) Our son is spoiled, but he is very sweet and curious and with his personality it's better for all of us to explain things to him rather than force him to do things (I know people will think this is crazy, but like many said, every kid is different). He's now at the age, where if he understands why he's doing something, he's much better behaved/ happier.
Anyway, we spoke to him yesterday and are getting him his own nightlight and agreed to not use the gate if he doesn't come out. He seems nervous at the idea, but we'll leave the gate and door open and let play with his stuffed animals in bed until he falls asleep. I guess we'll try this on Saturday night and will be consistent.
Also, both of us don't mind/ enjoy sleeping with him if/ when he wakes up at say 2AM, but the issue more is of him falling asleep on his own.
Your son sounds like my daughter, both the sleep issues and feeling compelled to explain things to them. My daughter is now in school and we still have sporadic issues with her at both bedtime and sleeping through the night. We have found, with a lot of help, that the following works (not all of this directly applies to your sleeping issues but I think worth sharing based on the similarities you mentioned and it is all inter-related):
- don't explain so much, I know it feels like you are teaching them but it does eventually backfire when they either use reasons back at you or they want to stop and discuss everything (I still have trouble accepting that we're not missing the chance to teach her things)
- instead when you need to have them do something, tell them in a few firm words
- don't use the word "okay" at the end when you are telling them to do something, it implies you are asking them permission when you're really trying to make sure they understand...instead say "do you understand?"; adults know "okay" means but children do not
- as for bedtime, the 15 minute routine sounds great then get out of their whatever way you can; we have found our daughter wants to know that someone will come check on her so we have a deal, we tell her that we will come back 15 minutes and if she is awake we will sit with her for 2 more minutes, if she is not awake (which is generally the case) then we will leave a certain stuffed toy with her so that if she does wake up then she knows we were there...it has taken a bit but now she goes back to sleep without waking us up, in the first days she demanded to know if we really came back in exactly 15 minutes so it may not be easy but it will get better
-f she does wake up in the middle of the night now she knows (for the most part), that she should go use the bathroom and go back to bed, she doesn't need to see us so she can go to sleep; on the rare nights she does come wake us up we are firm and take her back to bed, if we have to again we promise to check on her and it works
We have found overall that giving her too much to think about and too much control actually creates anxiety. I thought that having control would give her less, but in fact it doesn't because there are so many things she can't do and doesn't know about (and she realizes it). The more structure we give her, the calmer she is as she knows what we are doing and what is expected of her. Also she sees that it makes Mommy and Daddy happier people to be around and nicer to each other so it removes any stress she feels seeing us snap at each other. That anxiety could then make it harder to settle down and go to sleep which is why I bring all this up.
Good luck, I know it is not easy. It took a long time for us to get to this point. We did a lot of the same things you did, holding her while she fell asleep, staying in the bed or elsewhere in her room, and all it did was perpetuate the problem.
Also a book that was recommended to us by an MD who deals with behavoir issues may help you: How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish
Not a bad thing at all, even if it might make things more complicated now. A child who insists on having things explained to him in a logical manner and who refuses to have things forced on him is a child who will grow up to insist on reasonable explanations and not blindly follow the rules later on just because someone told him/her to. You are blessed with a thoughtful child. Good luck with everything. Even if it doesn't seem that way right now, this issue will pass soon enough.
That is an excellent point, they just have to find the balance where the child doesn't use it as an excuse to argue back ("but last time you said x and now you're changing it") or as an excuse to stall. We have had that happen many many times but are finally finding the balance point.
As for parents that never ever had a problem with kids sleeping on their own, well, there are such obedient, rule-following kids. But sometimes parents have selective memory, so I would take such "well, my child never did such and such" stories with a big grain of salt.
Except in my case. I'm telling you, the kid is an angel. It is not selective memory. I even look at him in a certain way and he will ask me "Are you happy?" Because if I'm happy, I'm not mad. The is easily one of the most well behaved children on Planet Earth.
Again, not bragging.... just disputing the selective memory comment.
And I assure you he is very much loved (and a bit spoiled).
One other piece of advice we were given, make sure they are getting regular one-on-one time with other kids. Our daughter went to a great pre-school and pre-K, they did an excellent job preparing her for school. However most of the interactions there were in groups and you get all that comes with that (both the fun activities and the cattiness and ganging up). Most of the other kids had siblings or cousins or lots of friends around which our daughter did not, so they knew how to relate as a child whereas our daughter couldn't understand when the other kids just would or would not do things and there was no explaining. It really put her at a disadvantage and made things very hard for her because it also meant she couldn't play the way they would, she wanted details on everything. That also led to a lot of anxiety and affected her sleep. These things didn't really manifest themselves to around age 4 so you may not see it yet but it could be lurking.
We were told the ideal would be one hour once a week of a playdate, be it at the park or someone's house. That is enough to let them figure out something and do it but not enough time for frustration or getting tired. Also it should be with different kids from her class that way if one is not in a mood to play today she can easily seek out someone else without being bothered by it.
While someone mentioned that growing up learning to question things is a valuable skill, so is being able to adapt like that.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
