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Old 10-07-2014, 06:44 AM
 
2,775 posts, read 2,592,969 times
Reputation: 2967

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stellastar2345 View Post
I read this article
Fewer parents helping to pay for college - Jun. 26, 2014

I don't know much about their sources or anything, but it's saying only 77% of parents plan to help their kids out with college.

Why have a kid if you don't want to (or have the means to) help the kid succeed?

Say what you like about college, but good luck moving anywhere without a college degree.

Even a masters degree is becoming a pre req for a lot of good jobs.
Your argument is flawed on many levels:

1) There are many reasons people have children - accident or on purpose, sending them to college isn't the end all be all for most people.

2) The definition of success by parents and people overall is tremendously varied. I don't see landing a job with IBM or "insert corporation name" after college as successful... I see it as one way someone can be a cog in a corporate engine. As a side note I see it as a way to waste a large chunk of one's life in exchange for money (and that's not even including the moral sacrifices which will have to be made to have a "successful career.").

3) The value of a College Degree changed significantly about 20 years ago - you need to wake up if you are still expressing the opinions the Baby Boomers (children born right after WWII ended) they then in turn expressed to their children. The Boomer generation, they were sold hook line and sinker the concept that college education was the way to achieve "success" - and those that did get college degrees (which were unbelievably affordable at the time even with inflation accounted for) landed long term corporate careers. See my #2 though, as it was completely relevant for them as it is today for the rest of us.

I see value in learning, and yet no value in an actual piece of paper with "degree" stamped on it. If you or your children want to learn something, you should and they should pursue learning about it. I don't see any value to parents loaning themselves out for their adult children to go to these ridiculously high priced educational institutions today. Honestly, if there's a will there's a way, and if someone wants to get a particular education enough, they will save and figure it out. If a parent can and wants to help them, then that's cool. But seriously, what a joke to think that parents "have" to pay for their children's college education today... the costs are ridiculous and continue to climb each year well beyond the pace of inflation.

Ultimately, there needs to be a major overhaul to how education is handled in the US. Imparting knowledge should not be about profit, it should be about "sharing" and seeing the improvement of the human race generation to generation.

There is about as much excuse for the US Government using so much money to operate as there is for any University or College today to cost in excess of $10,000.00 per year for a student to literally sit in a building listening to someone's voice. There's a serious problem when instead you see tuitions in excess of $30-$50,000.00 per year with schools also demanding government financial aid for their students. It's a big joke it is so gross... people need to wake up.

No it's not worth paying for, to land a job after graduation that requires you to still be low man on the totem pole, for a job which you still need to be trained 100% on how to do, to earn perhaps $25-45,000.00 per year, for a job that ultimately you don't have a passion for which requires you to give up most of your life for. There's better ways to operate... much better.

Do some research, stop following the masses, share a real opinion, and change the world.

Last edited by belovenow; 10-07-2014 at 07:36 AM..
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Old 10-07-2014, 07:03 AM
 
2,572 posts, read 1,604,749 times
Reputation: 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbuszu View Post
Your argument is flawed on many levels:

1) There are many reasons people have children - accident or on purpose, sending them to college isn't the end all be all for most people.

2) The definition of success by parents and people overall is tremendously varied. I don't see landing a job with IBM or "insert corporation name" after college as successful... I see it as one way someone can be a cog in a corporate engine. As a side note I see it as a way to waste a large chunk of one's life in exchange for money (and that's not even including the moral sacrifices which will have to be made to have a "successful career.").

3) The value of a College Degree changed significantly about 20 years ago - you need to wake up if you are still expressing the opinions the Baby Boomers (children born right after WWII ended) they they in turn expressed to their children. The Boomer generation, they were sold hook line and sinker the concept that college education was the way to achieve "success" - and those that did get college degrees (which were unbelievably affordable at the time even with inflation accounted for) landed long term corporate careers. See my #2 though, as it was completely relevant for them as it is today for the rest of us.

I see value in learning, and yet no value in an actual piece of paper with "degree" stamped on it. If you or your children want to learn something, you should and they should pursue learning about it. I don't see any value to parents loaning themselves out for their adult children to go to these ridiculously high priced educational institutions today. Honestly, if there's a will there's a way, and if someone wants to get a particular education enough, they will save and figure it out. If a parent can and wants to help them, then that's cool. But seriously, what a joke to think that parents "have" to pay for their children's college education today... the costs are ridiculous and continue to climb each year well beyond the pace of inflation.

Ultimately, there needs to be a major overhaul to how education is handled in the US. Imparting knowledge should not be about profit, it should be about "sharing" and seeing the improvement of the human race generation to generation.

There is about as much excuse for the US Government using so much money to operate as there is for any University or College today to cost in excess of $10,000.00 per year for a student to literally sit in a building listening so someone's voice. There's a serious problem when instead you see tuitions in excess of $30-$50,000.00 per year with schools also demanding government financial aid for their students. It's a big joke it is so gross... people need to wake up.

No it's not worth paying for, to land a job after graduation that requires you to still be low man on the totem pole, for a job which you still need to be trained 100% on how to do, to earn perhaps $25-45,000.00 per year, for a job that ultimately you don't have a passion for which requires you to give up most of your life for. There's better ways to operate... much better.

Do some research, stop following the masses, share a real opinion, and change the world.
Good post.

My mother was a single mom that couldn't afford to pay for my college. I joined the military and got my degree through them. I now have a BS degree (perfect name for it) in Marketing that I don't use. However, it got my foot in the door of a really good job that I actually enjoy. That was 25 years ago

It's different now. I have the means to pay for my daughter's college, but after both of us researched things, she decided not to go. Instead, she's going to a few select classes and mostly learn computer programming and video editing on her own. I'm getting her all she needs...books, computer, programs, etc. She wants to have her own company and I admire that.

College degrees aren't what they used to be. I'm also hearing that professors are more interested in writing books and getting grants than teaching anything useful (that's just limited experience talking to the children of friends, etc).
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Old 10-07-2014, 07:04 AM
 
11,616 posts, read 19,756,637 times
Reputation: 12056
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohhwanderlust View Post
I moved out at 17 and paid for my own college tuition. In San Francisco. Graduated last year.

It was brutal, and my grades suffered a bit. I was also so strongly in survival mode that I forced myself to major in Accounting because it seemed safe, despite the fact that I absolutely hated it and didn't get grades high enough to qualify working for a Big 4 firm. Added a major in Economics to give myself a chance at something I enjoyed.

Being a double major while working 2 jobs totalling 60 hours combined just to pay rent with my 4 roommates in a tiny studio....wasn't great for my health. I slept maybe 3-4 hours a night for 4 years. Blacked out from exhaustion a few times. Thought I was having a heart attack once because I drank 3 Monster drinks just to stay awake and that wasn't a good idea lol.

After graduating, I gravitated to an entirely different field, and basically had to start from scratch like I didn't even have a degree at all. Lol.


That said, all of this was so worth getting away from my parents and actually being independent.
Do you think this is what is ideal for most young adults? I don't. I think it is great that you survived it and have been successful in obtaining your education. However, I can't understand why a parent with the means to help their children would choose this type of life for them. I do not understand the mindset of parents with means, who choose to make their children suffer to obtain an education.

I understand that there are parents without means. If parents can't help then they cant. Parents should not be expected to live in squalor to send an adult child to school.

I also understand that there are times when the parent-child relationship is toxic. In such cases it is often better for the child to just get away from the toxic relationship.

For other people I simply do not understand the idea that they day a child turns 18 or graduates from high school he is to be cut loose to fend for himself. I just don't understand it. I understand parents who say they think their child should have some skin in the game and pay for something. But I cannot understand parents who are able to help and simply choose to see their child struggle. It is just a foreign concept to me.
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Old 10-07-2014, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Over yonder a piece
3,761 posts, read 4,312,323 times
Reputation: 5982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlow View Post
I understand the value that comes from working hard for something and believe that children should work and pay for some of their education. But wages have NOT kept up with the cost of education. To the extent I can help my daughter go to college and not come out many thousands of dollars in debt, I'm going to.

I don't agree with the OP's premise that you shouldn't have kids unless you can pay for all of their college expenses, but it's IMO it's not fair to say "I did it so they can do it" when the financial reality has changed so much.
I can help, but a student's expectations should be tempered. If your parents don't have the money for you to attend Princeton, and you don't have scholarships to afford said school, then don't go to Princeton. Why should parents go into hefty debt if the child is not willing to consider Topeka Community College instead?

As I said in an earlier post, we have put some into a 529 plan for our kids, but by the time they are ready to access the funds, it certainly won't be enough to pay four years at a private college. Four years at a community college, most likely. My kids are just hitting middle school, and we are already tempering their expectations.

You want to go to York Tech (local community college less than 20 minutes from our house)? Here you go - your tuition is (probably) covered for all four years. But you are still expected to work part-time to cover your own expenses and pay a modest rent if you continue to live at home. If you change majors part way through that adds a year, you pay for it yourself.

You want to go to Clemson (state school)? Get straight As and seek out all the academic scholarships you can find. Take out as few loans as necessary. We can pay for about two years there. Plan on working part-time while you go to school. Consider going to community college for two years and then transfer in. Try not to change your major.

You want to go to Furman (private uni)? Get straight As, get REALLY good at a sport, and seek out all the sport and academic scholarships you can find. We'll be lucky if we can pay for a year there - most likely we can only pay for one semester. Be prepared to obtain a LOT of loans and have that debt once you have your degree. You will definitely be working part-time while you go to school. Consider a community college for two years and then transfer in.

If my kids go into their high school years knowing these are their options, they'll make their own choice, knowing the ramifications of each. Personally, I hope they go to community college for two years and then decide to either transfer to state school or just stay where they are and finish it out at community college. I really DO NOT want them to be saddled with debt straight out of school, with potentially no way to pay back the loans if they are unable to get a job.
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:15 AM
 
Location: All Over
3,971 posts, read 4,216,531 times
Reputation: 3002
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
So why not go to "an affordable state school?" Work part time, pay part of the expenses - this seems reasonable to me, but so many adult kids I know aren't even willing to do this.
In the Chicagoland the affordable state schools are hours from civilization. Charleston, Dekalb, Normal, not a ton of jobs there and most jobs are fast food. If one were to stay in Chicago and try to work a higher paying job and go to school all teh schools in the Chicagoland area are much more expensive.
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
41,162 posts, read 32,846,148 times
Reputation: 57380
Quote:
Originally Posted by doodlemagic View Post
In the Chicagoland the affordable state schools are hours from civilization. Charleston, Dekalb, Normal, not a ton of jobs there and most jobs are fast food. If one were to stay in Chicago and try to work a higher paying job and go to school all teh schools in the Chicagoland area are much more expensive.
Please don't even try to tell me that adult college students can't work part time and pay part of their expenses. I've never said that parents shouldn't help pay for college - what I have said consistently though is that adults in college (yes, that's anyone over 18) should work part time to pay some of their living/college expenses.
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:28 AM
 
35,121 posts, read 37,937,537 times
Reputation: 61854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
Do you think this is what is ideal for most young adults? I don't. I think it is great that you survived it and have been successful in obtaining your education. However, I can't understand why a parent with the means to help their children would choose this type of life for them. I do not understand the mindset of parents with means, who choose to make their children suffer to obtain an education.

I understand that there are parents without means. If parents can't help then they cant. Parents should not be expected to live in squalor to send an adult child to school.

I also understand that there are times when the parent-child relationship is toxic. In such cases it is often better for the child to just get away from the toxic relationship.

For other people I simply do not understand the idea that they day a child turns 18 or graduates from high school he is to be cut loose to fend for himself. I just don't understand it. I understand parents who say they think their child should have some skin in the game and pay for something. But I cannot understand parents who are able to help and simply choose to see their child struggle. It is just a foreign concept to me.

I suppose you think that every parent who has means should be required to will all of the assets they worked for to their children as well.
Bill Gates is not willing his children any of his assets, neither is Warren Buffet or numerous others who are beyond having means to do so.
They feel their children should earn their own way and be responsible for themselves and not count on a hand out from their parents.
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:31 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,542 posts, read 17,768,121 times
Reputation: 3681
Quote:
Originally Posted by stellastar2345 View Post
I read this article
Fewer parents helping to pay for college - Jun. 26, 2014

I don't know much about their sources or anything, but it's saying only 77% of parents plan to help their kids out with college.

Why have a kid if you don't want to (or have the means to) help the kid succeed?

Say what you like about college, but good luck moving anywhere without a college degree.

Even a masters degree is becoming a pre req for a lot of good jobs.
My parents didn't pay for my college education. i'm succeeding quite well though, and they helped a tremendous amount.
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:33 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,542 posts, read 17,768,121 times
Reputation: 3681
Quote:
Originally Posted by stellastar2345 View Post
To every horror story, there's a good one.

i'm a senior in college, and my parents paid the full amount. However, I've already gotten (and accepted) a job offer from a major company with a decent start salary (60k). It wouldn't have happened without college (and really my parents supporting me).

As a side note, my parents are telling me to give up the job and to continue on getting a masters degree (on their dime).
amazing. i did the same thing, and my parents didn't pay for college. how'd that happen?
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:55 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,517,680 times
Reputation: 47458
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Well, my father's parents did 50 years ago. It was the norm in upper middle class families even then.



I've seen you post about trades being a far superior option to a college education many times before. Going into the trades is a great option for some, but education and employment and income are very strongly correlated.

Earnings and unemployment rates by educational attainment
The stats are old friend and so are you get a job
I good electrician can out earn your master degree Starbucks employee any day
And my electrician has no debt
If you are minority and hoping for that Eddie Murphy rags to riches eeoc slot think again that pond is drying up too
Too many people in the community think if they can dribble they are going to be the next Magic Johnson
Long shot rubbish
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