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Old 10-13-2014, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Colorado
9,744 posts, read 6,273,073 times
Reputation: 17554

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I was trying to make a point...and admittedly, being pretty heavy handed about it.

"If you're not planning and able to pay for your kid's education, you should not have kids" was the premise we started with here. Looking at stellastar's last response to grimclippers, I suppose that G.C.'s parents should just have aborted him/her? G.C. should never have been born? It seems that one is looking down from a lofty, rather snooty intellectual place, a very "let them eat cake" place, and saying that if everyone cannot hope to be aristocratically wealthy, they'd be better off not ever being born at all.

And my point, is that happiness and success come in many shapes and sizes. And that it's a very narrow, very shallow, and very elitest viewpoint that can't recognize that fact. A little disgustingly American, too, in that only the very wealthy could possibly be "successful" or "happy." No way could someone work another kind of trade or live in a modest home, with a loving family, and be a child that a parent could be proud of and consider successful? And where, again, will we be, when all of those peasants die off because no one should birth them, and all we're left with are STEM and finance/accounting, doctors and lawyers? No more plumbers, roofers, artists, musicians, writers, baristas, chefs, cashiers, military, etc etc...? Only the "successful" people deserve to breed.

Fortunately the world doesn't work that way, and I can't imagine it ever working that way.

If one of my sons is driven to pursue a career and they need my help to get there, I'll do whatever I can to help them get there. If it's not enough, if together we can't afford to pay for his education, he might have to take out some loans. I've got loans. Tell ya one thing, the interest on 'em isn't bad at all compared to other forms of credit.

And again, my job experience has taken me much further than people I know who have uber-degrees and no job experience. You optimally should do both if you can. If I had both my job experience and my Mom's master's degree, I'd be making much more money. Not sure what the references to ladies of a certain age was about...? Me, or my mum? I'm only 35. I might go back to school sometime. But I'm doing alright as it is.

Why do people have kids who can't afford this that or the other thing that kid might need one day...? Why do people do anything? People do all sorts of stuff for all sorts of reasons, and none of us gets to dictate what everyone should do. You're not the boss of my life choices any more than I get to judge yours. And if that's having a chip on my shoulder, then fine. I'm just calling it as I see it. I wasn't the one who passed a bunch of judgment on you ladies for having your college paid for and such. I'm happy for you, it's fine that you had that. I'm trying to illuminate the way it comes off when you come to a mixed forum of people from all SES and say that basically only the wealthy should breed.
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Old 10-13-2014, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
10,073 posts, read 9,313,800 times
Reputation: 13128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
First of all, I'll cut the OP a little slack for being young. I give her props for remaining a virgin, too, and for doing well enough in college to be offered a job months before her graduation. Those of you who think this doesn't happen don't know how these things work and are showing your own lack of knowledge.

@Sonic_Spork-I may be making a giant leap here, but I think when people talk about "struggling" they're referring more to financial struggles than to working long hours, although the days of medical residents working days on end w/o sleep are long gone. Physicians in private practice, particularly in some specialties, work more hours than people with typical 9-5 jobs, but again, the days of physicians being on call 24/7/365 are long gone. Even doctors in private practice usually share call with other doctors.

I'm fine that you reject any opportunity to be me. You'd have to get rid of that chip on your shoulder.

As for rialese, some one of these days your/your spouse's successes in middle school/high school aren't going to matter. You, too, have a chip on your shoulder. I said nothing about your husband. Hopefully, your husband isn't encouraging his mentees to forgo college. I have a nephew (by marriage) who dropped out of trade school after a few months to go to work in a car wash. At the time I said "bring back the draft". The draft kept many of the men of my cohort in college, and at least they got degrees. Anyway, this nephew bounced along for the better part of 20 years, getting a new job that he "just loved" every few years. Finally, in his late 30s or early 40s, he found his niche in computer graphics. Then last year, the latest I heard was that he was going to go job hunting b/c there was no opportunity for advancement at his present job. I said to DH (who is related to this guy), of course there's no opportunity for advancement for him. He has no education beyond high school. Well, now he's finally talking about going back to school. Too bad it took him 25 years to figure that out.

Your contractors are probably not getting all the money you pay them as profit, and I'll remind you that $25/hr is only $50K/year.

To both of you- I do know some college graduates who don't seem to be the sharpest tools in the shed. I even know a few doctors in that category. The doctors I know aren't unintelligent as much as seemingly uneducated in certain areas. One I can think of had never heard the term "Merry Widow", or "the shoemaker's children never have shoes" and the word "tryst", for a few examples. I also know some people, mostly women "of a certain age" who are quite intelligent and yet didn't finish college or didn't attend at all. Back in the day, girls/women were not always encouraged to go to college, especially if their parents didn't go. But the proportion of unintelligent college graduates I know is very small.
Whatever. Call it however you see fit, no skin off my back. There shouldn't be the word "only" before $50k. It isn't a princely salary, but it is respectable and is solidly middle classed. Considering that high school grads are supposed to only make $600 bucks per week, $50,000 sure isn't shabby. And I'm not talking about master tradesmen here, I'm talking about handymen. Master carpenters and flooring people make more than $25/hr. and all of it is theirs. In cash. You are right, our accomplishments in middle and high school probably don't matter these days -- OUR WORK EXPERIENCE does the talking for us. He's nearly makes six figures (will probably hit it next year) and he isn't middle aged and I am doing very nicely for myself as well. My point was that judging a person's intelligence based on whether they completed college is silly. And the examples I gave you about my husband and myself still hold water - smart people are smart people. Sure, you can further your education and enhance your intelligence, but I truly doubt that either of us feels intellectually inferior to some person who happened to finish the last two years. Neither of our careers are deadend. We've been in the working world for quite some time and obviously, we have zero regrets with our decisions.

And I don't have a chip on my shoulder. I'm just telling you that just because someone didn't finish college doesn't mean that they are unintelligent. And FYI, what my husband tells his mentees is that they have options in life. He doesn't espouse one thing over the other, but not having a college degree doesn't mean that you should fritter your prime years away at low wage jobs. Get a skill. Learn a trade. Do whatever. I want my girls to go to college. But if they don't want to, they have options that don't involve "trysting".

Last edited by riaelise; 10-13-2014 at 04:54 PM..
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Old 10-13-2014, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,971 posts, read 98,814,535 times
Reputation: 31381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
I was trying to make a point...and admittedly, being pretty heavy handed about it.

"If you're not planning and able to pay for your kid's education, you should not have kids" was the premise we started with here. Looking at stellastar's last response to grimclippers, I suppose that G.C.'s parents should just have aborted him/her? G.C. should never have been born? It seems that one is looking down from a lofty, rather snooty intellectual place, a very "let them eat cake" place, and saying that if everyone cannot hope to be aristocratically wealthy, they'd be better off not ever being born at all.

And my point, is that happiness and success come in many shapes and sizes. And that it's a very narrow, very shallow, and very elitest viewpoint that can't recognize that fact. A little disgustingly American, too, in that only the very wealthy could possibly be "successful" or "happy." No way could someone work another kind of trade or live in a modest home, with a loving family, and be a child that a parent could be proud of and consider successful? And where, again, will we be, when all of those peasants die off because no one should birth them, and all we're left with are STEM and finance/accounting, doctors and lawyers? No more plumbers, roofers, artists, musicians, writers, baristas, chefs, cashiers, military, etc etc...? Only the "successful" people deserve to breed.

Fortunately the world doesn't work that way, and I can't imagine it ever working that way.

If one of my sons is driven to pursue a career and they need my help to get there, I'll do whatever I can to help them get there. If it's not enough, if together we can't afford to pay for his education, he might have to take out some loans. I've got loans. Tell ya one thing, the interest on 'em isn't bad at all compared to other forms of credit.

And again, my job experience has taken me much further than people I know who have uber-degrees and no job experience. You optimally should do both if you can. If I had both my job experience and my Mom's master's degree, I'd be making much more money. Not sure what the references to ladies of a certain age was about...? Me, or my mum? I'm only 35. I might go back to school sometime. But I'm doing alright as it is.

Why do people have kids who can't afford this that or the other thing that kid might need one day...? Why do people do anything? People do all sorts of stuff for all sorts of reasons, and none of us gets to dictate what everyone should do. You're not the boss of my life choices any more than I get to judge yours. And if that's having a chip on my shoulder, then fine. I'm just calling it as I see it. I wasn't the one who passed a bunch of judgment on you ladies for having your college paid for and such. I'm happy for you, it's fine that you had that. I'm trying to illuminate the way it comes off when you come to a mixed forum of people from all SES and say that basically only the wealthy should breed.
Well, here is the OP. It's not as radical as you make it sound. I have bolded what I think is the key point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stellastar2345 View Post
I read this article
Fewer parents helping to pay for college - Jun. 26, 2014

I don't know much about their sources or anything, but it's saying only 77% of parents plan to help their kids out with college.

Why have a kid if you don't want to (or have the means to) help the kid succeed?

Say what you like about college, but good luck moving anywhere without a college degree.

Even a masters degree is becoming a pre req for a lot of good jobs.
You want to get off on this philosophical argument about "what is success" and frankly, I agree with you. There are many people out here in Colorado working in computers who say sure, they could make more working in Silicon Valley, but who wants that lifestyle, where, for many companies, you get to choose which 16 hours of the day you want to work, and which 1/2 day a week you want to take off.

As I said earlier in this thread, while I frequently read about people here on CD who either kicked their own kids out at 18 and never gave them another penny, or were kicked out by their own parents, etc, I have never met such people in real life. The parents who say they won't help with college often let their kids live at home for free, and buy them a car for commuting purposes. And so on.
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Old 10-13-2014, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
10,073 posts, read 9,313,800 times
Reputation: 13128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post

And again, my job experience has taken me much further than people I know who have uber-degrees and no job experience. You optimally should do both if you can. If I had both my job experience and my Mom's master's degree, I'd be making much more money. Not sure what the references to ladies of a certain age was about...? Me, or my mum? I'm only 35. I might go back to school sometime. But I'm doing alright as it is.
Exactly. At this point, we have enough work experience in our respective industries to hold our own. Neither of us has to excuse our lack of a degree. I probably will finish my degree (on my own nickel) once my kids are older, but for the both of us, it would be for personal achievement only.
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Old 10-13-2014, 05:31 PM
 
1,640 posts, read 3,179,968 times
Reputation: 3467
My parents didn't help me through college. I graduated debt free with scholarships and financial aid.

My husband's parents paid for his education. Except he dropped out halfway through his sophomore year. He has never attained a degree. He does, however, make excellent money in a professional job.

Our oldest daughter is heading off to college next year, and we are going to help her. But I feel like it's important for kids to have some of their own money invested as well. I have known quite a few people who pissed away their college educations because they weren't the ones paying. I want my kids to feel like it's their investment, too. I hope this will encourage them to do well.
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Old 10-13-2014, 06:37 PM
 
468 posts, read 432,153 times
Reputation: 1114
Put the kid through life lesson first. I will help with some of it. But you must help pay half of it. See how bad the kid wants it. And no don't let him/her/it live home rent free.
A college education is completely useless if they don't have "life skills.".
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Old 10-13-2014, 09:14 PM
 
19,580 posts, read 7,957,342 times
Reputation: 6494
Quote:
Originally Posted by RosemaryT View Post
My 2nd husband (my *last* husband) put himself through college 7,000 years ago (late 1970s). He was very poor (Appalachian poverty), got a scholarship, but also worked as a janitor for several years. Hard times, but good life lessons. He's been a litigation attorney for 30+ years now.

When it was time for his son to go to college, my husband spent many tens of thousands to put his son through four years of college. He didn't want Junior to have to work like he'd worked. (Boy, I could write an entire essay on that.)

Well, that story did not have a happy ending.

Even if you have the money to pay for a child's degree, it's not always a good thing.
If you sign up for being a parent it means you also take on the responsibility to give your kids the best education they can get. That is part of a parents job.
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Old 10-13-2014, 10:00 PM
 
6,308 posts, read 4,769,309 times
Reputation: 8437
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimClippers View Post
I am currently facing this. While my parents would love to help and have as much as possible they cannon. Their combined salary is less than a years tuition. As such I was forced to leave school to pay off student loans before continuing my education. Now at 22, I am completely independent; home,food, car, insurance, and phone I alone pay. At the same time FAFSA believes that because I am under 24, have no children, and am unmarried, my parents should be responsible for paying for my school. It is because of this policy that many programs are unavailable to me.
Congratulations on your independence; but there's no such organization or agency as FAFSA, so it can't "believe" anything. FAFSA is the name of a form, Free Application for Federal Student Aid, and your school and various agencies use the form to determine your eligibility for various programs. There's a formula that does result in a parental contribution for students under 24, but there are exceptions made all the time. (Suppose your parents were dead, or in prison?)

Take this up with your school. *They will have heard of this problem before. That's what they do all day.*
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Old 10-13-2014, 10:04 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,415,357 times
Reputation: 47455
the new sin, failing to cosign for a student loan.
who are the entitlement people????
no not down the street. look in your son's bedroom.
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Old 10-14-2014, 03:29 AM
 
Location: New York
40 posts, read 25,425 times
Reputation: 39
i don't blame any parent who decides not to pay for their child's education. currently i am at the point where i no longer receive financial aid because i was forced to go to college before i was mentally/emotionally ready and squandered four years wanting to just socialize. my mother's refusal to pay was something that i understood and did not question (except when i asked for money for textbooks and didn't receive it, which made me not even finish the semester), didn't even doubt. if she had paid for my education, she would've been out tens of thousands of dollars, and for what? a music major who still most likely would have been working in a retail store, folding sweaters?

please. i'm a kid and i agree that paying for your child's education is not always a great idea.
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