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Old 10-14-2014, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Loudon, TN
4,892 posts, read 4,208,296 times
Reputation: 16245

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I guess I'm an anti-intellectual....that's pretty funny actually. And all these years people have been calling me an egg-headed, liberal, intellectual, smarty-pants.
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Old 10-14-2014, 09:21 AM
 
9,018 posts, read 7,946,526 times
Reputation: 14414
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiannon67 View Post
Sure it is. The willingness to sacrifice builds the character needed to achieve real success. Their situation sounded a lot like my own. Living a cush life at home under the parents' roof doesn't help build character, sorry. Most older generations get it because they were expected to help themselves. Coddling wasn't part of the status quo then. I RESPECT a person like that poster FAR MORE than a person whose cushy life was set out before them by their parents. How the hell can you gain any real wisdom in life if the concept of even the tiniest struggle in life is so objectionable? Talk about living in a bubble..

Why don't you ask them.

Helping a kid out is one thing. Being EXPECTED to bankroll the kid well into their 20s while they're living at home to boot is beyond the pale. Somewhere along the line that kid has to flee the nest. Nowadays people are taking the maximum number of years possible to do just that.

I wonder what they're gonna be like in a few years.....uniquely naive will be my guess. Not sure this will bode well for society at large.



I agree completely. It SHOULD be affordable. However the act of figuring out how to make college financially happen for you via working, scholarships, grants, or loans, or some combination of all of the above.... if college is indeed what you wish to strive for.... is in itself, a great wakeup call to reality. You learn how to figure things out on your own. I believe this is a valuable lesson for the young adult. It certainly was for me.
This is something that I'll never understand- how the parents who keep their
kids at home until they're like 30 years old...
all the while footing the bills for the most part & enabling them to be in denial
that they have got to grow up & take responsibility for their lives.
Omg it's insane.
Because those parents are only prolonging the fact that at some point in the kids life-
the parent will be gone.
Leaving the kid totally unable to support himself- or they're only going to be able to
get at best a minimum wage job.
What a joke- I consider anyone who does this a failure as a parent.
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Old 10-14-2014, 09:23 AM
Status: "Even better than okay" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
51,188 posts, read 50,480,930 times
Reputation: 60066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Yes, I've met you, and I'm glad. And I said "all these", not one or two. I posted yesterday about how I know, IRL, several people, mostly women, who did not go to/finish college b/c many young women "of a certain age" (mine) were not encouraged to go to college, or to continue on if they felt discouraged.

Sure I know about secretarial school. When I was in HS, while you were back in jr. high or maybe elementary school, girls were usually asked if they wanted to be a teacher, nurse, or secretary, at least in the steel mill town I grew up in. The latter two did not require college education, but going to a trade school. (You could also go to college for these careers. In fact, a private "junior college" in my area with a heavy emphasis on secretarial programs expanded to become a master's degree granting institution. Nurses had their choice then of hospital run trade schools [diploma programs] or bachelor's degree programs. The former were far more popular, by at least 2:1. But I digress.)

A very good friend of mine now in her 50s (what a baby!) says she wished her parents had "made" her keep going when she wanted to drop out in the first year. She's now in a situation that's about as good as it gets for someone with a HS diploma, but again, she's not going any farther. As I've said on this forum many times, the director of nursing of a hospital (for example) is not recruited from the CNA ranks.

I do think men have it a little easier. They tend to make more than women no matter the educational level. But I did give the example of my nephew, who is also "stuck".
LOL, Oh, I know YOU know about secretarial school. We're all of a certain age, but I guess I AM a bit of a younger sister here. How nice!

You are absolutely correct that women were not encouraged to go to college as much as men. My sister graduated from HS in 1968. If you look at her yearbook, so many of the girls list "Marriage" under their post-high school plans.
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Old 10-14-2014, 09:42 AM
 
7,497 posts, read 9,272,211 times
Reputation: 7394
Because it's all about them. They want to have a baaaaybeeee, and don't think about the kind of future and life he or she is going to have.
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Old 10-14-2014, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,961 posts, read 98,776,620 times
Reputation: 31371
Quote:
Originally Posted by believe007 View Post
This is something that I'll never understand- how the parents who keep their
kids at home until they're like 30 years old...
all the while footing the bills for the most part
& enabling them to be in denial
that they have got to grow up & take responsibility for their lives.
Omg it's insane.
Because those parents are only prolonging the fact that at some point in the kids life-
the parent will be gone.
Leaving the kid totally unable to support himself- or they're only going to be able to
get at best a minimum wage job.
What a joke- I consider anyone who does this a failure as a parent.
And how many people do you know who do that (bold)? I do not know anyone who has done that or is currently doing so. I have one friend whose son lived at home until about 30, but he worked at a professional job (computers of some sort), paid his own bills and contributed to the household. Then he met a woman, moved to Cleveland (yes, Cleveland!) and has since bought a house. I have a neighbor who is living at home now, but she is also working a professional job. She tried a roommate situation but it didn't work. Last I knew, she was saving money for a condo. My kids, most of my friends' kids and my kids' friends all live on their own. Some have lived at home for various periods of time to save money for downpayments, rent deposits and the like.
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Old 10-14-2014, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Colorado
9,734 posts, read 6,265,376 times
Reputation: 17549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Well, here is the OP. It's not as radical as you make it sound. I have bolded what I think is the key point.



You want to get off on this philosophical argument about "what is success" and frankly, I agree with you. There are many people out here in Colorado working in computers who say sure, they could make more working in Silicon Valley, but who wants that lifestyle, where, for many companies, you get to choose which 16 hours of the day you want to work, and which 1/2 day a week you want to take off.

As I said earlier in this thread, while I frequently read about people here on CD who either kicked their own kids out at 18 and never gave them another penny, or were kicked out by their own parents, etc, I have never met such people in real life. The parents who say they won't help with college often let their kids live at home for free, and buy them a car for commuting purposes. And so on.
Hey hey, if you're ever up for a novel experience, I live in CO too! I was booted out of the nest at age 18 just as soon as I graduated high school. I had a tiny apartment and a part time job in a pharmacy and no car. I had no idea how one even went about getting into a college, but a vague impression that there was no way I could afford it. I had zero support. My "respectable" family had decided I was no good and gave up on me, and my not-so-respectable Mom shortly after moved to the house I was renting with her horde of cats and hispanic boyfriend who was closer to MY age and caused it to be flea infested. I fled the situation with my man and my little baby and wound up on a Greyhound bus, homeless, traveling to Iowa where his family lived with only what baby stuff we could carry. I got my husband to teach me how to drive (I didn't know until I was 24) and started doing office work as a temp. We were in a motel that my MIL paid for, for one month before we found employment and got a little apartment of our own. Then Wells Fargo hired me and I worked there 8 years, and later transitioned into energy management analytics. I did part time college for a while but dropped out when I was almost through my associate's because I had a catastrophic computer crash and lost a bunch of material I needed for my "portfolio" to finish that last class and graduate. (Learned the hard way about backing up files but this was years ago when I was less savvy.)

Point being, I clawed my way up to a middle class lifestyle without the help of my parents. And the hardships I survived to get here taught me a lot about what setbacks I can cope with and survive. They made me feel a lot stronger, I believe the modern word I want is "empowerment." Since those days, I've taught myself how to build computers, I've taught myself a lot about basically any topic that I fancy. I never stop learning. I'm friends with rockstars but I'm a nerd through and through with my science fiction and D&D games. I know plenty of college grads who are not as proudly "intellectual" as I am...and particularly as a female, who gives not one hoot about being the "hot chick" and is more into thinking and doing.

As for being a parent...through forgiving my own parents their "failings" and parenting my own kids, realizing that my Mom and Dad are just human...one thing is glaringly clear. Parents usually do whatever they believe is the best that they can with the tools that they have. Some parents have a box of pipe cleaners to work with, some have a whole garage full of belt sanders and drill presses and a big ol' shiny red metal case full of hammers and wrenches. But the good intentions are usually there regardless. Dew Drop Inn mentioned the tattoo artist. It's true, you can do very well as one of those. I looked into it (as simply a means to do art for a living)...but here's the rub...it's not an easy path. You not only need talent, you need people skills, and not only all of that, you must learn your craft usually as an unpaid apprentice working for free for at least 2 years. Then if you're very good and play your cards right you can get your name into the community and become successful, but you had better be ready to live, eat, sleep and breathe tattoo art for the duration. The artists who are in demand are booked out years in advance and have no time for anything but their craft. If one of my sons wanted to do that and demonstrated believable levels of commitment, I'd probably let them live with me during their apprenticeship rent free. But I think each parent has to KNOW their kid and judge wisely how much help is really helping, and not enabling.

(Sorry for being such a novel writer in here, concise was never my strong suit.)
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Old 10-14-2014, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,961 posts, read 98,776,620 times
Reputation: 31371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
Hey hey, if you're ever up for a novel experience, I live in CO too! I was booted out of the nest at age 18 just as soon as I graduated high school. I had a tiny apartment and a part time job in a pharmacy and no car. I had no idea how one even went about getting into a college, but a vague impression that there was no way I could afford it. I had zero support. My "respectable" family had decided I was no good and gave up on me, and my not-so-respectable Mom shortly after moved to the house I was renting with her horde of cats and hispanic boyfriend who was closer to MY age and caused it to be flea infested. I fled the situation with my man and my little baby and wound up on a Greyhound bus, homeless, traveling to Iowa where his family lived with only what baby stuff we could carry. I got my husband to teach me how to drive (I didn't know until I was 24) and started doing office work as a temp. We were in a motel that my MIL paid for, for one month before we found employment and got a little apartment of our own. Then Wells Fargo hired me and I worked there 8 years, and later transitioned into energy management analytics. I did part time college for a while but dropped out when I was almost through my associate's because I had a catastrophic computer crash and lost a bunch of material I needed for my "portfolio" to finish that last class and graduate. (Learned the hard way about backing up files but this was years ago when I was less savvy.)

Point being, I clawed my way up to a middle class lifestyle without the help of my parents. And the hardships I survived to get here taught me a lot about what setbacks I can cope with and survive. They made me feel a lot stronger, I believe the modern word I want is "empowerment." Since those days, I've taught myself how to build computers, I've taught myself a lot about basically any topic that I fancy. I never stop learning. I'm friends with rockstars but I'm a nerd through and through with my science fiction and D&D games. I know plenty of college grads who are not as proudly "intellectual" as I am...and particularly as a female, who gives not one hoot about being the "hot chick" and is more into thinking and doing.

As for being a parent...through forgiving my own parents their "failings" and parenting my own kids, realizing that my Mom and Dad are just human...one thing is glaringly clear. Parents usually do whatever they believe is the best that they can with the tools that they have. Some parents have a box of pipe cleaners to work with, some have a whole garage full of belt sanders and drill presses and a big ol' shiny red metal case full of hammers and wrenches. But the good intentions are usually there regardless. Dew Drop Inn mentioned the tattoo artist. It's true, you can do very well as one of those. I looked into it (as simply a means to do art for a living)...but here's the rub...it's not an easy path. You not only need talent, you need people skills, and not only all of that, you must learn your craft usually as an unpaid apprentice working for free for at least 2 years. Then if you're very good and play your cards right you can get your name into the community and become successful, but you had better be ready to live, eat, sleep and breathe tattoo art for the duration. The artists who are in demand are booked out years in advance and have no time for anything but their craft. If one of my sons wanted to do that and demonstrated believable levels of commitment, I'd probably let them live with me during their apprenticeship rent free. But I think each parent has to KNOW their kid and judge wisely how much help is really helping, and not enabling.

(Sorry for being such a novel writer in here, concise was never my strong suit.)
I'm glad you've done so well and I'm glad you've forgiven your parents. I have forgiven mine, too, for a few things. That's called "maturity" I think.
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Old 10-14-2014, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Central Wisconsin
15 posts, read 11,471 times
Reputation: 34
I put myself through college, and so did my siblings. Three of the four of us also put ourselves through graduate school. I think you appreciate your education more and are a more serious student when you are paying your way through.
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Old 10-14-2014, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Colorado
9,734 posts, read 6,265,376 times
Reputation: 17549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madisson View Post
I put myself through college, and so did my siblings. Three of the four of us also put ourselves through graduate school. I think you appreciate your education more and are a more serious student when you are paying your way through.
Many here have said that paying a kid's way through college fosters an attitude of entitlement and that they won't be as serious about it or as successful.

I will argue that this is not always the case. I think parents just have to know their kids well enough to make the right call at the time. Maybe raising them to take for granted that college will be paid for isn't the right way to go. But helping them when the time comes might very well be.

I did poorly in high school because I didn't care about it. It was not my choice to be there and I did not care about what "the establishment" expected of me. It had to be my own choice and my own doing, and I do think that I did better when in college (even though I didn't graduate--it was because I stopped, abruptly, not because I wasn't doing well) because I was paying for it and it was entirely on my own steam. I was a 4.0 student before I called it quits.

But I've also known high school students who did very well, who would likely go on to do very well in college. I've known young people who were very sure of the path they wanted in life. I do think it's fine and good for parents to help out these students financially as much as they can. I'd like to hope that the kids would consider helping their parents out in old age though, after so much was invested in them.
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Old 10-14-2014, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
40,879 posts, read 32,642,286 times
Reputation: 57005
Here are a few more things for the OP to consider:

1. Not everyone defines "success" as the same thing. For the OP, apparently "success" is defined as a high paying, white collar job after obtaining several degrees, and making sure that her own hypothetical child or children follow the same path. Actually, there's nothing wrong with that scenario - societies need successful, skilled, educated people in all walks of life, including white collar, professional jobs. But this is just one definition of success, and to be honest, there are plenty of responsible, happy adults and parents out there who would find that whole process and future excrutiatingly boring to even contemplate, let alone resign oneself to for the rest of one's life.

2. There is nothing at all dishonorable or ignorant or inferior about building a successful career in the trades, or as a tattoo artist, or in the oil field, or in construction, etc. One of the most successful men I know has no college degree at all, started off driving a bread truck after high school, and now owns about 175 Burger Kings. He's not particularly sophisticated, and he's not particularly well read, but he's smart, he's driven...and he's successful in both his professional and personal lives. I know MANY small business owners who don't have college degrees, but who have exactly what it takes to run a small business successfully, and who support their families very comfortably doing so.

3. Success isn't determined by income or social class. And good parenting isn't defined by whether or not a parent sets up a college fund for each child when they're born - or whether or not they help them financially while they're in college. While I think it's important for parents to help their adult kids transition from high school into continuing education of some sort, or into a career - I don't think it's a prerequisite for parenthood for parents to be willing and able to completely fund a full 4-8 years of college for each child.

4. As soon as the OP needs some plumbing or extensive landscaping or electrical work done on her hypothetical house, she'll realize how important it is for many people to pursue careers in the trades. I just hope she doesn't allow her superiority complex to be too apparent to those who she hires to do the work. They'd probably think that attitude laughable...and pitiful...and I'd really hate for her to embarrass herself, even if she's clueless that it's actually happening.

5. Some kids DO NOT WANT to go to college and in fact are not cut out for college. That's a simple fact. Some kids, and some adults, are not able or willing to be successful in obtaining a college degree - but that doesn't mean that they can't or won't be successful.

As I've said from the start, true success (and by that I mean success that is accompanied by deep personal satisfaction and healthy relationships with others) boils down to character - not degrees, and not even intelligence for that matter.
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