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If your parents have sufficiently prepared for their retirement, then sure why not. I don't think a single poster here has a problem with your parents paying for your education if they can really and truly afford it, it's your attitude that is exceedingly objectionable.
Not that I don't have serious objections to OP's general attitude, but the previous poster did express that she shouldn't accept it (as has at least one another).
Personally I think it would be stupid not to accept it as long as they can afford it and want to, particularly if the alternative is going into debt.
However, this is only applicable if she wants it herself. This is key here as well - there are plenty of parents who try to live vicariously through their adult children and control their adult children. Some use money to do it. She said she wanted a job but then decided to pursue a graduate degree based on what her parents said. My advice depends on whether she wanted to go and was happy about the offer to pay for it or she just decided to go because that's what they want.
Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 10-08-2014 at 10:26 PM..
Heh, I don't consider myself a moralizer at all. I do know that I am not footing the bill for my kid's graduate school whether I have the money or not. Almost all of the people I know got their MBAs on their own nickel. I wouldn't even expect my own parents to pay for my graduate school, plus my room and board, food and everything else. That's just me. I am fiercely independent, always was and always will be, so pardon me if I can't exactly relate or nod my head. Like I said upthread, I didn't want anything to tether me to my parents and the minute I got a "real job" I was on my road to my own life. I controlled myself. I had some debt in the form of student loans when I was younger, and I paid it off. I had a big debt called a condo in my early 20s but I ended up selling it for a nice profit, so things just work themselves out. I said parent fail because your attitude sucks and quite frankly, that's not how I want my girls to turn out.
I hope you do appreciate your parents more because you totally came across as the pampered, entitled princess who sure likes to take. I do hope you 'give' in the future. And realize that just because other parents aren't like yours doesn't give you the right to condemn them and wag your finger telling them what they should or should not do.
This thread has made me really appreciate my parents more. They obviously care more for my success than most of you care for your children's success. It's very sad to me that this isn't a norm, but it is what it is.
it is entirely unfair to measure a parent's love for his children by his ability to fully fund their college experience, and I'm going to stop there, because I'm starting to get wrapped around the axle over this thread. I'm happy that you are receiving financial assistance from your parents and impressed that they have the wherewithal to help you to the extent you've indicated. You are very fortunate, and I hope that when you express your gratitude here in the forums that you're not just paying them lip service. What they are giving you is extraordinary. It really is. Most young people aren't nearly so fortunate, and, trust me, it's not because their parents are Scrooges. Please tell me that you are not so deep in your bubble that you can't see that.
Last edited by randomparent; 10-08-2014 at 10:56 PM..
Yes i pose this question again, is it that parents are not responsible or love there children? Or is it that a college education is crazy over priced? Remember there was a time where tuition to state higher education was free in this country and when it was we had the most educated workforce in the world.
Further i also think most parents don't have a problem with supporting there children or wanting to pay for college. I think there is a big chunk who just doesn't care for the methods being used in the name of our children to make people responsible vs being parents. But thats another topic.
Yes, it's parental failure to pay for graduate school. How dare my parents try to make my life better when they have the means to. They should be making me struggle. It builds so much character being in thousands of dollars worth of debt and struggling to pay bills throughout your life.
This thread has made me really appreciate my parents more. They obviously care more for my success than most of you care for your children's success. It's very sad to me that this isn't a norm, but it is what it is.
So, you think it is fine to keep blowing through your parent's funds- that they worked hard to earn- and then your future employer's?
Ok, here goes.
As far as I got it, there are two or three issues here: cost of education and how to manage it, family members financially helping each other, and probably the raising of a responsible person who can go their own way and earn their own living.
Here we have several state-financed areas, and education is one of them. Theoretically anyone can have one higher education for free, but they need to pass college/university exams, and naturally the better the university, the more people want to go there. It's not uncommon to have a ratio of 1/10 (people who managed to pass).
On the other hand, you still need expenses&housing, and most, if not all, parents are prepared to pay for these. Here it's really best to allow only a moderate amount a month, because 1) the child learns to count money and 2) doesn't have enough for expensive amusements that will interfere with the studies. And yes, why do I say child? Because I, for example, started at university at 16, and there were some 15-year-olds with me.
Lots of students start working in their 3rd to 5th year, but that's really more for job experience than money. I didn't and regret it, though my mother was actively against it.
The time of your studying is limited - from 4 to 6 years in different universities/fields, and if you don't pass any of the exams (each term) you are kicked out and have to start again, so even the laziest people have to do something
As for family help, it's probably a cultural difference. We have a bit more close-knit families and include more people into the word. And it's always okay to ask for help and offer help if you can - I know this sounds like a criticism of your ways, please don't take it as such... I only mean that here it's sort of accepted that if you're alone against the world, you'll be much worse off, so people keep together.
For example, another state-financed area is retirement pension. And it's almost impossible to keep ends meet on the money they pay, unless you were a big government stick or worked in some insanely dangerous area where survivors are entitled to lots of compensation. So I absolutely expect to support my mum through her retirement, and would still have thought the same even if she had never been able to help me financially in small ways.
This probably deals with the responsibility too - everyone knows that in this country, your parents are going to need you when they are old, everyone is fine with that and therefore doesn't feel bad about parents' help when young.
Yes, it's parental failure to pay for graduate school. How dare my parents try to make my life better when they have the means to. They should be making me struggle. It builds so much character being in thousands of dollars worth of debt and struggling to pay bills throughout your life.
This is actually on you, not your parents. Any reasonable adult would be ashamed if it were known that their parents were still paying their way after 23. That's just as sad as some 40 year old living in his Mom's basement. Maybe it's not true for some people, but I think you'll find that most people would not want to have a relationship or associate with an adult so totally lacking in pride and independence. Like breastfeeding, there's a point at which relying solely on your parents for financial support becomes pathological.
This is actually on you, not your parents. Any reasonable adult would be ashamed if it were known that their parents were still paying their way after 23. That's just as sad as some 40 year old living in his Mom's basement. Maybe it's not true for some people, but I think you'll find that most people would not want to have a relationship or associate with an adult so totally lacking in pride and independence. Like breastfeeding, there's a point at which relying solely on your parents for financial support becomes pathological.
I guess you missed the part where I said my plan is to work and go to school [btw, I'll be making 60k/year. College wasn't wasted on me because my parents paid my way. I'm also pretty sure I'm not the only one. ], but that's really besides my point. I'm also not saying parents need to pay for graduate school. I also never said that parents need to pay 100% of college costs, but that got pinned on me anyways. I said that college is a new necessity of the modern world ( there's only like 4 people here who claim success without a college degree and they were all over 50. Since America became a fully service economy, it has become a different world. The rest told a story of how they struggled to get a college degree. The path to middle class life started with the college degree. )
Why would you willingly let your kid struggle this much to get this degree? So far the answer is "build character" or "retirement is more important". I personally have worked a part time job throughout college. It hasn't really built any character into me, so I don't really see that, but whatever. Saying retirement is more important is putting yourself first. A lot of what I do, I do with the idea that if I have a kid, I want the kid to have a nice life and a decent chance at success. Like I'm not studying what I love in college, I'm studying what is practical and marketable. I want the ability to provide well for my kid (if I have one).
Personally, I think the more logical answer is to not reproduce. I don't want to create a child just to see him/her struggle. I really don't know anyone who pays for college fully by themselves who isn't struggling more than what is necessary. Is the kid who is now 100k in debt to land the same job as me in a better position?
Granted necessary in this case is subjective. Someone here was talking about taking ice water baths in order to stay focused in school because they worked so much and had so much homework they couldn't get more than a few hours of sleep a night. It's really weird to me that a parent would think this is good and want their kid to live like that. I'd rather not have a kid than allow him/her to live like that anytime during their lifetime. No one needs that kind of stress.
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It's pretty short sided of anyone to think just because you're financially dependent on your parents at 23, it's equal to someone living in their mom's basement at 40. For example, 23 is around the age of a 1st year medical student. If someone's parents are paying for medical school, would you consider this person a loser? Because that's exactly what you are saying. By the time that person is 28/29, s/he is going to be making well into the 150k+ range (probably more with the aging baby boomers). I highly doubt they will need their parents then.
Maybe I live in a different world than you, but I would like to associate with doctors. I find them immensely successful people.
It doesn't seem like you are thinking much in the long term nor are you looking at the bigger picture . Sure, a 23 year old with no plans for the future or getting a graduate degree in medieval studies (or the like) living on their parents dime may or may not amount to much. I'm not really arguing that.
In case you didn't know, analytics is an up and coming field, and it's pretty common to make around 100k/year after a few years of working the field after graduation. The program will cost a total of 75k, but the rate of return is high. My parents care to invest in my future. They are supporting me now while I get my education. Once I fully complete it, I'll be more than able to support myself.
To be honest, I think this is a class difference. I'm very sorry to have bought this topic up in this forum. This obviously isn't the place for it.
Last edited by stellastar2345; 10-09-2014 at 02:33 AM..
I don't have kids. I don't plan to. But, if I ever fell madly in love with a guy enough to even consider..
Hell YES I will damn straight pay for their college education + master's and beyond.
Anything for education and academia is true personal freedom; what more can I give to another human being I love? A great life that hopefully society values!
Everybody is free to decide for themselves if they will pay for part or all of their child's post-secondary education.
There are many reasons why a parent that can afford to help might refuse. However, I am getting a little tired of hearing the "helping them pay for it is bad for them" excuse. I'm sorry, but t really does sound like an excuse to me.
I'm sure a lot of people really believe it, but they believe it because they want to believe it. It's convenient to believe it. Just like people in some third world countries believe that hard labor is good for little children, and going to school makes them spoiled. Just like Victorians believed that "children should be seen and not heard". We believe things that are unproven because they are convenient for us. People who don't want to spend money on their kids, will believe that doing so is bad for them.
I grew up with a father that always preached about how it was bad for parents to help adult children. I had been hearing this from him all my life, and heard the same thing on TV, so I just assumed it to be true.
He followed that policy in life, and gave us very little financial help with things. We believed that he didn't help because he believed it would be bad for us. But in retrospect, he should have. His lack of help didn't do any good for any of us, but it did do a lot of harm.
Here's an example. He offered to co-sign for a loan to help his oldest son start his own business. He was so proud of his son for wanting to follow in dad's footsteps. But on the day of the bank appointment, he didn't show up. The bank officer called to find out why he wasn't there, and he said that he decided it would be best if his son made his own way in life without help from his father. (A couple months later we learned that he secretly married wife number 3, so I'm pretty sure she had something to do with that broken promise.)
Everybody thought that was disgusting. It's bad enough that he broke his promise, but to just stand his son up like that and not say anything about it until the bank officer called to find out why he wasn't there, to embarrass him like that!? That is just horrible. He broke my brother's heart, and shattered his dreams. He became very depressed after that, lost interest in his work, and started drinking. He went from an ambitious, intelligent, hard-working young man with dreams of growing a huge successful business, into an alcoholic and schizophrenic, that now lives off taxpayer support because of mental health issues. He destroyed his son. I think Dad knew it too, but it was too late by then.
Things like that taught me that Dad's "helping kids out is bad for them" philosophy was seriously flawed, but I still thought that at least HE really believed it.
Then I see his will. A trust fund to help his kids with education, to buy a home, and to start a business. Plus when the youngest turns 22, everything left in the trust fund would be divided equally among them, to spend on ANYTHING they want.
All these years that he preached that parents should not provide any financial assistance to their kids because then they don't learn the value of work, but that philosophy wasn't reflected in his will! Doesn't this trust fund "enable" the kids? What about inheriting millions of dollars in stock when you turn 22 to do anything you want with? Doesn't that "enable" them? He wants his kids to learn responsibility and the value of work while he's alive, but doesn't give a damn about it after he's dead?
It seems so hypocritical. I mean, if he really believed that we should learn the value of work, then why wasn't that part of the conditions of his will?
This isn't something he made up out of regret either. Mom said he had the exact same will when we were kids.
It's quite clear to me now that his "helping kids is bad for them" BS was just an excuse to avoid spending money on us while he was still able to enjoy it himself. If he really did believe in that "helping your kid hurts them" bs, his will would follow the same philosophy. It was just an excuse he used to hoard his money, so he could spend more on his wives and girlfriends.
So excuse me for wondering just how many people who use that as an excuse are just selfish, but don't want to admit it. I wish my dad would have just admitted he was selfish, instead of trying to pretend he loved us as much as he loved his money. I would have had more respect for him if he had been honest. Maybe I should be grateful he left us in his will? But I'm just disappointed that he lied to us all those years.
That said, I really don't care if other people refuse to help their child through college. I'm just getting a little annoyed at seeing how many people use this excuse though. Just admit that you're selfish.
It seems like a real slap in the face to people who want to help their kids, but can't.
Last edited by tlarnla; 10-09-2014 at 03:07 AM..
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