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Old 10-11-2014, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Conroe, Texas
62 posts, read 68,134 times
Reputation: 304

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
Gosh where do you live? Sure this happens from time to time but it is the exception not the rule. Maybe your tolerance level is low.
My tolerance is very low for children who sample food with their fingers in buffet style restaurants.
However, I do take time to compliment parents whenever I encounter well-mannered children.

 
Old 10-11-2014, 03:04 PM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,362,165 times
Reputation: 32238
Quote:
Originally Posted by peep531 View Post
My tolerance is very low for children who sample food with their fingers in buffet style restaurants.
Texas is sounding worse and worse.
 
Old 10-11-2014, 03:28 PM
 
17 posts, read 15,388 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
Gosh where do you live? Sure this happens from time to time but it is the exception not the rule. Maybe your tolerance level is low.
yes it's a geographical thing. kids are raised differently based on location.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick
They is so very strange because in my half century on the planet I have seen truly bad public behavior only on rare occasions from tiny tykes.
then you must not know what's going on under your nose. there are books, magazines, research papers, TV shows, cases studies, articles, heck every type of media you can think of has something about child misbehavior, of which a good chunk is dedicated on how to react to children misbehaving in public.

I find it very hard to believe that you have been on this planet for 50+ years and only seen children misbehave "only occasionally", especially if you have kids of your own. That doesn't make sense at all, and certainly doesn't add up. Even if you lived in a foreign country. kids act up all over the world (obviously).
 
Old 10-11-2014, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,976 posts, read 11,801,828 times
Reputation: 14677
Quote:
Originally Posted by worriedman View Post
yes it's a geographical thing. kids are raised differently based on location.




then you must not know what's going on under your nose. there are books, magazines, research papers, TV shows, cases studies, articles, heck every type of media you can think of has something about child misbehavior, of which a good chunk is dedicated on how to react to children misbehaving in public.

I find it very hard to believe that you have been on this planet for 50+ years and only seen children misbehave "only occasionally", especially if you have kids of your own. That doesn't make sense at all, and certainly doesn't add up. Even if you lived in a foreign country. kids act up all over the world (obviously).
Perhaps you need to define what you consider to be "acting up"?
 
Old 10-11-2014, 03:44 PM
 
519 posts, read 556,665 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
Perhaps you need to define what you consider to be "acting up"?
I think maybe you need to define what "acting up" means to you.
 
Old 10-11-2014, 04:27 PM
 
8 posts, read 15,863 times
Reputation: 67
Well, *I* find it disgusting that society in general is expected to put up with every idiot parent who thinks that little Johnnie or Janey's every childhood instinct must be tolerated at the expense of everyone else in the universe's sanity. Children may be at whatever developmental age, but they understand and learn what they are taught. If they are taught nothing, then nothing is what you get back, in spades. Plus the bonus that they will grow up to be self-absorbed, selfish, thoughtless jerks. If you teach your children manners, then (ooh -- magic!) they will have manners. If you have expectations of them and tell them you have expectations, then they will attempt to meet them or know that they will face the consequences. Good for the lady in the mini-van with the 4 kids. I was raised like that, and I in turn raised my son like that. I promise he grew up to be a fine, normal young man with nary a stunted development in sight. Meanwhile, if I catch your kids raising hell in the supermarket, you can damn well bet I'll be the ogre who thunders "WHERE'S YOUR MOTHER?" at them. Step on anyone's toes? Oh, my bad. Not.
 
Old 10-11-2014, 04:32 PM
 
8 posts, read 15,863 times
Reputation: 67
And Pegotty, I would find it hard to believe that you actually have kids of your own, with your idealized version of what childhood should be. I suspect you of being an observer in this game.
 
Old 10-11-2014, 05:06 PM
 
1,058 posts, read 1,709,347 times
Reputation: 1371
Quote:
Originally Posted by pegotty View Post
I find it disgusting that our society is so intolerant of children. Children are at a different developmental level than adults, but they are human beings who should be valued simply for that reason. Children may not yet understand the difference between an inside voice and outside voice. They may have less control over their physical bodies. They may not have mastered empathy and so aren't always thinking about how others are impacted by their behavior. I do think there are places where it is inappropriate to bring children too young to not be a disruption...the symphony or a show not intended for young children or certain restaurants. However, I in no way think they should be hidden from society until they are adults.

This thread reminds me of a painting I saw in a museum once. It was these little children in the victorian era, dressed like little adults. They were expected to act like adults at that time. The looks on their faces was so sad. I've seen that look on modern children with heavy handed parents who also think they should be "seen and not heard."
I don't think anyone was advocating hiding children from society. I have two kids, I left more than one restaurant when it became clear that my little darling was not ready for the experience. We removed them from church and never thought of taking them to a movie until it was appropriate for their viewing and we knew they could sit through the entire thing.

Children are not born knowing how to be an adult and thus should not be put into positions where adult like behavior is expected. It takes practice, patience and good judgment on the part of the parent to know what their child is ready for. It also takes planning, having a diversion for the child, something to occupy their time waiting for a meal etc. Many parents seem to have this mentality that they should be able to take their children anywhere, anytime regardless of whether or not those children are ready for the experience whether it be the grocery store, a movie, church or a restaurant. There also seems to be this trend that its ok for a parent to allow their children to misbehave and we as a society need to learn to be more tolerant like its the adults fault that we are fed up with unruly children.

Parenting is hard work, it takes lots of energy and is not for the faint of heart. I personally think that many young parents these days were raised with a world that revolved around them and they have not figured out how to make their kids a priority and realize that teaching, guiding and disciplining are more important than their own wants at the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mezzodiva54 View Post
Well, *I* find it disgusting that society in general is expected to put up with every idiot parent who thinks that little Johnnie or Janey's every childhood instinct must be tolerated at the expense of everyone else in the universe's sanity. Children may be at whatever developmental age, but they understand and learn what they are taught. If they are taught nothing, then nothing is what you get back, in spades. Plus the bonus that they will grow up to be self-absorbed, selfish, thoughtless jerks. If you teach your children manners, then (ooh -- magic!) they will have manners. If you have expectations of them and tell them you have expectations, then they will attempt to meet them or know that they will face the consequences. Good for the lady in the mini-van with the 4 kids. I was raised like that, and I in turn raised my son like that. I promise he grew up to be a fine, normal young man with nary a stunted development in sight. Meanwhile, if I catch your kids raising hell in the supermarket, you can damn well bet I'll be the ogre who thunders "WHERE'S YOUR MOTHER?" at them. Step on anyone's toes? Oh, my bad. Not.
 
Old 10-11-2014, 05:12 PM
 
12,930 posts, read 19,818,561 times
Reputation: 33981
Quote:
Originally Posted by pegotty View Post
There are a couple ways to deal with this. My 6 y/o (who is a handful) can be disruptive in a synagogue service. I think this is handled different ways in different cultures. My husband's family is Christian. I'm Jewish. His family handled these things by taking the children out and spanking them when they are not quiet. I handle it by taking my child out talking with him about how his actions impact others. For example, if you make a lot of noise not only does it make it difficult for others to hear the speaker, it can also be distracting for the speaker who might lose his place and forget what he was talking about. I help him imagine what it might be like to be giving a speech and having people in the audience making noise so you feel like you have to talk louder. I take the emphasis OFF of him (I'm going to get in trouble) and on to others (how does my behavior impact others).

Also, I limit the amount of time I expect him to sit still to what I believe is manageable for him and I use his cues to tell me when it's time to leave the sanctuary. When he starts getting wiggly I tell him we'll leave in just a few minutes. And then we do. Also, I make sure that it's clear that the reason he has to go to the service is because it allows me to enjoy the teaching NOT because I enjoy torturing him by making him sit still. :-) Also, he learns that when he's older, he'll understand more of what's going on and will probably enjoy the service as well.

This is why it's important for people to be tolerant of children...and maybe even kind to them? Is that too much to ask? Kids need opportunities to learn acceptable behavior. It's not always perfect right off the bat. But they're kids! And believe it or not, there are a lot of things they do much better than adults, such as unconditional love and acceptance, if you take the time to notice it.
I agree with most of this. But, I was raised in a Christian household, and there was no spanking. We weren't asked to sit still for an hour before we were developmentally ready to do so. I see no point in taking kids to religious services before they understand the message.

Quote:
Originally Posted by worriedman View Post
yes it's a geographical thing. kids are raised differently based on location.




then you must not know what's going on under your nose. there are books, magazines, research papers, TV shows, cases studies, articles, heck every type of media you can think of has something about child misbehavior, of which a good chunk is dedicated on how to react to children misbehaving in public.

I find it very hard to believe that you have been on this planet for 50+ years and only seen children misbehave "only occasionally", especially if you have kids of your own. That doesn't make sense at all, and certainly doesn't add up. Even if you lived in a foreign country. kids act up all over the world (obviously).
I've lived in several states, and raised three boys. I don't know what pocket of the world these misbehaving kids inhabit. A sick child, or an exhausted one, sure, I've seen them. They get my sympathy. Kids are naturally loud, antsy and exuberant. If I want quiet, it's easy enough to avoid them. Why go to family restaurants and expect them to be free of kids?

Give me kids over cantankerous adults any day.
 
Old 10-11-2014, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
13,205 posts, read 7,423,414 times
Reputation: 27318
Quote:
Originally Posted by peep531 View Post
My tolerance is very low for children who sample food with their fingers in buffet style restaurants.
I had this experience just today. My gf and I were at Whole Foods and we were looking at the baked goods. Although many of them looked good, I wasn't too thrilled at the fact that none of them (and many of the foods there) were wrapped up or put in under a glass case; they were out on an open shelf for people to pick and choose. A moment later, something I saw proved my reservations were well founded. A couple's small child walked over, touching several of the loaves of bread and muffins with his hands, putting his hands in his mouth, then touching other loaves of bread again. His parents made no move to correct him. Instead they just joked to the bakery employee, "Do you want a free worker?" Then they grinned. Ick. However, people of any age can be ill behaved. At least kids have the excuse of not being grown up yet
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