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Our school leaves the final decision up to the parents. If you think it's best to keep your child home. Then do so. The absence will be excused. They also have a rule regarding the lowest temp that the kids will be able to go outside for recess. If it's too cold, they still get a recess, but it is indoors.
That doesn't seem so far out from the norm that schools can't provide comfortably warm classrooms.
I could see closing/delaying schools if the city bus system has been impacted. I understand the schools use that for transportation too.
Windchill and frostbite are of course a concern while children wait for the bus. This can be prevented by parents driving the kid to school, or going with the kid to the bus stop-and making sure they are adequately dressed. The parents can be minorly inconvenienced by doing this, or majorly inconvenienced by having to spend the entire day at home due to school closure.
Closing schools for temps that aren't that far out of the norm surprises me. I recall my school closing due to weather once. It was -65f out, not including windchill. The school couldn't heat the boiler enough to warm the rooms adequately for comfort. The governor had declared the entire area a disaster area.
You are over simplifying. It isn't about parental inconvenience. It is about the ability to get the kids to school safely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053
You have no idea about the amount of poverty in Chicago. Also, many families living in the city of Chicago do NOT have cars. The physical plants of the Chicago schools are also a disgrace. I taught in a high school where the roof leaked whenever it rained because they were not fixing it at this particular school. It was a school they really wanted to close.
Yes, of course, the parents can't just drop them off whenever and where ever they need to.
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Originally Posted by ncole1
No, unless there is inadequate building heating. Run extra buses for kids that would otherwise walk to school or stand outside for more than 10 minutes, if need be, don't close school! If the schools closed for 0 F, how would Northerners ever get through the winter without falling behind academically?
It also can't be that tough to talk to parents about how to dress kids for those conditions...
That would be chaotic, if not impossible. Even if they had buses to spare, and drivers to drive them, and they started, how would people even know when and where to wait for them? If your kid rides the bus, it is a habit, but you can't just make up new bus routes on the fly for kids who don't normally ride, and expect them to know where to go or what to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keim
Still not seeing why more busses would be required in cold weather...
I certainly agree that if the bus system isn't working, those kids on busses should be excused.
They would miss a day of school when everyone else was there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keim
Why not? I recall tent camping with my Scout troop when the high (and the low) for the day was -20. I think I was twelve.
Why cant the parents wait with them at the bus stop? In a heated car if need be...
BECAUSE THEY DON'T ALL HAVE CARS OR THE FLEXIBILITY TO GET THEM TO AND FROM THE BUS STOP AND STAY WITH THEM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keim
Aren't working parents more inconvenienced by having to take the entire day off to be home with the kid than being a few minutes late due to waiting at the bus stop?
Not if the kids are about 11-12 or older. They can stay home alone. And, again, it is about safety, not inconvenience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keim
Actually, I do. I volunteer at the local homeless shelter. Are you saying poor people dont have a car? Most here do... Or that poor people cant get the time off to wait with their kid at the bus stop? Arent they more inconvenienced by having to take the entire day when the school closes?
Why should schools be closed for the minority that have an issue? They could just as easily be excused.
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Being excused isn't the issue. Missing a day of school because you're poor is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keim
No, I was showing the ability of people to stay out in the cold for prolonged periods without any special equipment.
How long is the walk to school for the unbussed kids? My kids arent bussed. They walk about 25 minutes, one way. They tell me they are walking further than any of their friends. If im concerned about the weather I either make sure they dress well, or give them a ride. Life goes on regardless of somewhat cold temperatures.
Schools dont have a heated area indoors? Most schools around here have heated cafeterias, many also have gyms on top of that. Not to mention halls. Are schools elsewhere lacking cafeterias and halls?
They would need people to staff these areas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick
And this is what happened in Chicago this week when a child spent 30 minutes outdoors = frostbite.
You can continue to try and justify how much tougher you obviously were as a child and how stupid closing schools is, yadda yadda, but the weather here this week has been no joke. In fact I really fail to understand the point you are attempting to make at all.
I'm pretty sure her point is that her kids shouldn't have to miss a day of school because of the poor kids who don't own cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natsku
I'm a bit confused about problem with buses in cold weather. Don't you plug in your cars in the winter (those in areas that get cold winters)? We have sockets in our car park (and so I would assume its the same at bus depots) to plug in heater cables for half an hour or so before its time to start the car. We have a diesel van and have no trouble starting it in extremely cold temps.
We have freezing temps here, and snow, and occasional school closures, and having engine heaters is not the norm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keim
So everyone should be held back for the sake of the few that would legitimately need to miss class on a cold day? Do you also advocate closing the school for the flu?
Getting behind by a day or two usually isn't much of an issue for kids. I've pulled my kids from school for a week. Their grades were unaffected.
Yes, if the outbreak is bad enough. We've had schools close due to staff and student illness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lubina
When this is the case and the buildings cannot accommodate students, yes. It's strange that people don't comprehend that policies and decisions for a small school district can't apply to a district with over 100 schools (that's just the public ones) in urban or heavily populated suburban schools district where kids easily travel an hour each way just to get to school especially if they are located in an area where winter temperatures vary, some years never dipping below 40 and never seeing snow or other years bone-chilling cold temps.
Yes, there are many factors. The size of the district, the socioeconomic make-up, the distance to schools, whether it is rural or urban, the wind chill, the road conditions, the ability of the city, county, or school district to deal with the conditions...
Our school leaves the final decision up to the parents. If you think it's best to keep your child home. Then do so. The absence will be excused. They also have a rule regarding the lowest temp that the kids will be able to go outside for recess. If it's too cold, they still get a recess, but it is indoors.
You are over simplifying. It isn't about parental inconvenience. It is about the ability to get the kids to school safely. Assuming cold only-not icy roads and unsafe driving conditions for busses-why does the school need to make that judgment? My own school and the example provided by jwevergreen show there is another way.
Yes, of course, the parents can't just drop them off whenever and where ever they need to.
That would be chaotic, if not impossible. Even if they had buses to spare, and drivers to drive them, and they started, how would people even know when and where to wait for them? If your kid rides the bus, it is a habit, but you can't just make up new bus routes on the fly for kids who don't normally ride, and expect them to know where to go or what to do.
They would miss a day of school when everyone else was there. So what if they miss a day or two? Should the whole class be held up? I teach in college-and my students have no problem catching up. I pull my young kids out of school-again, no problem catching up.
BECAUSE THEY DON'T ALL HAVE CARS OR THE FLEXIBILITY TO GET THEM TO AND FROM THE BUS STOP AND STAY WITH THEM Again, why does the school need to make this judgment call? And, how is getting kids to school or the bus stop requiring LESS flex than taking the day off because the kids are home? And, if they are staying home alone, how is that more safe than being in school?
Not if the kids are about 11-12 or older. They can stay home alone. And, again, it is about safety, not inconvenience. Safety? Its safer to leave kids home, potentially alone, in freezing temperatures than to get them to school? A place where they will be in warm temperatures, supervised, and receiving nutritious meals. Home alone is safer? Especially for the poor?
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Being excused isn't the issue. Missing a day of school because you're poor is. What does economic status have to do with the importance of missing school? I want ALL the kids to have the chance to go to school. I think school is MORE important for the disadvantaged. People that value education will find a way to get the kid to school if they think it is safe.
They would need people to staff these areas. Schools I've seen in cold weather don't need to hire any extra staff. They just get slightly creative with what they have. Not hard to make work.
I'm pretty sure her point is that her kids shouldn't have to miss a day of school because of the poor kids who don't own cars. That's not my point-If you refer to me. I don't think any kids should have to miss school due to 0. I also think school is the SAFEST place for kids to be if the weather is poor and their parents have to work. I think schools should let the parents make that choice.
We have freezing temps here, and snow, and occasional school closures, and having engine heaters is not the norm. No, those are for places that get really cold. 0 or colder. Consistently. Not necessary above that.
Yes, if the outbreak is bad enough. We've had schools close due to staff and student illness. And that makes sense. It is a communicable disease-and was a poor off the cuff comparison by me initially.
Yes, there are many factors. The size of the district, the socioeconomic make-up, the distance to schools, whether it is rural or urban, the wind chill, the road conditions, the ability of the city, county, or school district to deal with the conditions... Agreed. That's why I asked the initial poll question. Someone was claiming all schools should close at 0 or below.
Your posts reek of elitism. Other than that, I don't see your point. No one here has said yes, all schools should close in 0°F. Everyone has given variables, and examples of why they might. Yet you continue to argue. Your point seems to be that schools shouldn't close ever. Screw the teachers and staff. Screw the poor kids without cars. As long as your kids can get to school, you're good. Fortunately, most districts care about all kids, and take into account the ability to get them to school safely.
Your posts reek of elitism. Other than that, I don't see your point. No one here has said yes, all schools should close in 0°F. Everyone has given variables, and examples of why they might. Yet you continue to argue. Your point seems to be that schools shouldn't close ever. Screw the teachers and staff. Screw the poor kids without cars. As long as your kids can get to school, you're good. Fortunately, most districts care about all kids, and take into account the ability to get them to school safely.
Valuing education for all, wanting kids to have a safe place, and parents to be able to choose for themselves if they feel conditions are unsafe is elite? Wow... Didnt see that claim coming.
Actually 25% have made that claim. Others have specifically claimed Chicago schools should, since it is 25f below the norm.
Please show me where I have said anything about windchill not contributing to how it feels outside.
What was this whole exchange about then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keim
I heard last night that some Chicago area schools were going to either open late or close entirely due to cold temperatures. The temp was expected to be about -3F.
This started a discussion on whether schools should close for this type of temperature. What do you think?
Edit To Add: I am assuming it is an otherwise nice day. No blizzard, whiteout or otherwise unsafe driving conditions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick
By the way your facts were very off. The forecast was for -30F with the windchill, not -3, and most schools remained open.
Valuing education for all, wanting kids to have a safe place, and parents to be able to choose for themselves if they feel conditions are unsafe is elite? Wow... Didnt see that claim coming.
Actually 25% have made that claim. Others have specifically claimed Chicago schools should, since it is 25f below the norm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keim
That doesn't seem so far out from the norm that schools can't provide comfortably warm classrooms.
I could see closing/delaying schools if the city bus system has been impacted. I understand the schools use that for transportation too.
Windchill and frostbite are of course a concern while children wait for the bus. This can be prevented by parents driving the kid to school, or going with the kid to the bus stop-and making sure they are adequately dressed. The parents can be minorly inconvenienced by doing this, or majorly inconvenienced by having to spend the entire day at home due to school closure.
Closing schools for temps that aren't that far out of the norm surprises me. I recall my school closing due to weather once. It was -65f out, not including windchill. The school couldn't heat the boiler enough to warm the rooms adequately for comfort. The governor had declared the entire area a disaster area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keim
Why not? I recall tent camping with my Scout troop when the high (and the low) for the day was -20. I think I was twelve.
Why cant the parents wait with them at the bus stop? In a heated car if need be...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keim
Actually, I do. I volunteer at the local homeless shelter. Are you saying poor people dont have a car? Most here do... Or that poor people cant get the time off to wait with their kid at the bus stop? Arent they more inconvenienced by having to take the entire day when the school closes?
Why should schools be closed for the minority that have an issue? They could just as easily be excused.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keim
Public transit would be nice. Don't have much of it here.
Regardless...
School should be cancelled for this small minority why? They could as easily be excused, while the school remains open.
Some elitism, and some just plain cluelessness. "Let them eat cake!"
OP, you seem to be arguing an all or nothing point. As has been pointed out, there are many variables. Should schools always, no matter what close at 0? No. Should some schools close at 0, depending on other factors? yes.
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