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Old 01-30-2008, 04:44 AM
 
Location: UK
2,579 posts, read 2,133,776 times
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I posted this thread on the Health and Wellness forum but I wonder if I can find a few more experiences and opinions on this one. I thank you in advance for your contribution.


I wonder if anybody has an opinion on the MMR vaccination and its risks.
In a few months my husband and I will be facing yet again the (for me) agonizing decision of whether or not vaccinate our little boy with MMR. We went through it with our other children and for many years I delayed such vaccination and my second child was only given the jab when he was 5.
I don't know if here in Spain, where we are currently living, I would even be allowed to delay such vaccination or whether there are options for the separate vaccines, I will find out.
But in the meantime I would value people opinions and experiences.
Thank you
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Old 01-30-2008, 09:23 AM
 
Location: St. Louis Metro East
515 posts, read 1,362,990 times
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Thumbs down I have an opinion that a lot of people don't appreciate...

I am the mother of a son with Autism. I believe that the mercury preservative used in many vaccines, and the MMR seems to be the worst offerder, IMO. So much so that I opted not to have our youngest son vaccinated. He is now 6, and is perfectly healthy. We don't keep him in an antiseptic bubble, he goes to public school, and lives a normal life. Because of some of the behaviors he exhibits from time to time, I am glad that we made the decision we did.

While I adore our autistic son and love him with all my heart, I feel pretty blessed that we were able to perhaps prevent the same fate in our youngest son. I come from a long line of nursing professionals who think I'm insane for thinking that vaccines could possibly do any damage, let alone contribute to something as devastating as autism.

Jenny McCarthy has a moving book about her journey through autism with her son. It's worth a read... she cites professionals and others who support this same belief.

Not sure if that's what you were looking for, but that's my experience and opinion. Good luck!

~Danielle
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Old 01-30-2008, 12:16 PM
 
Location: UK
2,579 posts, read 2,133,776 times
Reputation: 1688
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtjmom View Post
I am the mother of a son with Autism. I believe that the mercury preservative used in many vaccines, and the MMR seems to be the worst offerder, IMO. So much so that I opted not to have our youngest son vaccinated. He is now 6, and is perfectly healthy. We don't keep him in an antiseptic bubble, he goes to public school, and lives a normal life. Because of some of the behaviors he exhibits from time to time, I am glad that we made the decision we did.

While I adore our autistic son and love him with all my heart, I feel pretty blessed that we were able to perhaps prevent the same fate in our youngest son. I come from a long line of nursing professionals who think I'm insane for thinking that vaccines could possibly do any damage, let alone contribute to something as devastating as autism.

Jenny McCarthy has a moving book about her journey through autism with her son. It's worth a read... she cites professionals and others who support this same belief.

Not sure if that's what you were looking for, but that's my experience and opinion. Good luck!

~Danielle
Thank you jtjmom for your honest opinion, I really appreciate it. Do you feel that your son developed autism as a consequence of the MMR vaccine? Or do you think there were already some signs before him being vaccinated?
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Old 01-30-2008, 12:54 PM
 
Location: San Antonio-Westover Hills
6,878 posts, read 17,817,169 times
Reputation: 5139
Quote:
Originally Posted by hutch5 View Post
I posted this thread on the Health and Wellness forum but I wonder if I can find a few more experiences and opinions on this one. I thank you in advance for your contribution.


I wonder if anybody has an opinion on the MMR vaccination and its risks.
In a few months my husband and I will be facing yet again the (for me) agonizing decision of whether or not vaccinate our little boy with MMR. We went through it with our other children and for many years I delayed such vaccination and my second child was only given the jab when he was 5.
I don't know if here in Spain, where we are currently living, I would even be allowed to delay such vaccination or whether there are options for the separate vaccines, I will find out.
But in the meantime I would value people opinions and experiences.
Thank you


Quote:
Originally Posted by jtjmom View Post
I am the mother of a son with Autism. I believe that the mercury preservative used in many vaccines, and the MMR seems to be the worst offerder, IMO. So much so that I opted not to have our youngest son vaccinated. He is now 6, and is perfectly healthy. We don't keep him in an antiseptic bubble, he goes to public school, and lives a normal life. Because of some of the behaviors he exhibits from time to time, I am glad that we made the decision we did.

While I adore our autistic son and love him with all my heart, I feel pretty blessed that we were able to perhaps prevent the same fate in our youngest son. I come from a long line of nursing professionals who think I'm insane for thinking that vaccines could possibly do any damage, let alone contribute to something as devastating as autism.

Jenny McCarthy has a moving book about her journey through autism with her son. It's worth a read... she cites professionals and others who support this same belief.

Not sure if that's what you were looking for, but that's my experience and opinion. Good luck!

~Danielle

Opinions like this trouble me. While I completely sympathize with the frustration in wanting to find a single answer for this very complex puzzle, I'm afraid the MMR isn't it. There has been no mercury in the MMR since 1999.

As far as Jenny McCarthy goes, she is a mom, and she cares about her son, and I respect her as far as that goes. But she is no doctor, certainly no research doctor, and I'm more inclined to believe peer-reviewed studies done by experts in the field than one mother's "intuition". I think it is irresponsible for her, though certainly profitable, to use that so-called "intuition" to make anyone believe anything she has to say as fact.

My 2 1/2 year old daughter was diagnosed with moderate autism in September of last year. We saw issues with her as far back as 6 months. No one can tell me it was the MMR or any other single vaccine, as we cross-referenced our doctor's vax list with the current one displayed on the Institute for Vaccine Safety's website. She had NONE of the listed meds other than the flu vaccine, and that was when she was 2. Again, she was displaying symptoms long before that. If you ask most parents of kids with autism, they can tell you of some symptoms that occurred before the "dreaded" MMR.

Now what I believe, based on peer-reviewed studies out of reputable journals, combined with my husband's expertise (he is a geneticist) is that most likely, it is a gene mutation that occurs in either or both parents and that mutation is likely to have been the responsibility of something environmental as we were forming ourselves. Smoking, drinking, exposure to chemicals, additives, et al during the late 60s and early 70s were more common than they are today. This combined with environmental factors of today (parents being over 30 and having children, assistance in fertilization, conception etc) is probably a good basis for what we are seeing. It doesn't make it any less scary, because it most definitely is, but putting the blame on one single thing simply makes NO sense when there just isn't anything out there to substantiate it other than a parents' "gut feeling". How many times do we have gut feelings that turn out to be totally wrong? More than we're right, and I'm willing to put money on it.


Quackwatch--Thimerosal in Vaccines
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Old 01-30-2008, 02:06 PM
 
Location: UK
2,579 posts, read 2,133,776 times
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Thank you Mom2feebs, I appreciate your point of view and I will certainly read through the links you are giving.

The only think I would like to point out, if I may, is that many children have been saved by their mothers' "gut feeling",and I am referring here particularly to meningitis. How many times do we hear of children being sent home by the doctors with tablets for the flu and their life being saved by their mother who were brave enough to go against the doctor reccomendation taking them back to ER.
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Old 01-30-2008, 03:51 PM
 
Location: St. Louis Metro East
515 posts, read 1,362,990 times
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Arrow Further clarification

A bit of clarification for Mom2feebs, my son was born in 1994.

I do not believe that the vaccines are the sole cause of autism. I think, as Ms. McCarthy points out, that some kids are predisposed to certain things. We are now vaccinating against many more diseases than we were just a few years ago. Who is to say that if a child's system is a bit, shall we say, delicate, to begin with, that a sensitivity to something in the vaccines (thimerasol or not) could act as a catalyst to devastating developmental changes? I absolutely believe that there could be a genetic factor. There is severe ADHD and ADD in my family. Sure there could be a link, I'd be a fool to discount that possibility -- even probability. My youngest, who I have said before was not immunized, has been diagnosed as hyperactive. We are overloading their little systems with so many things that it's very possible that some kids simply can't tolerate all the "good" things we're pumping into them. I think it's interesting, however, that it's common for an autistic child to develop normally for the first 6-18 months, only to regress and eventually receive a diagnosis on the autistic spectrum. This is the same time in a child's life when they are receiving the bulk of their immunizations, is it not?

There are also studies that show a possible link between autism and heavy metal toxicity... and that in some cases a heavy metal detoxification regimen has had a tremendous effect. Some children have a severe sensitivity to wheat gluten (Celiac Sprue) and casein from dairy. The inability to properly digest and absorb these components can cause problems, and the elimination of all wheat and dairy from the diet has also helped some children dramatically.

The point is that while I believe vaccines may be a large part of the problem, I think they're a part of a larger puzzle. In my opinion, until the autism puzzle is solved, be it through genetic therapy or even just finding a way to detect which children are vulnerable at birth, I'll hold my stance that vaccines are an "enter at your own risk" proposition.

Just my two cents... Thanks for your valuable input! I hope you can respect my point of view.

Hutch, I couldn't agree more with the mother's intuition... it saved my daughter's life.

When she was 3, she became violently ill. We took her to our pediatrician, who gave her antibiotics (don't even get me started on the overuse of antibiotics... lol) and sent her home. She continued to get worse, so we took her back in, this time to the ER. They said it was probably the flu and sent her home. The next night, we took her to a different ER. By this time, she was very dehydrated. After further evaluation, we learned that this whole time, she had been passing blood in her stools (watery diarrhea), we just couldn't see it. By this time, she had been on antibiotics for several days. It was discovered that they had actually killed off the good bacteria in her digestive tract, thus making everything worse! She ended up in a children's hospital for testing. She was unable to eat, as every time she did, it caused another round of horrible stomach pain, screaming, and ultimately... you guessed it... (it had to come out... ) She spent two full weeks in the hospital, in isolation because they didn't know what was wrong, unable to eat or drink. Only IV fluids. They finally, on about day 12, a test showed that she actually had a very common virus that caused most people no issue. She just had a very, very bad reaction to it! Once we got her off the antibiotics, she began to slowly improve. She's 15 now, and every time she gets a stomachache, I still get worried!

Bottom line... follow your gut!

~Danielle
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Old 01-30-2008, 05:09 PM
 
Location: San Antonio-Westover Hills
6,878 posts, read 17,817,169 times
Reputation: 5139
Meningitis presents with entirely different symptoms. There is no doubt "Mother's Intuition" works in many cases, but I'm not relying on it for my child's reasons for having autism, sorry.

I don't dispute that there are some children whose immune systems might not be able to handle certain immunizations. That's a BIG "might", though, and I certainly do not feel comfortable laying the blame on it entirely. Studies, real studies, show that almost all children can handle twice the amount of immunizations that they receive, so it's hard to discern how many "can't", who those kids might be, and how to figure it out even if we could.

There are no reputable studies whatsoever that link autism to heavy metal toxicity. There are lots of opinions on the subject, and certainly there are labs out there who have tried to make a legitimate connection. Some of what you are reading are not peer-reviewed journal publications, or some just unfortunately do not produce enough data to prove anything (for instance, one study was done with 15 kids with autism, and 4 NT kids. High levels of mercury were in several of the autistic kids, until fish was removed from their diets for a period of one month. They were re-tested and all levels were normal). Some studies have even been recanted (like the big one in England that started the whole "mercury" issue). I realize it is very frustrating since there is so much information out there and we all can only digest what we can at once, right? I get that. What I don't get is why people consistently point the finger at things that have already had studies done on them and have been discounted over and over? Why are people not looking at other things? The focus has become the anti-vax against the pro-vax and to be perfectly frank, vaccines shouldn't be the focus at all. If they're a small part that's one thing, but we're wasting our time and money by doing the same studies over and over and over.

Again, no one can tell me it was thimerosal that caused my child's autism. No one can tell me WHAT it was, that's the problem. Until we all agree it might be something else, we'll just continue to run around in circles, because God knows it's easier on the mind to jump on the Jenny McCarthy bandwagon, and blame Big Pharma for all our problems, than to actually believe it is something in US, or something our parents did. Accountability seems to be a big issue with this disorder. Meanwhile, my daughter needs therapy and services. I have to concentrate on those things and hope to God that people out there like my husband can figure out what has happened, without any ulterior motives.

Thanks for listening, I hope I haven't offended too much. Just a different POV, I guess.
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Old 01-30-2008, 08:24 PM
 
Location: St. Louis Metro East
515 posts, read 1,362,990 times
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My, oh my... Well, there you go! Two TOTALLY DIFFERENT opinions... I hope we've given you enough information to help you decide for yourself.

To Mom2feebs, I feel for you. Your daughter is much younger than my son, I believe. There are wonderful resources for her. I hope you can hook up with some good organizations. Perhaps with all the new therapies and research that we didn't have the advantage of will offer your daughter and your family some relief.

God bless!

~Danielle
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Old 01-30-2008, 09:44 PM
 
6,585 posts, read 22,387,341 times
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My son's pedi delayed vaccines as a matter of course. The shots were caught back up at age 5 before entering public school. If I had more kids now I would probably delay again. At the time (mid 1990s) I didn't know why the pedi delayed shots. He just did. I didn't know any different.
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Old 01-31-2008, 04:18 AM
 
20,793 posts, read 52,384,150 times
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Perhaps you might want to do some research on the effects these diseases, measles, mumps, rubella have on kids. Look at some pictures on the internet of kids that have suffered through these diseases and are now blind, deaf, deformed in some way. Research is a good thing if you look at it from all sides. Getting one sided information that has never been proven can cause disastrous results. Look up "iron-lung" and see what polio did to people. Ask some of your neighbors about their lingering effects of having polio as a child.
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