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Old 12-13-2015, 10:59 PM
 
Location: New York Area
34,755 posts, read 16,775,621 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderlove View Post
Have any of you given up custody willingly? Did you end up living in regret over this or was it a positive in the end? Experiences? Advice?
In 1957 my late father's sister gave birth to a baby biologically fathered by the family doctor, 12 years before her bitter divorce from her husband of about 30 years. That daughter's behavior quickly became similarly erratic. About six months later her ex-husband (remember not the father) got custody. Things did go better, but only by degrees.

There are no good choices, other than initially maintaining an intact, two-parent family. Which unfortunately is not always possible. But people need to think about the results of divorce.
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Old 12-13-2015, 11:21 PM
 
13,389 posts, read 6,412,740 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
In 1957 my late father's sister gave birth to a baby biologically fathered by the family doctor, 12 years before her bitter divorce from her husband of about 30 years. That daughter's behavior quickly became similarly erratic. About six months later her ex-husband (remember not the father) got custody. Things did go better, but only by degrees.

There are no good choices, other than initially maintaining an intact, two-parent family. Which unfortunately is not always possible. But people need to think about the results of divorce.

How is this helpful to someone who is already divorced whatever the reason?


Not to mention you are describing a situation where someone cheated and its not clear whether or not the true paternity of the child was ever disclosed.


Intact families even when the marriage is good do not entirely guarantee there is no parent/child conflict.


Children imo do not benefit from living in a marriage that is kept together soley for the children where there is no real marital relationship involving love/respect. What are you modeling for them and their future relationships?


Unfortunately in the real world, marriages do not always work despite the best efforts of both parties. Sometimes its one party and the other has little to no control of the results. Doesn't mean they cant work together to provide good parenting to their children. Even if someone was a horrible spouse, they can still be a good parent.
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Old 12-14-2015, 01:33 AM
 
Location: Finland
6,418 posts, read 7,228,247 times
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Sometimes giving up custody is the right thing to do for the sake of the child and it sounds like it is in this case OP. It must have been a very difficult decision to make, try to ignore the people criticising you as they haven't walked in your shoes. I hope that your daughter does better with her dad and then hopefully she'll be able to have better relationships with you all.

I know from my own experience that my parents had to kick one of my brothers out at 16 after trying everything they could but at that point he was violent and it wasn't safe to keep him in the home. It was a hard decision for them to make but distance improved the relationship between him and them - we took him on holiday with us etc. and now he's an adult he has a great relationship with all of us.
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Old 12-14-2015, 05:37 AM
 
Location: Posting from my space yacht.
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You switched custody to the father, you didn't send the kid in to foster care or something. I fail to see the big controversy in that regard. Your family is off the mark for saying you're giving up on her. Spending more time with him may be just what she needs. His parenting style might just mesh better with her than yours does. Just try to make sure you stay involved with her yourself. The teen years may be the years where they act as if they want nothing to do with you but they are also the years a kid needs both of her parents the most.
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Old 12-14-2015, 06:29 AM
 
2,813 posts, read 2,106,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bully View Post
You switched custody to the father, you didn't send the kid in to foster care or something. I fail to see the big controversy in that regard. Your family is off the mark for saying you're giving up on her. Spending more time with him may be just what she needs. His parenting style might just mesh better with her than yours does. Just try to make sure you stay involved with her yourself. The teen years may be the years where they act as if they want nothing to do with you but they are also the years a kid needs both of her parents the most.
Reiterating the bolded: OP, please stay as involved in her life as you able--attending conferences, any school events, extracurriculars, inviting her friends to join your family for dinner, etc, etc. Don't make her to feel "abandoned" or "given up on." Let her see how this is a fresh start for your relationship.
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Old 12-14-2015, 07:30 AM
 
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I have seen this happen several times over the course of my life. A couple of times, it was just bratty kids, hoping that by moving in with Dad, they could get to do what they want.

Since they saw dad on weekends, it was more like a holiday than day to day living. Once they moved in with Dad, they realized that he was not the pushover they thought he was. In once case, the kid lasted less than a month before he was begging to go back to mom. In the other , he stayed but moaned and groaned and was the same pain he was at his Mom's for a year before he learned to toe the line Dad had set.

In the other two cases, the kids did do better with Dad. Just a better mesh of parenting styles and households.

OP- don't worry about what anyone says. It's your kids and your life. You have to find what works best for both your and the children.

.
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Old 12-14-2015, 07:54 AM
 
10,196 posts, read 9,851,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFlyingBird View Post
No
Sorry about that, started to type, got side tracked and some how submitted it.

What I was saying....

No I haven't, but we took in a teenage family member who has having troubles at home. There was a brief honeymoon period before she went back to her old behaviors. They were never as severe as they were with her parents...but I think that was about a dynamic that was long in the making...plus she wasn't ever as comfortable with us to let it all out like she was with her parents.

We really thought we could help her...in a way we did. She was headed towards dropping out of school, etc. And she did graduate, managed not to get pregnant or hooked on drugs. So.

Sorry, a little humor. It's exhausting. It was so hard, I felt like I was going to have a mental breakdown at times dealing with her. She was one of the most unpleasant people I have ever had to be around. Thank god I was already in therapy when she came or I would have lost it.

Anyways...I'm sorry you are going through this. With your daughters behavior it's best she isn't around young kids anyways. Does her dad have any? He needs to be warned. Everything you described sounds like emerging borderline personality disorder. If there is a dbt therapist in the area , or groups...that might be a good place to look for help.

Best of luck.
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Old 12-14-2015, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
19,480 posts, read 25,060,649 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bully View Post
You switched custody to the father, you didn't send the kid in to foster care or something. I fail to see the big controversy in that regard.
Your family is off the mark for saying you're giving up on her. Spending more time with him may be just what she needs. His parenting style might just mesh better with her than yours does. Just try to make sure you stay involved with her yourself. The teen years may be the years where they act as if they want nothing to do with you but they are also the years a kid needs both of her parents the most.

That is the main point. She used to be with her mother, now she is with her father. I really do not see the big deal about this.


Reverse the situation. What if she had been with her father for years and then it was agreed that she would now live with you. Would that have been more fair to her? More fair to you? Why should it matter to other relatives.


BTW, I know several families where the teenagers lived with their father after a divorce and the mother had the teen for weekends.


I also know a family where the father raised his child from age five. This was fifty years ago, and while it was a little unusual, no one was bothered by it, as he was the better parent.
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Old 12-14-2015, 09:08 AM
 
13,754 posts, read 13,260,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondy View Post
How is this helpful to someone who is already divorced whatever the reason?


Not to mention you are describing a situation where someone cheated and its not clear whether or not the true paternity of the child was ever disclosed.


Intact families even when the marriage is good do not entirely guarantee there is no parent/child conflict.


Children imo do not benefit from living in a marriage that is kept together soley for the children where there is no real marital relationship involving love/respect. What are you modeling for them and their future relationships?


Unfortunately in the real world, marriages do not always work despite the best efforts of both parties. Sometimes its one party and the other has little to no control of the results. Doesn't mean they cant work together to provide good parenting to their children. Even if someone was a horrible spouse, they can still be a good parent.
Wow Blondy, they were answering the question with an example of their own. I saw the relevance.

OP, I'm already unnerved with the similarities of my experience with my dear other's girlzilla. That 8 month stint introduced me to PTSD that 29yrs in the military never taught me. I don't know if you've done much research into BPD or NPD but you'll probably find answers in that arena. If you know all about it then you haven't found her the right counselor. She will go along until it becomes uncomfortable and she has to face the reality that SHE is the problem. That their behavior is their own choice, it's not acceptable and sometimes we all have to do things we would rather not do. (go to school that's hard work) Our girlzilla is now a 19yr old hs dropout who works at Subway. She lives at her mother's in a basement room about 8x8, has a boyfriend who loves her and wants to marry her and shares her self-destructive personality. But don't judge, we took her to live with us in Hawaii. Not good enough. We took her to a family counselor whom we all saw and, the day she realized she was no longer getting over on us, she chose to move back to New England. Buh-bye. She was 16, sneaking out to night clubs in Honolulu, getting tattoos from a friend that look like jail tattoos. Okay, I need a belt of Scotch. <-- sort of

So she has gotten her way (as long as she gets to come on vacations with you). How long before she starts making demands in other areas? Probably already has. You saved your marriage. She's old enough to choose this horrendous behavior. I suggest you get on the same page as her father because using guilt to manipulate him isn't going to get anyone anywhere.

I hope you'll consider a solid "make it better" family counselor who can give you some good ideas for dealing with this little gem, who, oddly enough, you love enough to give your life for. The BPD sites give great insight into the problems. She's dealing with becoming a woman, too, so hormones are working against her. I encourage anyone to try SAMe (unless you are a small child or pregnant). Caring isn't enough. This behavior destroys.
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Old 12-14-2015, 09:18 AM
 
12,003 posts, read 11,854,088 times
Reputation: 22684
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFlyingBird View Post
Sorry about that, started to type, got side tracked and some how submitted it.

What I was saying....

No I haven't, but we took in a teenage family member who has having troubles at home. There was a brief honeymoon period before she went back to her old behaviors. They were never as severe as they were with her parents...but I think that was about a dynamic that was long in the making...plus she wasn't ever as comfortable with us to let it all out like she was with her parents.

We really thought we could help her...in a way we did. She was headed towards dropping out of school, etc. And she did graduate, managed not to get pregnant or hooked on drugs. So.

Sorry, a little humor. It's exhausting. It was so hard, I felt like I was going to have a mental breakdown at times dealing with her. She was one of the most unpleasant people I have ever had to be around. Thank god I was already in therapy when she came or I would have lost it.

Anyways...I'm sorry you are going through this. With your daughters behavior it's best she isn't around young kids anyways. Does her dad have any? He needs to be warned. Everything you described sounds like emerging borderline personality disorder. If there is a dbt therapist in the area , or groups...that might be a good place to look for help.

Best of luck.

Except for caring for the young relative, this is the post I was considering writing. Your daughter's behavior does indicate that she has many of the characteristics of BPD. There is a book for "nons", those who don't have BPD but who are close to someone with it, called "Stop Walking on Eggshells" which does a pretty good (not perfect) job of describing typical thought patterns of someone with BPD (black and white thinking and perceptions of others and of events, gaslighting, mood swings, self-harm, and more) and just why their thoughts, emotions, and behaviors and reactions seem logical to them (while driving those around them to despair and frustation). It also contains excellent suggestions for responding to and clearly and effectively communicating with someone with BPD, along with how to set realistic boundaries for yourself.

it sounds as if your daughter has learned that acting out and threatening family order are great techniques for getting her own way. Is she in therapy, and are all parental figures in her life in family therapy? While her techniques may work for her for the short term, they are obviously destructive and are going to be ineffectual at best in the long run.

If it is possible to keep her involved in the arts, do so. Often people with BPD are very creative and talented in artistic endeavors, into which they can constructively pour their strong emotions without harming themselves or others. Art, music, drama, and creative writing can be great activities for them, and can also help with the low self-esteem which goes along with BPD.

Often children and teens with symptoms like those of your daughter are considered to have RAD rather than BPD - but RAD, untreated effectively, is said to turn into BPD during the teen years. Adults with BPD often outgrow the more physically adversarial traits and mellow somewhat by their thirties or so, but the warped thinking, projection (attributing their own issues, negative traits and thoughts onto others), black and white perceptions of others (as all-good or all-evil. Not bad, evil), and gaslighting (remembering past events very differently, usually negatively, from all others who shared the experience) remain.

Substance abuse and a chain of broken intense relationships are also common in adults with BPD, who can come off as charming, highly intelligent, witty and talented upon first acquaintance. Unfortunately, that veneer is usually quite thin, and the very damaged hidden self cannot remain hidden long. Acquaintances who thought they were close friends or romantic interests may find themselves abruptly dumped when they seem to be getting too close, which is very threatening for the person with BPD, leaving the caring friend baffled and wondering what they did to cause such treatment from someone who'd seemed to be very loving, affectionate, and appreciative previously...sad for all concerned.

Sadly, I learned these things from personal experience as a "non"...the person with BPD who was in my life was a much-loved younger relative who used to say they wanted to be just like me when they grew up. But I was termed a "tool of Satan" by this relative when I tried to be a go-between to reestablish contact between them and their then critically ill parent several years ago.

Now I have no contact at all with this relative, but do occasionally look online for news. They seem to have "mellowed", but remain estranged from all of their family of origin, cling desperately to their very negative and inaccurate version of their childhood (easily countered by others who shared that same past), continue to portray themself as a victim of life-long abuse from various individuals, including therapists, parents, relatives, teachers, etc., and have a very spotty personal history in terms of work, major substance abuse, romances, etc. But this relative also is a college graduate, a gifted creative writer and poet, has a lot of dramatic talent, and has other gifts. They also look like me (this person is not my child). I wish they didn't, now...

Makes it hard...but for everyone's sake, I keep my distance - boundaries - and simply pray.

Best wishes to you and your family, especially your daughter. I hope she receives intervention and appropriate therapy to help her with her issues, and I hope that you and her father can find ways to deal with her effectively. Do not let uninvolved others criticize your decision for her to live with her father, and do keep in touch with your daughter as much as you can. Ask her school to copy you on all correspondence concerning your daughter, meet with her teachers, principal and school counselor and explain the situation. Clearly, you have made the decision for your daughter to live with her father out of love, not out of abandoning your parental duties. Instead, you are fulfilling those duties by trying to do the best you can for your daughter. I hope she will do well with her father, and I hope you'll share this thread with him and encourage him to learn more about RAD and BPD, too.

Last edited by CraigCreek; 12-14-2015 at 09:49 AM..
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