Why do some children thrive and not others? (BF, teens, divorce)

[UserName14289]

Originally Posted by DewDropInn

This. Nature vs. nurture has been debated for a long, long time.

lol I know. I even remember debating it in college -- we devoted an entire semester to it, actually (I was a Child Psych minor and my father went to college for psychology, so we have these types of "debates" more than is reasonable lol).

I remember clearly debating the side of nurture, but as an adult, I came to see the validity in nature.

But now as a parent (and much older woman), I see it all differently, yet again.

To me, a large part of the secret sauce is adult involvement. Maybe not parental, because sometimes parents are absent, as mine were, but some form of involved and encouraging adult involvement.

I also think a lot has to do with self confidence. While my friends were doing drugs and drinking, I was at the exact same parties but felt zero pressure to partake because I simply didn't want to and didn't care what others thought. To me, *they* were uncool because they felt the need to get high. In college I later experimented (typical for college and a teen that was working through a rough patch of family trouble the first year of college), but nothing anywhere near the degree with which they were doing and for not nearly as long.

I also think being too active to get into too much trouble played a part. I was always busy with way too many sports, dance, and work (my first job was at 14yo) to want to get high because I knew I had practice or work the next day.

I also think part of it was not wanting to get stuck in that town. I knew I was going to college. My high school prom date wanted me to get pregnant our senior year. I broke up with him because I was not about to be raising babies at 17yo with no college degree or job. It just was not happening. Many of the girls I graduated with can't say the same.

In my house it was never "if" you go to college. It was "when" you go to college. I think that plays a big role in having a child see bigger things for themselves than the immediate moment and the party this weekend.

[MoonBeam33]

This has been studied a great deal, and for some people it just comes down to the natural resilience they have. Some kids just have it, and some kids don't. That's why you can see kids in the same family or same neighborhood with virtually identical experiences and one will "succeed" in life where another will "fail." There are all kinds of other mitigating factors, of course - genetics, involved adults, propensity to addiction, mental health and mental illness - but for some people they just have a higher resilience against a bad environment.

[UserName14289]

Originally Posted by MoonBeam33

This has been studied a great deal, and for some people it just comes down to the natural resilience they have. Some kids just have it, and some kids don't. That's why you can see kids in the same family or same neighborhood with virtually identical experiences and one will "succeed" in life where another will "fail." There are all kinds of other mitigating factors, of course - genetics, involved adults, propensity to addiction, mental health and mental illness - but for some people they just have a higher resilience against a bad environment.

I guess that's the part where I struggle. I still believe it's nurture, and not nature.

[BOS2IAD]

I grew up with a mother who was a narcissist and an alcoholic who was verbally and emotionally abusive. My father was the perfect enabler who threw us kids under the bus with the excuse that if we challenged her, she would give him h*ll later. For punishment, we were often beaten with the belt.

I was a painfully shy child who was once thin but that made my mother cry so she started piling food on my plate and forcing me to eat it all so I ended up being a chubby kid. That made her angry and she blamed me for it. Also, I inherited bad teeth and had psoriasis for most of my childhood. Might as well have painted a target on my back, as I was bullied at school. So no safe place for me to fall.

Many people have told me that they are surprised that I never got into drugs or became promiscuous. However, I had something in me that kept me from going down those paths. Looking back, I'm so glad that it happened that way as I can't imagine what my life would have been like. Yet, I've struggled with low self-esteem and little self-confidence.

One of my brothers (my mother's favorite) ended up as a teen, smoking cigarettes and pot, later adding alcohol into the mix. He was a depressive who self-medicated. Yet, he managed to hold a decent job and stick with it. I'm sure that his co-workers were unaware that he self-medicated. Lung cancer got him in his 50s. He left behind his wife and their troubled son who grew into a troubled young adult.

The other brother was allowed to be rude, inconsiderate and irresponsible. He's had some decent jobs in the past but always ends up quitting them. He's oblivious when it comes to saving money and planning for retirement---which is fast looming for him. He had 2 kids with a women who was psycho. When they broke up, he got custody of both of them. Fortunately, he found a good woman who married him and was more of a mother to those kids than their own mother was.

I do believe that it isn't either nature or nurture but some of both. For example, nature can lead a person down the right road or the wrong road. However, if nature has a person going down the right road, I believe that with better nurturing, not only does that person go down the right road but ends up even more successful.

[Caltovegas]

Some people are just born more driven than others.

[gouligann]

First of all, GOOD for you for being raised in a less than perfect environment and for doing so well for yourself! Be proud!

I've always stated that I believe a person is born with their personality. In other words, I believe a person is 5% nurture and 95% nature. This conclusion stems from my own experiences with my own family.(read below)

When I occasionally go to the parental forum, I often see people always blaming the parents for their children's problems. I DON"T AGREE! (most of the time)

People tend to want to blame their environment and upbringing (or lack of) on all their problems.
I call BS on that. You are a fine example. People can raise above and beyond their problems if they want something bad enough (as long as they have a normally formed brain). Someone having mental issues are an exception IMO.

I was raised in a single parent home (my father passed away when I was young). I have three siblings, two of which are twins.
The twins have not been successful in life financially or socially. They don't have any CLOSE friends but each other. They can be quite rude and obnoxious to be around at times so they have lost most friends they had in their youth.
They blame most of their problems on my mother who was very kind and did her best to provide for her children. When they start a conversation pointing a finger at her, I get very angry. I tell them that they had equal opportunities, and not to blame anyone but themselves! They just don't get it.

My other brother and I have done very well both socially and financially. We were all raised in the same house with the same parent. We have close friends and live very well. The twins are jealous of this but we certainly don't throw it into their faces.

It is the same with my two boys. Both were raised in the same house with the same parents and same opportunities.
One does very well for himself. He was a happy and easy child right from birth. He slept well at night, got along with most people, did well in school, and was generally a pleasure to raise. He is successful in his job, happily married and we don't worry about his future.

Our other son was born full of anger, squalling when he was hungry or tired, and howled when simply waking up from a nap. He had horrible temper tantrums as a toddler, anger issues in his adolescent and teenage years, disliked and did poorly in school (blamed the teachers), can't keep a job, is an alcoholic and has hooked up with a woman I do not think will be a decent life-long partner. (that's his business)

[PhotoProIP]

OP: ppl like you benefit from a type of "motivation" to get out of that type of situation which the other people do not have.

If kids grow up in pampered/bubbled/safe environments their motivation is a lot less prevalent! They just follow a herd sort of thing rather than have ambition to do better.

My mom came from being poor to become an amazing personality in her field of work, I however have no motivation to do anything of that sort because A) I'll always be compared to her, and B) things changed for the worst and the opportunities simply aren't there!

I could have thrived too should I had been sent to do something other than what she did, but out of her convenience to "keep an eye on me", I didn't and that killed any motivation I might have had.

[VexedAndSolitary]

I too used to lean towards "nurture" until I got older and had seen so much (anecdotal, but there must be studies to support) and now believe it's MOSTLY nature i.e. innate abilities and to far lesser degree, say 70/30, environment.

I am very unusual in this way: I was reared by a sadistic (truly) Mother in a home with other adults present (Italian family, relatives in a 3 fam house) who seemed to be kind normal folk but who ALL, both uncles (2), aunt (1) and 2 grandmothers did nothing to help me and deferred, catered to and seemed intimidated by, my raging, vile Mother. The reason they did so is a mystery to me to this day, she treated them horribly as well but they could escape her as I could not.

The unusual part is I never, not even once used or even tried ANY drug, nor alcohol. Had zero interest. Yet I am a lot like an addict in my personality and behaviors, with the exception of being irresponsible. I am fanatical about being responsible.

I grew up a huge failure and had I not married well (twice) would have been on welfare I am sure.

I DO NOT blame my rearing for me being the loser I am, I had advantages many do not: money, looks, health.

I've seen too many examples of kids raised as I was, by sick abusers, do well, and the reverse, kids raised in wonderful homes by doting parents, who are total losers.
The answer to OP's q, WHY, is inherent ability. Coping ability, resilience, problem solving, resourcefulness, Some are born with these traits and others, not.

My main take-away is STOP BLAMING your rearing. After age 18 YOU alone are in charge and if you fail (as I have done) it is your fault.

[Meyerland]

It's a mix of nature and nurture. It's individual personality, innate ability and your experiences. It's a complicated mess, which is why it's hard to predict how a child will do in life.

the marshmallow test is interesting. It's where you put a marshmallow or treat in front on a toddler/young child and tell them if they wait to eat it, you will give them two when you get back.

If they can wait, it demonstrates self control to get a bigger reward.

Of course the experiment didn't take into account if you trust the person giving you the treat. Some kids may not trust that they will get to eat that marshmallow if they don't eat it right away. So, it's still complicated.

[DelmarvaNative]

I agree that you should write a book on this, it'd probably be a fulfilling experience for you.

I think one of the most important points is the personal relationship between a parent (or parents) and a child (or children).

Say one brother had a 'better' connection to his father than the other brother or the father was more willing at 'the right time' to connect with the other son. Relatively same experience, growing up in same household, same financial situation etc. but a different personal connection...

So on the surface it can be labeled 'nature' or 'nurture' but I think it's something, anything somewhere in all of the intricate factors that compose 'nature and nurture'.

EDIT: I'm not talking about 'blatant neglect', rather unconscious preference