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Old 03-22-2008, 10:26 PM
 
1,623 posts, read 5,754,019 times
Reputation: 438

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Wow. I just know myself well enough to know that I don’t have the interest in children to raise them. “So screwed up” – interesting judgment.



Don’t you think we’ve thought our decision through? We don’t want babies, children or adults that come to us through childbirth or adoption.

I’m happy that you find sheer pleasure in your children. Childfree people don’t want that experience. Simple as that.

This is a thinly veiled: but they’re different if they’re your own.



Interesting stereotype, but why do you assume that your children will be around when you’re old? Don’t people who are childfree have a family and friend support system that is based on mutual respect and love?

Look at homes for the aged and infirm. There are a lot of people who never have visitors.
Just because you have kids, there is no guarantee that they’ll want to be near you.
Why do you assume that people your age will be around? Or that your nieces and nephews will give a crap? I know how I'm raising my children and while I won't be dependent on them or rely on them to care for me, I at least know they will visit me and can make decisions for me should I become incapacitated.

You and I have had this discussion on another thread. Saying my kids won't be there for me but the hired help or your friends and other family will take care of you is ridiculous.

You can't have it both ways; if I'm dying alone, you definitely are. But I know I will have kids who were raised with my same value system and sense of family because I've instilled it in them. You will have some folks who may or may not come through, or even be alive/able to come through. My odds are much better than that.

Last edited by orrmobl; 03-22-2008 at 10:50 PM..

 
Old 03-22-2008, 10:46 PM
 
1,623 posts, read 5,754,019 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Wow, this sounds more like enslaving or shackling than teaching children to be adults in their own mold. My question would be why would you have children if you didn’t want them to be curious and happy doing what their heart desires?

No offense, but if this is how I were raised, I would have left the area at 18.



Wow, again. So, it’s alright for you to denigrate a group of people who choose not to do something, and the effect of their choice does not impact you. Judgment?

Are you saying that there are no parents who “Partying/wild sex/whole world tied up in spouse issues, psychological issues, just plain 'ol me-me-me issues.”

Who is “thumbing their nose” at your “biological imperative” – and even if we do, why does that make us people with “psychological problems?” What is this “policy” of being childfree that you speak of? Fascism handbook? Please tell me where I can get this? Amazon, perhaps?

This attitude is why this childfree person tries to avoid people like you. Your attitude is one of the reason why there are militant childfree people. Do what you want, at least I was smart enough to know that I shouldn’t have kids. Not everyone is that smart.



Who?Me? was simply responding to the parents’ comments on this thread. They’re the ones who seem to be threatened by the decision to be childfree.

Avoid? You come looking for it. You are pathological, like the rest of the fanatics. To be honest I had no opinion one way or the other until I read all the disgusting epithets used to describe parents and children...You guys are like PETA without the underlying good cause, you are all juvenile methods and ways of thinking but you have an agenda with no real purpose save act like children with your petty name calling and temper tantrums about other people daring to disrupt your little bubble of perfection...get over it already.

When Hitler wanted the Germans to hate the Jews he called them rats, vermin, a cancer. When child free people refer to breeders and crotch this and that, lizards, demons, its the same damn thing. I'm amazed at how people I would guess are pretty liberal/left leaning have no problem with labeling and name calling. Just substitute black or woman or gay for child and see how well the labels fit or would be tolerated.

As for my children being happy, of course I want it. But I will also teach them that people matter and people are worth more than things. If my relative was in need, I would postpone traveling until things were settled. But you wouldn't understand that because you think only about yourself, hence the inability to understand the value of human relationships or occasional self sacrifice, what would be the point right?

My friend's aunt has 3 free spirited sons, they travel the world, they live all over the country, and they avoid seeing her and her ex husband like the plague. She raised them thinking they were the centers of their own universes, and guess what? They still are! That's not what I want for my kids either, and I'm pretty sure it isn't what she was going for in raising them in the overindulgent Dr. Spock manner in which she did...but you reap what you sow.

So somehow I doubt folks like me made the child free fanatics fanatical. Rather it was their own parents, through genetic inheritance and poor child rearing that has resulted in a bunch of people whining about the world reproducing and how it inconveniences them, while ignoring the fact that without reproduction they wouldn't be here and the world as they know it wouldn't exist. Rather ungrateful and short sighted, wouldn't you say?
 
Old 03-22-2008, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,060,346 times
Reputation: 11268
Quote:
Originally Posted by orrmobl View Post
Hmm let me see...maybe because we are called "breeders" and our children are called all manner of nasty things by child free fanatics. That tends to make us a tad cranky. If you read my post carefully I fully admitted some parents would've better off not having children, just as I've said all child free fanatical types are definitely better off not having children.

But don't you see that all the fears child freeers use as excuses to not have kids are nothing but the irrational fears of immature minds? As I also said, the child free policy on a large scale is a failure...after all that's what organisms do to continue to survive - they reproduce.

After all, that's how you got here, isn't it?
Please tell me where, on this thread, anyone has referred to you or other parents as “breeders?” I do use that term because it is a fact. Look it up. Yes, you don’t like it so I’m not using it here.

You’re the one referring to all childfree people as fanatics. Perhaps we’re just a bit self-aware; perhaps parents, or parents to be, might enjoy participating in it, too.

We don’t need excuses for our choice. It is our choice, not yours to judge. Our choice has no effect on your decision. I don’t understand why that is such a difficult concept.

Again, I’ll ask you What childfree policy? Your responses are more in the “irrational fears of immature minds” if you believe that all people should procreate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orrmobl View Post
You and I have had this discussion on another thread. Saying my kids won't be there for me but the hired help or your friends and other family will take care of you is ridiculous.
There’s no guarantee either way; but I’ve cultivated friendships and relationships over the years that won’t preclude my being cared for. Neither is the fact that you’ve raised children guarantee that you will be cared for by them.

You have no idea that your children will not die before you do.
I’m not going to get into an argument about the future with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orrmobl View Post
Avoid? You come looking for it. You are pathological, like the rest of the fanatics. To be honest I had no opinion one way or the other until I read all the disgusting epithets used to describe parents and children...You guys are like PETA without the underlying good cause, [u]you are all juvenile methods and ways of thinking but you have an agenda with no real purpose save act like children with your petty name calling and temper tantrums about other people daring to disrupt your little bubble of perfection...get over it already.[/u}
I do enjoy your name calling, it shows how well adjusted you are! Who on this thread has been name calling except for the parents? Please show me one post where a childfree person has called a parent any name.

You complain about the childfree lumping parents into one group, although I don’t see that as being true. Yet, you do the same with name calling, how delightfully mature.

Last edited by chielgirl; 03-23-2008 at 12:16 AM..
 
Old 03-22-2008, 11:24 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,060,346 times
Reputation: 11268
Quote:
Originally Posted by orrmobl View Post
When Hitler wanted the Germans to hate the Jews he called them rats, vermin, a cancer. When child free people refer to breeders and crotch this and that, lizards, demons, its the same damn thing. I'm amazed at how people I would guess are pretty liberal/left leaning have no problem with labeling and name calling. Just substitute black or woman or gay for child and see how well the labels fit or would be tolerated.
So now you’re comparing people who choose not to have children, something that doesn’t affect you in any way, to Hitler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orrmobl View Post
As for my children being happy, of course I want it. But I will also teach them that people matter and people are worth more than things. If my relative was in need, I would postpone traveling until things were settled. But you wouldn't understand that because you think only about yourself, hence the inability to understand the value of human relationships or occasional self sacrifice, what would be the point right?
So you will shackle them to care for you. Why not let them make that decision for themselves.
Why would you assume that I know nothing about human relationships? Those are some pretty hefty blinders you’re wearing, do they give you a headache?

Quote:
Originally Posted by orrmobl View Post
My friend's aunt has 3 free spirited sons, they travel the world, they live all over the country, and they avoid seeing her and her ex husband like the plague. She raised them thinking they were the centers of their own universes, and guess what? They still are! That's not what I want for my kids either, and I'm pretty sure it isn't what she was going for in raising them in the overindulgent Dr. Spock manner in which she did...but you reap what you sow.
So she taught them to follow their dreams and be happy.
Are you so sure your kids won’t look at you the same way? And avoid you like the plague. You have no guarantee that this will not occur with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orrmobl View Post
So somehow I doubt folks like me made the child free fanatics fanatical. Rather it was their own parents, through genetic inheritance and poor child rearing that has resulted in a bunch of people whining about the world reproducing and how it inconveniences them, while ignoring the fact that without reproduction they wouldn't be here and the world as they know it wouldn't exist. Rather ungrateful and short sighted, wouldn't you say?
So now you’re blaming us for not having kids.
Just because something is good for you, does not make it good for everyone.
We made choices different from your choice.

I’m sorry that you cannot see this except through a veil of fear, hatred and ignorance.
 
Old 03-22-2008, 11:46 PM
 
3,088 posts, read 7,634,594 times
Reputation: 2024
Quote:
Originally Posted by orrmobl View Post
Oh I'm pretty sure you will find plenty of people willing to help end your and their suffering.

I'm 100% sure the days of wanting kids to work on the farm or whatever are way over. People have kids because they love kids and want them or they are too stupid for birth control or they have a biological urge to reproduce or a bunch of other reasons. But investing time, money, and putting your goals on hold/not attaining them in hopes of a caregiver when you get old is a ludicrous bet few would make. Rather it's when you realize how insignificant those things are in the greater scheme of things of which you become part once you have a child, that you willfully would give anything up for them, including your life.

But I'm sure folks like you feel the same way about your jobs and cats, right?
Let me retract the statement about it being a reason. Instead let me say the majority in this society has kids because it is a check on the list and they see them as a benefit because they have someone to take care of them when their older. Yes their is the minority that has them on accident etc but I am not talking about.

I just thought I throw my 2 cents in since I saw something in the thread about it no need to get all pissy. Oh and I hate cats does that make me apart of the cat free movement?
 
Old 03-23-2008, 05:58 AM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
8,737 posts, read 6,173,776 times
Reputation: 4859
I think people are so darn opinionated that it borders on being controlling. I have my opinion too but what others do mostly doesn't affect me so why should I throw insults at someone who makes a choice I don't agree with? I think no matter what the choice is, everyone has valid reasons for it. So what if it's not popular? Do I have to have kids because society says so? Or not have any because it tells me so? Gosh we do have free will and should do what we're comfortable with.
If you hate cats or dogs, don't get any as pets..simple...but no one should call you names because of it. Nor should those who don't like them ridicule those who do.
 
Old 03-23-2008, 09:51 AM
 
21,044 posts, read 19,009,919 times
Reputation: 5929
Quote:
Originally Posted by orrmobl View Post
Hmm let me see...maybe because we are called "breeders" and our children are called all manner of nasty things by child free fanatics. That tends to make us a tad cranky. If you read my post carefully I fully admitted some parents would've better off not having children, just as I've said all child free fanatical types are definitely better off not having children.

But don't you see that all the fears child freeers use as excuses to not have kids are nothing but the irrational fears of immature minds? As I also said, the child free policy on a large scale is a failure...after all that's what organisms do to continue to survive - they reproduce.

That is how you got here, isn't it?

"So, if your friends jumpd off a bridge would you do it too?"

Ever heard THAT from your mom? Well, you're hearing it from me because obviously you are easily controlled by others.
Why do you place so much emphasis on what those "immature minds" think of you?

The childfree "policy" is a failure? What "policy"?
My decision to not have kids is not a failure.. I didn't have kids.

Why do you refer to our reasons as "fears"? I didn't fear children, I just wasn't interested in raising them.....why is that so hard for you to understand?

Why do you refer to humans as "organisms"? We are much more than that and SOME of us can reason.....


Your ""That is how you got here, isn't it?" just doesn't make any sense whatsoever...are you saying I should reproduce because my parents did???


If so (I can't think of ANY other reason for that statement) then , it may come as a shock to you but my parents raised independent thinkers who do as they wish....not what society tells them they "SHOULD" do.

Can you rationally answer any of the above questions?
 
Old 03-23-2008, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
10,716 posts, read 31,030,974 times
Reputation: 6654
Quote:
Originally Posted by orrmobl View Post
Avoid? You come looking for it. You are pathological, like the rest of the fanatics. To be honest I had no opinion one way or the other until I read all the disgusting epithets used to describe parents and children...You guys are like PETA without the underlying good cause, you are all juvenile methods and ways of thinking but you have an agenda with no real purpose save act like children with your petty name calling and temper tantrums about other people daring to disrupt your little bubble of perfection...get over it already.

When Hitler wanted the Germans to hate the Jews he called them rats, vermin, a cancer. When child free people refer to breeders and crotch this and that, lizards, demons, its the same damn thing. I'm amazed at how people I would guess are pretty liberal/left leaning have no problem with labeling and name calling. Just substitute black or woman or gay for child and see how well the labels fit or would be tolerated.

As for my children being happy, of course I want it. But I will also teach them that people matter and people are worth more than things. If my relative was in need, I would postpone traveling until things were settled. But you wouldn't understand that because you think only about yourself, hence the inability to understand the value of human relationships or occasional self sacrifice, what would be the point right?

My friend's aunt has 3 free spirited sons, they travel the world, they live all over the country, and they avoid seeing her and her ex husband like the plague. She raised them thinking they were the centers of their own universes, and guess what? They still are! That's not what I want for my kids either, and I'm pretty sure it isn't what she was going for in raising them in the overindulgent Dr. Spock manner in which she did...but you reap what you sow.

So somehow I doubt folks like me made the child free fanatics fanatical. Rather it was their own parents, through genetic inheritance and poor child rearing that has resulted in a bunch of people whining about the world reproducing and how it inconveniences them, while ignoring the fact that without reproduction they wouldn't be here and the world as they know it wouldn't exist. Rather ungrateful and short sighted, wouldn't you say?
Sorry to dissappoint here, I have one child and I have to agree with alot of what they say. I think some people have no more sense then to breed when they shouldn't even have a house plant to take care of. I have seen some brain dead mf with children, having children doesn't suddenly give someone a brain, or wash away the sins or anything else, it doesn't bring you closer to your Santa Jesus or make you worthy or whatever else people seem to think.

Historically, making sure your woman gave you children was a way to keep control of her, socialogically speaking that is.

Its easy to see how child free people come up with calling people whose ENTIRE lives are centered around children breeders. I have been around people who can't string two words together that are not about their kids. Its like their brains of turned to babyfood. Breeders are just as good a name as any for these brain donors.
 
Old 03-23-2008, 08:16 PM
 
1,623 posts, read 5,754,019 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
I actually do want to have children. Way to assume. And I'm not an only child.

However, I tend to have much more respect for childfree parents than people who feel the need to be rude and self-righteous for their own choice to reproduce.
Oh then are your siblings going to be there for your parents? If not, I'd suggest you join the child free movement immediately.

And what exactly is a "childfree parent"?
 
Old 03-23-2008, 08:30 PM
 
1,623 posts, read 5,754,019 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who?Me?! View Post
"So, if your friends jumpd off a bridge would you do it too?"

Ever heard THAT from your mom? Well, you're hearing it from me because obviously you are easily controlled by others.
Why do you place so much emphasis on what those "immature minds" think of you?

The childfree "policy" is a failure? What "policy"?
My decision to not have kids is not a failure.. I didn't have kids.

Why do you refer to our reasons as "fears"? I didn't fear children, I just wasn't interested in raising them.....why is that so hard for you to understand?

Why do you refer to humans as "organisms"? We are much more than that and SOME of us can reason.....


Your ""That is how you got here, isn't it?" just doesn't make any sense whatsoever...are you saying I should reproduce because my parents did???


If so (I can't think of ANY other reason for that statement) then , it may come as a shock to you but my parents raised independent thinkers who do as they wish....not what society tells them they "SHOULD" do.

Can you rationally answer any of the above questions?
If jumping off a bridge insured the continuation of the species, I'm sure most of us would.

My point is that those who think reproduction unnecessary are deluded.

All humans are living organisms. We are animals, sorry to break it to you. And those of us who choose to become parents don't like to be called breeders.

Do I really have to explain all this - how can people be disdainful of a process by which they came to be? Not wanting to have kids is fine, looking down one's nose at those who do is delusional.

And I believe those who are fanatically child free are afraid of not having their needs met for a change, of being inconvenienced, of not attaining all their material and career goals, and quite possibly of not being capable of loving and being loved.

Society doesn't tell you to have kids, but ALL living things are designed to reproduce. If you choose to ignore that design and not reproduce, bully for you, but don't try to legitimize your choice by denigrating the choice of others, especially when there are larger issues at stake like the continuation of the human race.
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