What really gets me is when people say that women who don't want kids are "selfish". (childcare, legal)

[mommiewrites]

I can't imagine life without kids (although some days, the thought sure does seem appealing! lol) but if someone truly doesnt WANT kids- how is that selfish? They are doing what is right for THEM. Having kids was right for me- that doesn't mean its for everyone!

I've known too many people who had kids and really shouldn't have- all because they thought it was what they were 'supposed' to do!

[missannie]

I think it would be wrong and selfish to bring kids in the world knowing you don't want any. There are enough kids in foster care and needing homes, why bring more in the world if you don't want them?
It's not like humans are a dying breed.

[brightdoglover]

I"m not sure why people find the opposite of "selfish childfrees" to be "selfless parents." People make their choices because of what they want to do. And not all CF's otherwise "contribute" by volunteering, etc. I hardly consider all parents to be "contributing" by raising their children. They create a situation- having children- and if decent and responsible, do the right thing of attempting to raise them well. In a sense, they solve the problem they created. I picture an endless line of Russian nesting dolls- people having kids to raise them well so they'll have kids and raise them well and on and on. I don't think of raising children as a "contribution," but as doing the right thing after making a particular choice.
By the way, at least for me, this CF gal only posts (or reads) discussions on this forum that are relevant and appropriate for CFs to post on. Obviously, most of it is for parents.

[redpanda]

Totally agree with you, monkeygorilla! That attitude is one that makes me laugh out loud quite regularly. Let's face it, WANTING children is the ultimate in selfishness. There is no reason to want children other than selfishness--what good does you increasing the population and spreading the resources even more thinly do the world? None at all.
Next time you meet with those people, tell them that people who are truly unselfish would never have children, and would instead spend the time and money that would have gone to them supporting things like cancer research.

BTW--I have a son and plan on having another child. But hell yes wanting and having a child is selfish.

[KristyLiz]

Originally Posted by silverwing

A CF forum, by its own definition, has to be a place where we can vent, sometimes vociferously, raucously and with much atrocious language. It's not easy being CF in a world that is so child/family centered. And you know what? Sometimes .. scratch that .. MANY TIMES, we CFs don't think parenting is all that great a thing. And we like having a place where we can SAY that without a comment like yours.

Yikes - why so defensive?

Let me tell you, if I had no kids, the last place I'd want to hang out is a parenting board! I mean with such a full, rewarding child free life, I'd think wasting your time defending your "choice" would be very low on your list of priorities.

Hey, live and let live, just don't go bashing others' choices. The desire to pair off and raise children is the most basic of all instincts, so while you may have chosen not to raise a family, I can pretty much guarantee you that it's not a trend that's gonna really take off.

[brightdoglover]

Actually, it is taking off, at least among people in urban areas with more education.
I think the thing is, having kids was never a choice before, essentially before the Pill around 1960 and forward, and when social life for women dictated marriage as a necessity. For a mere few decades, in only some places, has marriage and childbearing been a choice. Social life (education/work) for women has followed. It's only been a brief amount of time. Heavens, I'm 54, and I remember not getting into the college of my choice because they'd JUST started taking "women and blacks" and wanted to go slowly, so only a few of us outsiders could get in. (This was a state-funded university of some merit). I remember job ads in the newspaper as "Male Help Wanted" and "Female Help Wanted." This was in a major East Coast city.
So it's not surprising that people's ideas of what's "natural" hasn't caught up to the reality of new social lives. It's natural to expect something that you have no ability not to choose. I do believe that some people deeply and personally want to be parents, but I don't know how many people recognize it as a choice. That's why I think some parents resent childfree people, because they never thought of it as a choice, and they might not like what their lives are. Anecdotally, the people I know who are happy with their parenthood are curious about my CF thinking, not threatened.

[abbmac]

Originally Posted by KristyLiz

The desire to pair off and raise children is the most basic of all instincts, so while you may have chosen not to raise a family, I can pretty much guarantee you that it's not a trend that's gonna really take off.

One study found that 14% of married couples today chose not to have children. In 3 years that number is expected to rise to 20%.

The most basic of all instincts is to mate with as many people as possible, as often as possible. Marrying for life and raising 2.1 kids to the age of 18 is actually a social norm, not a biological one.

I think it's interesting that you think the childfree are being defensive, yet you don't want them on this board, you put the word choice in quotes, and you imply that their life choice is unnatural. Hmmmmmm....

[sean98125]

Originally Posted by corel

Being a mother is all about giving, giving of ones time, energy, sleep, money, peace of mind, etc.... And if someone has decided or realized that they are unable or unwilling to give that, I support them in their decision to not have children. No one is in any position to judge.

How does that differ from being selfish?

[Sampaguita]

I don't care whether someone wants to be CF or not - that's a lifestyle choice that is none of my business. And I don't think it's a measure of selfishness either. There are enough people bringing children into the world who ARE selfish. The whole argument, IMHO, is ridiculous.

I support both sides of the coin - whatever floats your boat.

I personally find it interesting knowing far more people in real life that are CF and critical of people who have children/desire to have children than the other way around. It's not all our CF acquaintances/friends but there are a good number that are actually quite ept at making snide & sarcastic comments to us about procreating or being parents. I guess that's where I have to question "why so nasty?".

[KristyLiz]

Originally Posted by Sampaguita

I personally find it interesting knowing far more people in real life that are CF and critical of people who have children/desire to have children than the other way around. It's not all our CF acquaintances/friends but there are a good number that are actually quite ept at making snide & sarcastic comments to us about procreating or being parents. I guess that's where I have to question "why so nasty?".

EXACTLY!!

I don't know why it's OK for CF people to make negative comments about raising children - because god forbid if we made a negative comment to them.