What really gets me is when people say that women who don't want kids are "selfish". (teaching, babies)

[charolastra00]

Originally Posted by wannabeaTexan

You have a point, but if you raise them right, why would they let you die alone? I would never let my parents die alone.

I was raised well and I love my parents- but my career and life are going to take me abroad. Unless my parents follow me around the world, then I simply won't be there. If I were to chose to have my own children, they will not be raised in the US- even if my own parents are ill. I've discussed it with my family and they encourage it.

Similarly with my own parents, their lives took them 1000 miles from their parents and they are NOT in a position to move back despite my grandparents' old age. Does this mean they were raised by wolves? Far from it.

[GracieJJ]

Originally Posted by monkeygorilla

I think in some cases, its more selfish to have a child if you/ your partner are not ready yet. And some people never will be. I think its very mature to recognize that a child might not be ready for you, rather than to have one because of family/peer pressure. How is making that choice selfish?

I was out to dinner with some friends and they were going on & on about how selfish women are who chose to not have children. It made me really angry...

By the way, I just found this found this forum today & am so excited I did!!

I think its very responsible for individuals to have kids when they feel their ready and "OK" with it.

The worst kind are people who screw eachother like theres no tomorrow and bringing in children to the world without an ounce of clue how to look after them or simply dont want them.

[b75]

Seriously! How is it selfish to forgo one's own desires to have children in favor of ensuring the best environment for said children to grow up?

Originally Posted by GracieJJ

I think its very responsible for individuals to have kids when they feel their ready and "OK" with it.

The worst kind are people who screw eachother like theres no tomorrow and bringing in children to the world without an ounce of clue how to look after them or simply dont want them.

[GracieJJ]

Originally Posted by b75

Seriously! How is it selfish to forgo one's own desires to have children in favor of ensuring the best environment for said children to grow up?

You what mate? . can you say that in English??

[orrmobl]

Originally Posted by charolastra00

I was raised well and I love my parents- but my career and life are going to take me abroad. Unless my parents follow me around the world, then I simply won't be there. If I were to chose to have my own children, they will not be raised in the US- even if my own parents are ill. I've discussed it with my family and they encourage it.

Similarly with my own parents, their lives took them 1000 miles from their parents and they are NOT in a position to move back despite my grandparents' old age. Does this mean they were raised by wolves? Far from it.

And I would argue that if you were truly raised well, you would find a way to stay near your parents or not consider traveling the world. I assume you are an only child? Is that reason choice or chance? Because if it is choice, it speaks volumes about your parents' attitudes towards parenting, children, family, and thus speaks to your desire to not reproduce as well.

[orrmobl]

Moderator cut: orphaned

And you came to this conclusion how? Just because some people don't want kids doesn't mean they are screwed up. Now maybe some chose not to have kids because they DO have some sort of genetic illness or other issue but many don't have them 'cause they just don't wanna. It isn't as black and white as you are suggesting. Your comment is quite rude. Yes, I am childfree by the way.

J[/quote]

Because I know people who have chosen not to have children and I've read posts from the fanatical child freeers. Some love kids, some loathe them. But all have issues that would make them bad parents. Partying/wild sex/whole world tied up in spouse issues, psychological issues, just plain 'ol me-me-me issues. And I'm sorry but ignoring a biological imperative while thumbing your nose at those who do not speaks to underlying problems. Not having children doesn't make anyone superior or inferior, but the policy on a large scale is a failure. Why not acknowledge that instead of whining about kids making noise in places they have every right to be? And how bout the legitimization of the group through the derogatory labeling of another group. This is right out of the fascism handbook. Anyone who supports that kind of rhetoric, or the people who spew it, are just plain screwed up.

This is not to say my aunt who did reproduce doesn't have major narcissism and shouldn't have had kids. But her kids seem to be generally good people and I hope their impact on the world will be a positive one. They certainly don't seem as screwed up as their mother's behavior would make one assume them to be. But they did have a good, stable, caring father...I'm assuming his helping raise them and his genes helped mellow out all the crazy.

[Who?Me?!]

Originally Posted by southdown

Of course, as you say, they are always 'your child' no matter what their age.

I was kind of joking by saying that once they grow up we are all 'childfree' - I guess I was slightly laughing at the word....

The defenders of 'childfreedom' don't seem to realise that... kids grow up! They only seem to mention the relatively short period of time when children are a burden, needing constant care - they never mention that (for example) when they are elderly they won't want to have a 35-year-old son who helps out with cutting the lawn!

My more serious point is that those who are so anxious to defend their choice not to have kids (which BTW is fine by me, you do what you want) is that they seem to focus on the babyhood and childhood so much, and how that stage would inconvenience and detract from their goals in life.

Children will not be children for long and most people who have children do go on and have a full life around their kids, and gradually re-expand their life as the kids grow up and need them less.

If you really don't want kids then great, wonderful, off you go - do your own thing!

But don't be short-sighted and forget that a few years' partial sacrifice of your freedom may well bring more valuable and far, far longer-term achievements, satisfaction and sheer pleasure....

How SELFISH! Having children to see what you can get from them when they grow up!

[Who?Me?!]

Originally Posted by mommabear2

I'm sorry silverwing, I must have given you the impression that I cared about your life as a CF. You are well within your right to bash the cruel world of children/families/parents - I can see now that you can't help yourself. But I don't have to read it - "Settings... Ignore... silverwing." Your writings strongly suggest that you are really unhappy. I truly hope that's not the case.

Moderator cut: unnecessary

I didn't read one single word in Silverwings post that indicated unhappiness...that's just wishful thinking on your part

Moderator cut: once again

Moderator cut: and again

[nitokenshi]

this again? I read somewhere in this thread about the kids taking care of the rents in their old age. I truly believe that is why the mass majority pops out kids as a safety blanket. If your a parent deep down inside you know its true even if you do not want to admit it. Frankly if I get to the point where I am urinating and defecating on myself + I cannot remember my name. I would rather just pay a visit to Dr.Kavorikian (sp?) and end it.

Thats all you guys can go back to the debating

[sbd78]

Originally Posted by nitokenshi

this again? I read somewhere in this thread about the kids taking care of the rents in their old age. I truly believe that is why the mass majority pops out kids as a safety blanket. If your a parent deep down inside you know its true even if you do not want to admit it. Frankly if I get to the point where I am urinating and defecating on myself + I cannot remember my name. I would rather just pay a visit to Dr.Kavorikian (sp?) and end it.

Thats all you guys can go back to the debating

I can assure you that having someone to take care of me when I'm old was NEVER a factor in my decision to have a child. In fact, that never crossed my mind, and I'm pretty sure it never crossed my parent's mind when they decided to have me. I'm not quite sure why both sides of this argument feel the need to hurl insults at each other and keep the argument going. If you want kids, have them. (Assuming you can take care of them, of course!) If you don't want kids, don't have them. Whether or not one has children is a personal decision, I for the life of me can't figure out why it is a cause of such controversy. Do what you want, let others do what they want, and respect each others choices.