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Most people have kids because they like to have sex, and they like to be a part of what everyone else is doing. Even for those who don't want kids birth control is not foolproof--it has just as much human error as anything else. After a while being bashed for being different gets kind of lonely, anyway. Life is one big series of compromises, after which some of us spend a whole lot of time justifying our relatively thoughtless choices by fervently justifying them.
There are millions of children in the world whose parents shouldnt have had them, based on the way they are treated. If there is ANY doubt, err on the side of caution. I had some reversals of fortune in my 20s and realized I would never have the money to raise them the way they deserved to be raised, so I decided not to have any. Please think it over VERY, VERY carefully before you make this life-changing decision.
I think in some cases, its more selfish to have a child if you/ your partner are not ready yet. And some people never will be. I think its very mature to recognize that a child might not be ready for you, rather than to have one because of family/peer pressure. How is making that choice selfish?
I was out to dinner with some friends and they were going on & on about how selfish women are who chose to not have children. It made me really angry...
By the way, I just found this found this forum today & am so excited I did!!
I didn't read all other responses, but this is my opinion on the situation.
A lot of the time parents who have children as much as they enjoy parenthood, some part of them still misses the time when they didn't have children. When they could do all they please to do, when they had the freedom to have dinner and conversation w/out being interrupted or have sex in the middle of the kitchen without being afraid of getting caught.
They miss those days and they secretly slightly envious of those couples who don't have children. Or let me refrase, they are envious of the freedom those couples have. So the statement of accusing couples who dont have children being selfish is a way to lash out their frustration.
They want everyone to go thru parenthood of not sleeping at nights, of diaper changing, of night feedings etc...
I have a 2 1/2 year old boy and let me tell you, I WOULD NOT TRADE MOTHERHOOD FOR ANYTHING. I love being a mom, yes, its hard, yes, it's a challenge, but I love it. However, I do once in the while wish to get just a taste of that freedom I had prior my son. Being envious of that freedom is MY OWN ISSUE. It is not anyone's problem but my own.
Couples decided they don't want kids. Its their prerogative. Parenthood is not for everyone.
Wow. I just know myself well enough to know that I don’t have the interest in children to raise them. “So screwed up” – interesting judgment.
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Originally Posted by southdown
But don't be short-sighted and forget that a few years' partial sacrifice of your freedom may well bring more valuable and far, far longer-term achievements, satisfaction and sheer pleasure....
Don’t you think we’ve thought our decision through? We don’t want babies, children or adults that come to us through childbirth or adoption.
I’m happy that you find sheer pleasure in your children. Childfree people don’t want that experience. Simple as that.
This is a thinly veiled: but they’re different if they’re your own.
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Originally Posted by orrmobl
Yeah but the flip side is that those people will have a boatload more disposable income - look at gay couples who don't have kids, they're stinkin rich...so the childless by choice people can hire an entire infrastructure to support them in their old age.
It's sad to die alone though, that's one thing they can't fix with money and one thing I don't think I could bear...
Interesting stereotype, but why do you assume that your children will be around when you’re old? Don’t people who are childfree have a family and friend support system that is based on mutual respect and love?
Look at homes for the aged and infirm. There are a lot of people who never have visitors.
Just because you have kids, there is no guarantee that they’ll want to be near you.
Last edited by jeannie216; 03-24-2008 at 06:49 PM..
And I would argue that if you were truly raised well, you would find a way to stay near your parents or not consider traveling the world. I assume you are an only child? Is that reason choice or chance? Because if it is choice, it speaks volumes about your parents' attitudes towards parenting, children, family, and thus speaks to your desire to not reproduce as well.
Wow, this sounds more like enslaving or shackling than teaching children to be adults in their own mold. My question would be why would you have children if you didn’t want them to be curious and happy doing what their heart desires?
No offense, but if this is how I were raised, I would have left the area at 18.
Quote:
Originally Posted by orrmobl
Because I know people who have chosen not to have children and I've read posts from the fanatical child freeers. Some love kids, some loathe them. But all have issues that would make them bad parents. Partying/wild sex/whole world tied up in spouse issues, psychological issues, just plain 'ol me-me-me issues. And I'm sorry but ignoring a biological imperative while thumbing your nose at those who do not speaks to underlying problems. Not having children doesn't make anyone superior or inferior, but the policy on a large scale is a failure. Why not acknowledge that instead of whining about kids making noise in places they have every right to be? And how bout the legitimization of the group through the derogatory labeling of another group. This is right out of the fascism handbook. Anyone who supports that kind of rhetoric, or the people who spew it, are just plain screwed up.
This is not to say my aunt who did reproduce doesn't have major narcissism and shouldn't have had kids. But her kids seem to be generally good people and I hope their impact on the world will be a positive one. They certainly don't seem as screwed up as their mother's behavior would make one assume them to be. But they did have a good, stable, caring father...I'm assuming his helping raise them and his genes helped mellow out all the crazy.
Wow, again. So, it’s alright for you to denigrate a group of people who choose not to do something, and the effect of their choice does not impact you. Judgment?
Are you saying that there are no parents who “Partying/wild sex/whole world tied up in spouse issues, psychological issues, just plain 'ol me-me-me issues.”
Who is “thumbing their nose” at your “biological imperative” – and even if we do, why does that make us people with “psychological problems?” What is this “policy” of being childfree that you speak of? Fascism handbook? Please tell me where I can get this? Amazon, perhaps?
This attitude is why this childfree person tries to avoid people like you. Your attitude is one of the reason why there are militant childfree people. Do what you want, at least I was smart enough to know that I shouldn’t have kids. Not everyone is that smart.
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Originally Posted by sbd78
I can assure you that having someone to take care of me when I'm old was NEVER a factor in my decision to have a child. In fact, that never crossed my mind, and I'm pretty sure it never crossed my parent's mind when they decided to have me. I'm not quite sure why both sides of this argument feel the need to hurl insults at each other and keep the argument going.
Who?Me? was simply responding to the parents’ comments on this thread. They’re the ones who seem to be threatened by the decision to be childfree.
Who?Me? was simply responding to the parents’ comments on this thread. They’re the ones who seem to be threatened by the decision to be childfree.
Actually, this response was directed at nitokenshi and his/her comment about parents having children to take care of them in old age whether they want to admit it or not. My comment about both sides of the argument hurling insults at each other was not directed at one specific person, it was a general comment directed at this thread and the other thread about regretting your decision to have kids that was closed.
And I would argue that if you were truly raised well, you would find a way to stay near your parents or not consider traveling the world. I assume you are an only child? Is that reason choice or chance? Because if it is choice, it speaks volumes about your parents' attitudes towards parenting, children, family, and thus speaks to your desire to not reproduce as well.
I actually do want to have children. Way to assume. And I'm not an only child.
However, I tend to have much more respect for childfree parents than people who feel the need to be rude and self-righteous for their own choice to reproduce.
Why are parents so nasty? So quick to throw out the insults? THIS is the example they set for their kids?
AND so ignorant.....
This poor insulated blind poster just doesn't see all the child abuse/ neglect cases ???? Abuse committed by PARENTS!
Orrmobi do you really think parents who neglect and abuse their children are well-adjusted just because they're parents...you are really sick.....
Hmm let me see...maybe because we are called "breeders" and our children are called all manner of nasty things by child free fanatics. That tends to make us a tad cranky. If you read my post carefully I fully admitted some parents would've better off not having children, just as I've said all child free fanatical types are definitely better off not having children.
But don't you see that all the fears child freeers use as excuses to not have kids are nothing but the irrational fears of immature minds? As I also said, the child free policy on a large scale is a failure...after all that's what organisms do to continue to survive - they reproduce.
this again? I read somewhere in this thread about the kids taking care of the rents in their old age. I truly believe that is why the mass majority pops out kids as a safety blanket. If your a parent deep down inside you know its true even if you do not want to admit it. Frankly if I get to the point where I am urinating and defecating on myself + I cannot remember my name. I would rather just pay a visit to Dr.Kavorikian (sp?) and end it.
Thats all you guys can go back to the debating
Oh I'm pretty sure you will find plenty of people willing to help end your and their suffering.
I'm 100% sure the days of wanting kids to work on the farm or whatever are way over. People have kids because they love kids and want them or they are too stupid for birth control or they have a biological urge to reproduce or a bunch of other reasons. But investing time, money, and putting your goals on hold/not attaining them in hopes of a caregiver when you get old is a ludicrous bet few would make. Rather it's when you realize how insignificant those things are in the greater scheme of things of which you become part once you have a child, that you willfully would give anything up for them, including your life.
But I'm sure folks like you feel the same way about your jobs and cats, right?
[quote=big daryle;3219387]There are millions of children in the world whose parents shouldnt have had them, based on the way they are treated. QUOTE]
And I would say a good number of them are current and future child free fanatics. Which is why its a good thing Darwin's Law holds for us as well.
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And I'm not an only child.