U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Parenting
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-12-2016, 01:09 PM
 
1,891 posts, read 1,136,351 times
Reputation: 4923

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie Jean McGee View Post
Did you not read my original post where I said the child has to learn to be quiet if wakeful?


My son especially would be up half the night


If I didn't hear him it was OK


It became HIS responsibility to ensure he got enough sleep to go to school the next day


and he did


he had wakeful periods but the rest of us never knew about them because he'd been taught to Consider Others (which is a parents job)


I also stated this is likely genetic, you will probably have a close relative who is exactly the same


Come to find out Mom used to be awake half the night too<<<this is important!!!!


Mom - would your Mother lying down with you at 5 make you sleepy?


OF COURSE NOT!


Would being able to get up, get a book and your torch and read in bed make you sleepy?


OF COURSE


Why aren't you training your little one to read in bed?

This whole philosophy is based on the premise that the child is to be taught to do what is best for the parent. It is completely opposite from my philosophy, which is that it is the parents' responsibility to do what is best for the child. I could never follow this advice.


Also, of course having mom lay down with you at 5 makes you sleepy. And no, reading a good book does not make you sleepy, it makes you want to stay up all night and finish the book.


Everything in this post is just backwards lol.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-12-2016, 01:43 PM
 
1,891 posts, read 1,136,351 times
Reputation: 4923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie Jean McGee View Post
A choice between between sleeping and not sleeping. Lying down and relaxing and not lying down and relaxing. Restinq quietly (even if its all night) or not resting quietly; blaming your parents and taking some ownership of what went down, for yourself.


I have a friend who has untold issues with sleep


and she does Every Thing Wrong including having pets in her room


shes on meds permanently exhausted has fibromyalgia needs sleeping pills and is in constant pain


all because she wont get a good nights sleep


She has choices too


She could quit coffee that's so thick you can stand a spoon up in it; quit smoking; get a healthier lifestyle; get the menagerie out of her room


You as a child or in your teens, could've put down the cola and energy drinks


Couldve ran round the oval or the block until you felt your lungs explode


Bet my house you didnt
You're talking about an adult. Of course an adult has choices. We're talking about a 5 year old. 5 year olds are generally not drinking soda or coffee, not smoking, and running around plenty. I know I for one never drank caffeine until my senior year of highschool, and was very active in extracurricular activities, taking hours of dance classes every day after school. (And no thanks, I don't gamble, and I have a nice house already).


Again, not all sleeping problems are behavioral. Some are, some aren't. If you treat them all as behavioral, nothing else, then you will not fix the ones that are not behavioral. As a parent of a small child, it is your responsibility to figure out why your child is not able to sleep, and fix the problem. Not just ignore it as long as the kid is quiet and leaves you alone.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2016, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,028 posts, read 98,908,697 times
Reputation: 31481
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkbab5 View Post
You're talking about an adult. Of course an adult has choices. We're talking about a 5 year old. 5 year olds are generally not drinking soda or coffee, not smoking, and running around plenty. I know I for one never drank caffeine until my senior year of highschool, and was very active in extracurricular activities, taking hours of dance classes every day after school. (And no thanks, I don't gamble, and I have a nice house already).


Again, not all sleeping problems are behavioral. Some are, some aren't. If you treat them all as behavioral, nothing else, then you will not fix the ones that are not behavioral. As a parent of a small child, it is your responsibility to figure out why your child is not able to sleep, and fix the problem. Not just ignore it as long as the kid is quiet and leaves you alone.
I agree! And the underlying assumption behind behavioral is "it's the parents' fault", which I have a big issue with as well. When all else fails, blame the parents.

I am the parent of a young adult who, as a child, was a very challenging kid. Believe me, I got lots of "advice" telling me it was my fault. If I could have changed her behavior I would have. One time when I said that, a co-worker of mine, who had a similar child, nodded her head in agreement.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2016, 02:36 PM
 
1,891 posts, read 1,136,351 times
Reputation: 4923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
I agree! And the underlying assumption behind behavioral is "it's the parents' fault", which I have a big issue with as well. When all else fails, blame the parents.

I am the parent of a young adult who, as a child, was a very challenging kid. Believe me, I got lots of "advice" telling me it was my fault. If I could have changed her behavior I would have. One time when I said that, a co-worker of mine, who had a similar child, nodded her head in agreement.



I read a book a while back that talked about how mothers of autistic children used to be blamed for their children's behavior, before autism was understood very well. Mothers "brought it upon themselves" and had to "live with the results" or "fix their previous mistakes". Just yuck.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2016, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,028 posts, read 98,908,697 times
Reputation: 31481
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkbab5 View Post



I read a book a while back that talked about how mothers of autistic children used to be blamed for their children's behavior, before autism was understood very well. Mothers "brought it upon themselves" and had to "live with the results" or "fix their previous mistakes". Just yuck.
Oh, yes! They were called "Refrigerator Moms".
The &ldquo;Refrigerator Mother&rdquo; Hypothesis of Autism
Parents, especially mothers, get blamed for lots of things.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2016, 12:15 AM
 
Location: Finland
6,319 posts, read 5,235,282 times
Reputation: 10153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Eyes View Post
Something I read in a book about kids at sleep makes me think it is a very bad idea to stay in the room with her. Dr. Stephen Ferber's book had really great information about sleep - sleep cycles, sleep associations. I think the information would be helpful for you to understand more about sleep itself. The associations part basically says that if she wants you in the room to go to sleep she will end up worrying that you'll leave. And that even if it works in the beginning, when she wakes up and finds you gone it will make her eventually unable to fall asleep because she will stay awake just to make sure you don't "disappear". He used the example of having your pillow fall off the bed while you're sleeping. If it happened once you'd pick it up and might not even really wake up. But if it fell at the same time every night you would start waking up before the time it was falling. And if someone was coming in at night and taking the pillow you would eventually lie awake all night making sure no one took the pillow. There was also info about sleep cycles. Adjusting bedtime might be something to consider. See if you can find the sweet spot for her. Too early and she will be antsy by the time the next cycle comes along. Too late and you miss it - you have to wait for the next one. It happens to me sometimes - I am exhausted at 10, but don't get in bed until 11 and then I've "missed my chance".

What you've mentioned about how she used to come out of bed a lot, how she wants you in the room, staying for a certain number of songs does sound like a bit of this is about control. And she did fall asleep easily when she had a really long day? I'd definitely hold off on the melatonin and just make some changes. As an adult I use melatonin occasionally but it is not meant for long term daily use.
It was a long day (14 hours up and active) after less than 8 hours sleep the night before so she was pretty sleep deprived. She had just as long and active day yesterday but was a nightmare again last night, gave up and let her sleep in our room because I was exhausted.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2016, 04:25 PM
 
1,891 posts, read 1,136,351 times
Reputation: 4923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natsku View Post
It was a long day (14 hours up and active) after less than 8 hours sleep the night before so she was pretty sleep deprived. She had just as long and active day yesterday but was a nightmare again last night, gave up and let her sleep in our room because I was exhausted.

I gotta go take my son to therapy, but real quick I'll leave a study I found here that looks interesting that might help: [SIZE=3]Interventions for Infant and Toddler Sleep Disturbance: A Review[/SIZE] http://www.tau.ac.il/~sadeh/baby/kuhn.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2016, 04:29 PM
 
1,039 posts, read 608,048 times
Reputation: 1730
Ask any doctor


Doctor, what is the best way to ensure insomnia in my 4/5 year old?


Being in the room<<<<right up there


I had one kid who slept like me (couldn't get to bed early enough) one kid who didn't (night owl)


I still don't know what time my son went to bed as a child but judging by the rings under his eyes some mornings it was far too late.


What would have changed if I'd monitored his sleep more closely?


Likely, nothing - he's still a night owl as an adult


What would've occurred most definitely, an Increase in Sleep Stress.


There is no way around this. OP is going to the extreme of lying down with a child that is (by OP's own admission) the child of a Night Owl.


This is Dysfunctional no matter which way you look at it, and further, likely to cause an Increase in Sleeplessness rather than a Reduction of it.


Its Making A Big Deal where (I suggest) none should exist.


This child is apparently not settling - just learning how to Fake it For Her Mother.


How is this Sensible Parenting?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2016, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Austin
7,083 posts, read 16,919,944 times
Reputation: 9503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natsku View Post
It was a long day (14 hours up and active) after less than 8 hours sleep the night before so she was pretty sleep deprived. She had just as long and active day yesterday but was a nightmare again last night, gave up and let her sleep in our room because I was exhausted.
I think you just enjoy watching your thread pop to the top because all you've tried thus far is a sticker chart. A sticker chart isn't going to help her get to sleep. A sticker chart isn't going to shut her brain off. You need to help her learn how to shut her brain off.

You need to look into meletonin. It's not a "drug". It's a natural chemical already in her brain. She might not have enough of it naturally. It's not for long term use, but it will teach her brain to shut down at night. It's been mentioned over and over again on all umpteen pages of this thread, but again, I don't think you're actually seeking help, you're just looking for more ways to keep getting people to respond so your thread pops to the top. Almost like that mother who intentionally hurts her child and takes them to the ER all the time just for the attention it gets.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2016, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Out West
20,694 posts, read 15,469,075 times
Reputation: 24244
OP, I've suffered from insomnia my entire life, yes, even as a kid as young as yours. My reasons will definitely not be your kid's reasons, but even when situations changed, my insomnia went on. My parents also made me turn everything off, be quiet, and lie there...that never made sleep happen any faster. Not. Once.

I discovered, however, that in the summers, or when I was getting over a cold, I could fall asleep a lot faster, almost as fast as a normal person.

In the summer, I had a box fan in my window to draw in cool air from outside.
When I was getting over a cold, my mom would put a humidifier in my room.

The noise lulled me off to sleep faster than anything else. I still use a fan to this day, although now I sometimes need other soothing noises.

I also started to pay attention to certain noises that would soothe me. This may sound silly, but pages of a book being turned, someone picking up their colored pencils and putting them back in to their plastic container, the "s" sounds that a boy in my class made when it was his turn to read out loud...all of those noises would make me want to fall asleep right then and there.

I still use my fan, but now sometimes I watch ASMR videos, not because they give me any sort of tingles, but because some of the noises are so soothing. Listening to someone crinkle paper, listening to someone tap something on wood, listening to someone whisper read a story...those people who put those videos up have me out in minutes...minutes! And this is from a life long insomniac who has had undergone many years without enough sleep.

Music never worked for me, no matter how soft and lullabyish it was. All I would want to do is stay up and listen to it. White noise, or the repetitive sounds that I mentioned above have done wonders.

Merely a suggestion to try...you never know.

Last edited by Three Wolves In Snow; 01-13-2016 at 07:29 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Parenting
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top