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Old 01-12-2016, 07:19 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
3,848 posts, read 1,644,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just A Guy View Post
Anyone can take a picture or video of anyone else in public and post it on the internet.
Sure, but was the kid in public? It sounds like she was @ the neighbors' - where this was all staged & recorded, & then put up on Facebook. The problem with enforcement of privacy against an unknown perp is very different from specific knowledge of the perp, down to Facebook page, date, real-time address, name, & so on. As someone pointed out, if the kid is a minor, no one has the right to put up her image anywhere without a release from the parent.


So, if you truly want to get sticky, you can complain directly to Facebook & have them take down the video, on pain of winding up in court. I'd check first, to see what Facebook's take is on stuff that's posted under these circumstances - if it's without informed consent (parent on behalf of a minor child), then they'll likely take it down. If the neighbor turns mulish, you can always demand his account be shut down. Check with legal first, though.


Yah, you can try to reason with the neighbor. It may get ugly, but stand your ground. If you don't give your consent, then he &/or Facebook are taking your child's image without permission. Stick to your guns, if you feel it's worthwhile.


Certainly schools, Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, gyms, martial arts schools, etc., etc. know that they have to have a signed release by competent authority - usually the parents - before the media or even in-school photog can take pixs or footage for public release.
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Old 01-12-2016, 07:25 PM
 
Location: here
24,839 posts, read 29,973,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName14289 View Post
It doesn't matter what the OP is worried about or why. At the end of the day, none of us have the right to post things without passing it by the person being posted about. Has society lost all sense of tact and decorum? What happened to a little something called manners?
I thought it would help answer the OP's question if we understood what the issue actually was.
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Old 01-12-2016, 07:30 PM
 
3,279 posts, read 4,050,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southwest88 View Post
{snip} As someone pointed out, if the kid is a minor, no one has the right to put up her image anywhere without a release from the parent. {snip}
I don't know what Facebook policies are on this, but with respect to a person taking a photo of a child and posting it in general wherever, I can assure you that in the USA that practice is absolutely 100% legal, and should be. Where would street photography courtesy of Henri Cartier-Bresson years ago and others here now come from otherwise?

Now, if someone is using anybody's image for promoting a goods or service in terms of advertising, then yes you then deal with model releases. However, if I am in the downtown area and I see some kids gleefully enjoying a water fountain splash pad thing during the summer and I take a photo of this as part of me documenting what's around me and I post that photo on a photo-hosting site simply showing off my photos, that practice is absolutely 100% legal, as well it should be. When I was at an Autozone of all places and saw a sweet child sweetly sleeping on his father's shoulder and I quickly took a photo of that (at close range) to remember it and its sweetness, and I posted it "look at this sweet wonderful slice of life," I was breaking absolutely no laws. (On the other hand, threatening to break my camera or my nose because you don't like what I'm doing--totally 100% against the law, and very much a prosecuteable offense.)

Last edited by shyguylh; 01-12-2016 at 07:39 PM..
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Old 01-12-2016, 08:17 PM
 
Location: North America
14,210 posts, read 10,068,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southwest88 View Post
Sure, but was the kid in public? It sounds like she was @ the neighbors' - where this was all staged & recorded, & then put up on Facebook. The problem with enforcement of privacy against an unknown perp is very different from specific knowledge of the perp, down to Facebook page, date, real-time address, name, & so on. As someone pointed out, if the kid is a minor, no one has the right to put up her image anywhere without a release from the parent.


So, if you truly want to get sticky, you can complain directly to Facebook & have them take down the video, on pain of winding up in court. I'd check first, to see what Facebook's take is on stuff that's posted under these circumstances - if it's without informed consent (parent on behalf of a minor child), then they'll likely take it down. If the neighbor turns mulish, you can always demand his account be shut down. Check with legal first, though.


Yah, you can try to reason with the neighbor. It may get ugly, but stand your ground. If you don't give your consent, then he &/or Facebook are taking your child's image without permission. Stick to your guns, if you feel it's worthwhile.


Certainly schools, Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, gyms, martial arts schools, etc., etc. know that they have to have a signed release by competent authority - usually the parents - before the media or even in-school photog can take pixs or footage for public release.
A photo in a public setting can be shared anywhere as long as it isn't for commercial purposes. You don't even have an expectation of privacy from that in your own home *Unless you ask them to stop that is*. A child doesn't need a parent to consent, because consent is not required in a public setting. Obviously there are some restrictions such as people taking photos of you naked, upskirts, etc etc etc. However, normal day to day photographs are very legal with or without your permission. In the case of this child the Father gave consent anyway. So even if it was required the burden of proof was met. The only way a release would be needed would be if the website required it as part of their TOS.
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Old 01-12-2016, 08:58 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
3,848 posts, read 1,644,923 times
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Default Claws that rend

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~HecateWhisperCat~ View Post
A photo in a public setting can be shared anywhere as long as it isn't for commercial purposes. You don't even have an expectation of privacy from that in your own home *Unless you ask them to stop that is*. A child doesn't need a parent to consent, because consent is not required in a public setting. Obviously there are some restrictions such as people taking photos of you naked, upskirts, etc etc etc. However, normal day to day photographs are very legal with or without your permission. In the case of this child the Father gave consent anyway. So even if it was required the burden of proof was met. The only way a release would be needed would be if the website required it as part of their TOS.
I didn't see that anywhere - the mom was complaining that no parental consent was given, nor did the perp ask nor even advise of the taking.


See The Liability of Posting Photos on Facebook Without Permission | Chron.com


"When Children are Involved

"Think twice before uploading photos of children, even your own. Two states, Georgia and New Jersey, are working on laws that make it illegal for anyone other than a parent to photograph a minor.


"In addition, online sites must comply with the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act of 1998, which has rules regarding the posting of identifying information including a child's school, home town or full name. Though this law does not apply to individuals, Facebook could remove photos that violate the rule at the request of a parent."


(My emphasis - the page is copyrighted for 2016. See the URL for more detail.)


Even though this is aimed @ small businesses, it sounds like mom has legal recourse if she wants to exercise it. Of course, you have to exercise it if you intend to do so in future. But it's her call. & this took me all of 2 minutes, searching my browser.
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Old 01-12-2016, 09:31 PM
 
3,279 posts, read 4,050,967 times
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I did a search for articles with respect to this crazy idea NJ has of making it illegal to photograph children without their parents' permission. Luckily, based on what I read, even the sponsors of the bill admitted that it would be unlikely to pass constitutional muster unless it was in regard only to genital areas, and close-ups of such at that. (In other words, something much like "upskirts," which are illegal and should be.) The comments, too, were about how totally crazy such a law would be, and totally un-American.

Here in TX we used to have an "Improper Photography" law that made it illegal to photograph someone without their permission if the photos could be used for a "gratification" purpose. The law passed, yet ultimately was struck down as being unconstitutional, with the idea basically being "if you're in public, you're fair game." Another such law has since been drafted, but it specifically deals with "upskirts." If you're a woman in a bikini at the lake and someone tries to go up your shorts, the law will address that, but if you end up in a "general overview" head-to-toe type of photo, too bad--you don't parade yourself around in your underwear in public and then gripe about people staring at you or ending up in someone's photos (and I say this as someone who DOES NOT go around "scoping" for women in such places). Hell-o?

Good, I say.

The message is clear--in public, you can be photographed, anything in public view is fair game. GET OVER IT. All of this nonsense is fed by paranoia and, dare I say it, sexism. Yes, it's sexist, and I say this because I see just as many women taking photos of what have you in public, or in birthday parties in a manner that indicates they just assumed all was OK, and nothing is said. Let a man do the exact same thing, especially if he uses a DSLR instead of a smartphone camera or a Kodak type, and people about have a heart attack. That is every bit as sexist as calling a woman a "chick" or suggesting they should remain barefoot and pregnant ever was.

That some people want this, it's totally based on paranoia, and the last thing laws should be based on is paranoia and hysteria. This idea that someone is likely to take that photo and scoop your child off and use them for some unfortunate Ouija board experiment or something, it's so far fetched as to not even rate on a scale of what's worth worrying about. Your kids are much more likely to be killed in a car accident, should we ban cars and only ride our children around on horseback?

So, in all likelihood, this mom can perhaps complain to Facebook but does not have LEGAL recourse per se, and that's nothing but a good thing. Neither you, nor your child, nor your dog, nor your cat have any so-called "right to privacy" in the public setting, PERIOD, nor should you.
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Old 01-12-2016, 09:47 PM
 
3,939 posts, read 3,843,429 times
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Just nicely ask your neighbor to take it off his FB page as it's pretty common knowledge in my community of friends/ neighbors that boundaries, esp. regarding social media, is important. I want my neighbors to respect my space.
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Old 01-12-2016, 11:00 PM
 
16,990 posts, read 20,591,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoriNJ View Post
The guy was rude not to ask your permission to post a video of your little girl. Ask him (or have your husband ask him) politely to take it down if it makes you uncomfortable.
Agree, but do it in person. And do it in a friendly non-confrontational manner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
These are actually two very different issues. And you seem to be suggesting that posting a picture of a child will make them a victim or a pedophile.

The issues with pictures and pedophiles is very different than stalking. The vast majority of child molesters target someone known to them and not children online. Suppose the child wins the local science fair. Would you push parents to not allow their children be in the local paper as well? Far more identifying info available there than in a video as described by the OP.
Newspapers end up in the trash. This could be forwarded and forwarded again online.

It's really a shame(I guess I don't understand it) why people think every detail of their lives must be posted online with photos and videos.

I really don't care what you had for lunch.
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Old 01-12-2016, 11:07 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
3,848 posts, read 1,644,923 times
Reputation: 3606
Default Yah, honest, it fell off the truck

Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
...



The message is clear--in public, you can be photographed, anything in public view is fair game. GET OVER IT. All of this nonsense is fed by paranoia and, dare I say it, sexism. Yes, it's sexist, and I say this because I see just as many women taking photos of what have you in public, or in birthday parties in a manner that indicates they just assumed all was OK, and nothing is said. Let a man do the exact same thing, especially if he uses a DSLR instead of a smartphone camera or a Kodak type, and people about have a heart attack. That is every bit as sexist as calling a woman a "chick" or suggesting they should remain barefoot and pregnant ever was.

...



So, in all likelihood, this mom can perhaps complain to Facebook but does not have LEGAL recourse per se, and that's nothing but a good thing. Neither you, nor your child, nor your dog, nor your cat have any so-called "right to privacy" in the public setting, PERIOD, nor should you.
Yah, yah. & was the 2nd grader in question in public at the time the footage was shot? I don't see it here anywhere. The mom's complaint is that her daughter was videoed wearing some sports hat (put on her by the neighbor, presumably), next to the neighbor's house. Which says to me likely in the neighbor's yard - not in public, to my mind. It's easy enough to check - just ask the daughter, or even look @ the footage & see exactly where it is.


If the child wasn't in public @ the time, then the defense you're putting forth goes up in smoke. Broadly speaking, it sounds like enticement - the neighbor gets the 2nd grader over there - or sees her playing with his kid(s) & decides - on the spur of the moment? - to put his sports team hat on her head (which he just happens to have to hand, plus videocam or smartphone, whatever he used, also ready to hand), have her say some sports related nonsense (& how many trial runs did that take?), shoots the video, makes sure it's what he wants, doesn't ask the parents for permission, posts the footage to Facebook.

Last edited by southwest88; 01-12-2016 at 11:09 PM.. Reason: fix
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Old 01-12-2016, 11:18 PM
 
3,279 posts, read 4,050,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southwest88 View Post
{snip} the neighbor gets the 2nd grader over there - or sees her playing with his kid(s) & decides - on the spur of the moment? - to put his sports team hat on her head (which he just happens to have to hand, plus videocam or smartphone, whatever he used, also ready to hand), have her say some sports related nonsense (& how many trial runs did that take?), shoots the video, makes sure it's what he wants, doesn't ask the parents for permission, posts the footage to Facebook.
Yeah, and--so what? His child and that lady's child are friends. Taking a photo of that is the most natural thing in the world to do and not something someone ought to have to ask permission to do. Frankly, if my child had such a friend, I'd be apt to do such a thing, because to me it's completely natural to take a photo of my child and his friend. Heck, somewhere along the line when taking photos of my own son, this child would be likely to ask me to do so. I'm not going to tell him no because his mother or father believe there really is a Big Foot (eg, the myth of the pervert photographer).

I don't see anything perverted at all in what he did. NOTHING. I see nothing inconsiderate either. Parents who fear that sort of thing need to loosen up and stop thinking every man with a camera is an "America's Most Wanted" segment percolating in the coffee maker. Regardless, if this sort of thing bothers a parent so much, to me the onus is on THEM to communicate this and to communicate it clearly from day one, not make a mountain out of a pebble after the fact over something so natural and un-weird.

It reminds me of when, years ago, my son was 2 and we were at a person's home having a yard sale. During this time a girl about age 12 took a liking to him and picked him up and held him. She didn't even ask, she just did it. I took a photo of this, because I saw it as such a sweet interaction. The mother came over and asked me to delete the photo. I was nice, but I refused. I explained (1) my son was in that photo and I didn't intend to delete a photo featuring my own son (2) I do this as a hobby, there's nothing weird going on and (3) your daughter picked up my son without even asking, she just assumed, but instead of seeing some supposed "boundaries violation" or such and making a fuss over how she should've asked first, I saw a beautiful and sweet moment worth freeze-framing to remember in my old years, and that we'd all do well to see things that way vs seeing a potential episode of "America's Most Wanted" in the making.

Same thing here. Almost for sure, this was just a sweet moment immortalized for enjoyment later. Period. It would be a shame, ridiculous really, to unnecessarily taint and pollute something so sweet and tender. To me, if there's any problem here, it's that anymore you can't tell someone when they're being ridiculous, even nicely and diplomatically. It's like that post about the woman crying fowl about "fat shaming" at McDonald's, people are so "offended" or "felt uncomfortable" about anything anymore I can't even care to bother accommodating everyone anymore. Sometimes people just need to be flat-out told "you're making much ado over nothing, lighten up a little bit."

Last edited by shyguylh; 01-12-2016 at 11:49 PM..
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