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You must have read a different Bill of Rights than I have. You might have been mistakenly taught that you are not part of the greater public world and somehow hold the copyright to all possible images and references to you and your minor children, but you are, indeed part of that public world.
This is a dangerously anti-social concept that should be addressed once and for all by the national legislature.
Indeed. Sometimes, in reading what is written in various places and in seeing people sometimes flip out in public, it makes it appear that it may well be necessary. There seems to be this notion that any part of my face, even depicted in a drawing, is only mine to "license out" to whomever I select-fully allow, and that goes quadruple for my children. Outside of usage for an advertising campaign or commercial promotions etc, that has NEVER been the case. It certainly shouldn't be changed to where it is, and it especially shouldn't be done on account of paranoia over predators that's baseless.
It upsets me a lot in large part because I am one who remembers well dealing with the limitations of film and how much that restricted your ability to take photos of your life memories. When digital changed that, I was ecstatic, it was like breaking free from a leash. After years of being bottled up before being set free, I don't intend to NOW after all of this time become bottled up yet again on account of what is really nothing but paranoia combined with a warped notion of "owning my likeness" etc.
A friend of yours being camera shy in the generic sense and wanting to be included in photos only at a minimum as a "courtesy," people saying "take what you want but I'd rather you not "tag" me, especially with embarrassing photos," that's perhaps OK, but thinking that all of photography now has to be based on explicit consent even in public and that you HAVE to ask EVERY time--heck no.
One of my former students is the child of a politician. His younger brother is vaguely infamous for picking his nose while the entire family was up on stage during some public event. He did not agree to be a public figure but the close ups still made it to the local news. Strangely he is still fine.
So no, if someone is in public, expect to be on camera, you are all the time anyway. There is no line here, except the legal one, where unless you have an expectation of privacy (like say in the public bathroom) than you do not have a right to not be filmed when you are in public.
And could we stop moving the goal posts? This child was not molested, the video was not embarrassing in nature, etc.
Do you have kids?
If so, you're saying you would be COMPLETELY fine with another adult videotaping your kids doing something embarrassing and posting it on Facebook for all to see? You wouldn't say a word to this person about it? Wouldn't bother you in the least?
And, regarding the legal line: don't several states prohibit taping another person without their permission? Furthermore, is everything that is "legal" "morally right"? Or are citizens allowed to make their own call on certain issues?
You draw the line pretty much where the law is now. Anything that is legally observable in public is legally recordable.
Not asking about the legal line--asking what YOU would be comfortable with. Regarding YOUR children. Are you saying, anything regarding your children is fine as long as it's legal?
If so, you're saying you would be COMPLETELY fine with another adult videotaping your kids doing something embarrassing and posting it on Facebook for all to see? You wouldn't say a word to this person about it? Wouldn't bother you in the least?
I can answer that.
I have kids, and it would bother me zero. I have the good sense to realize that video isn't going to cause them any drama. They weren't being filmed changing clothes in their bedroom.
What's that video going to do to them? Steal their soul? Cause them to run off in the middle of the night with Cary Grant's ghost? Really, what's it going to do?
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Originally Posted by AfternoonCoffee
And, regarding the legal line: don't several states prohibit taping another person without their permission? Furthermore, is everything that is "legal" "morally right"? Or are citizens allowed to make their own call on certain issues?
My understanding is that you're probably referring to wiretapping laws where you can't tape someone SECRETLY without telling them. There is no law stating you have to ask someone's permission in public before you can photograph or video-tape them, I'm guessing because most cameras etc tend to be visible is the reason why consent isn't required there. I do know, though, that taking photos and videos in public in this sort of way is very much legal.
And it's moral, too. I see no immorality here, none.
Public sports... you have to expect this in today's culture. You can't shield your kids. They're going to be all over people's facebooks unless you keep them in seclusion.
Yes, four. And I have been a teacher for 10+ years.
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If so, you're saying you would be COMPLETELY fine with another adult videotaping your kids doing something embarrassing and posting it on Facebook for all to see? You wouldn't say a word to this person about it? Wouldn't bother you in the least?
Again, with MOVING THE GOAL POSTS.
What the OP stated was not a remotely embarrassing situation.
No, I wouldn't be bothered about it. Life is embarrassing. And everyone should be aware that if they are in public, they are likely being videotaped at any time. It is what it is.
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And, regarding the legal line: don't several states prohibit taping another person without their permission?
Is this something I am supposed to look up for you?
Thr general rule is if there is no expectation of privacy, "see it shoot it". I doubt this is different from state to state as it is generally part of the first amendment protection of photograph as a medium with a "message" aka speech.
As for "taping" it is often considered illegal to record audio without NOTIFICATION (rather than permission) but most cases have established that just seeing a camera qualifies notification.
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Furthermore, is everything that is "legal" "morally right"? Or are citizens allowed to make their own call on certain issues?
How is it remotely moral to expect people to stop recording and sharing their moments occurring in PUBLIC just because there might be other people in the background? A few years ago I was unknowingly involved in a wedding proposal at a public aquarium. I was videotaped as part of a small talk leading up to the proposal, and I heard the couple say how excited they were to post it. How would it have been remotely moral for me to demand that they not post the video because I was in it? I suppose I could have demanded they edit me out of it, which likely would have ruined the lead up to the clever part of the proposal but how is that the moral high ground?
Someone mentioned "moving the goalposts" and I have to say that's being done by both "sides" of this debate.
I can only speak for myself, but my discomfort with the OP's situation doesn't apply to ALL solutions. I am fine with class photos, sports photos, other people's photographs where my child might appear in the background (like at school or the park.) Heck, at this point, I'm ok with friends posting pix of my kids--even though my DH and I don't, and I am always a little startled when I see pix of my kids floating around. But, even though I don't agree with it, I understand other people like to have their every minute of life documented for the world to see and sometimes our lives overlap. I'm fine with that.
But if a neighbor posted a video of my kid--in which my kid was the primary or only subject--to their entire Facebook world, unbeknownst to me, I would be very uncomfortable with that. They may be within their legal rights, but I would absolutely be concerned about their ability to use good judgement. I would know that this person was likely an "over-sharer" and someone to be on alert around. If the video made me uncomfortable enough that I discussed it with him and politely asked him to remove it, I got anything remotely resembling some of the replies in this thread, I would know this person is NOT someone I will engage with to any degree. A decent neighbor/friend would be understanding towards someone's feelings about their own kid. Someone who responds with "well it's my right! Blah blah blah..." is an insensitive asshat and bizarre social misfit with whom I would not waste my time. Nor would I want my kids picking up bad manners and rude behavior from his kids--who likely lack the same sense of boundaries and proprietary as their parent.
Yes, four. And I have been a teacher for 10+ years.
Again, with MOVING THE GOAL POSTS.
What the OP stated was not a remotely embarrassing situation.
No, I wouldn't be bothered about it. Life is embarrassing. And everyone should be aware that if they are in public, they are likely being videotaped at any time. It is what it is.
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Originally Posted by lkb0714
Is this something I am supposed to look up for you?
Wow. No, merely a reminder that there are some limits to what you can record without someone's knowledge or consent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714
Thr general rule is if there is no expectation of privacy, "see it shoot it". I doubt this is different from state to state as it is generally part of the first amendment protection of photograph as a medium with a "message" aka speech.
As for "taping" it is often considered illegal to record audio without NOTIFICATION (rather than permission) but most cases have established that just seeing a camera qualifies notification.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714
How is it remotely moral to expect people to stop recording and sharing their moments occurring in PUBLIC just because there might be other people in the background?
What was that about "GOAL POSTS"?? This thread isn't about "people in the background" and it's really not even about "people sharing their moments" (super-cheesy phrasing, btw. Which is probably a good reason why people should share less of their moments.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714
A few years ago I was unknowingly involved in a wedding proposal at a public aquarium. I was videotaped as part of a small talk leading up to the proposal, and I heard the couple say how excited they were to post it. How would it have been remotely moral for me to demand that they not post the video because I was in it? I suppose I could have demanded they edit me out of it, which likely would have ruined the lead up to the clever part of the proposal but how is that the moral high ground?
Yeah...what was that thing you wrote...? "STOP MOVING THE GOAL POSTS" Right. This^^^ situation is nothing like the one presented here in this thread!!
The moral high ground is not using someone else's kid for laughs. It is also respecting another family's privacy. The moral high ground is asking a friend or neighbor before you post a video in which their kid is the primary--or only--subject. The moral high ground is also demurring to the parent when the subject matter is their minor child. This is not even a difficult question.
The moral high ground is not using someone else's kid for laughs. It is also respecting another family's privacy. The moral high ground is asking a friend or neighbor before you post a video in which their kid is the primary--or only--subject. The moral high ground is also demurring to the parent when the subject matter is their minor child. This is not even a difficult question.
Oh please, no one is "using anybody." The child did something funny, a photo/video was taken and other people saw it and probably got a good laugh out of it. End of story. Someone's feelings was hurt, but frankly, sometimes all you have to do is breath and someone will find a reason to complain about it. It doesn't mean we all need to deprive ourselves of oxygen.
Privacy? In public, YOU DON'T HAVE THAT RIGHT. It does not exist. The minute you leave your house, your "right to privacy" is over. It always has been, this is nothing new.
As I said earlier, sometimes people need to be told "you're making a fuss out of nothing." Some complaints don't deserve "respect," they deserve to be clarified as the malarkey they are. This is one of those, and that many have posted "it's no big deal, I'm sure he meant well" is testimony to that.
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