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Old 02-01-2016, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Arizona
323 posts, read 344,719 times
Reputation: 638

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I was out with girlfriends this weekend when one of them started to share a story about a friend of her. The woman (let's call her April) is in her mid-30s and hasn't had luck in the love department. April always laments about not being married or a mom. She's been on eHarmony, Match and now Tinder.

Sounds pretty run-of-the-mill right? Here's where April got weird and our debate started. April has been hooking up with random guys on Tinder (shocker). Well she hooked up with one guy a few times and ended up pregnant. She thought it was great and would solidify a relationship (even though they've never been on a real day...literally just hooking up and leaving). Well, he didn't want to be in a relationship and he doesn't want to be a dad. She definitely is keeping the baby because she wants to be a mom really badly and now she's mad that he wants nothing to do with her or the child and has accused her of "trapping him." She claims that she will go for child support and full custody and he's mad because he has no legal way out of it. So our conversation went on about choices for men vs. choices for women when it comes to being a parent.

Now, we all know that you should exercise extreme caution when hooking up - thats a no brainer, but oops pregnancies happen and now another life is involved. My friend who shared April's story was adamant about how the guy needs to step up and be a dad or at the very least cough of the cash. Another friend was saying he shouldn't have to if he didn't really have the intention of being a parent - her question was "why should his life be ruined by a mistake?"

Me and another friend just stayed out of it but I have been thinking about it...we have a lot to say about women's reproductive rights, but what about men? Shouldn't they have them too? I honestly don't see a winner in the whole April situation, but it does paint a bleak picture (and serve as a lesson to ppl who just like to hook up).

What do you think?
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Old 02-01-2016, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
49,932 posts, read 59,640,807 times
Reputation: 98359
Anyone who has sex HAS TO KNOW that pregnancy is a possibility. You said it yourself; it's a NO BRAINER.

But making a baby doesn't make you a parent. Can she legally force his hand? Sure. Should she? That's an ethical choice.

So ... congratulations?? She basically got pregnant off a one-night stand. I'm sure this poor kid's life will be guided by many more similarly poor decisions that "April" makes.
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Old 02-01-2016, 09:46 AM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
11,495 posts, read 26,755,293 times
Reputation: 28029
It's definitely a popular subject for debate. The way I feel about it is that each person has control over the output of their own body. The man can use a condom or not have sex with a woman he doesn't want to impregnate. The reason that the woman can legally choose to terminate or continue the pregnancy is that she's the one who will carry the baby and she's the one facing any health risks from the pregnancy.

Anyhow, legally the father of the baby will have a financial obligation. Why do we force men to support their children, if they didn't want the baby? Because they played a part in making the baby, and because many men want to have sex, but not as many want to support their offspring if they're not still in a relationship with the mother of that offspring.
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Old 02-01-2016, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Arizona
323 posts, read 344,719 times
Reputation: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmsn4Life View Post
Anyone who has sex HAS TO KNOW that pregnancy is a possibility. You said it yourself; it's a NO BRAINER.

But making a baby doesn't make you a parent. Can she legally force his hand? Sure. Should she? That's an ethical choice.

So ... congratulations?? She basically got pregnant off a one-night stand. I'm sure this poor kid's life will be guided by many more similarly poor decisions that "April" makes.
Yep, totally agree. It's just a really weird situation, but the more I think about it, it's pretty common. I've had a friend myself who just wanted to hook up for the sole benefit of getting pregnant because she's nearly 40 and desperately wants to be a mom and I went to high school with a lot of girls who did similar things after school. Just now hearing the other side makes it seem so much more complicated. People are dealing with another human now...one who didnt ask for the situation. Just seems so strange and sets up for a potentially unhealthy situation for the mother and child.
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Old 02-01-2016, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Arizona
323 posts, read 344,719 times
Reputation: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgehog_Mom View Post
Anyhow, legally the father of the baby will have a financial obligation. Why do we force men to support their children, if they didn't want the baby? Because they played a part in making the baby, and because many men want to have sex, but not as many want to support their offspring if they're not still in a relationship with the mother of that offspring.
But let's take a look at it from that side too - shouldn't a man be able to say "I revoke parental rights" and have that include financial? That means they have ZERO rights to the child (no updates, school plays, visitations, holidays, etc.) and ZERO financial obligations. Is that pretty horrible? Yes, but so is forcing someone to have a relationship with a child or at least financially support them when they don't want to.

If women can terminate a pregnancy without the father knowing, can't a man terminate a relationship he didn't want?
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Old 02-01-2016, 10:10 AM
 
16,715 posts, read 19,321,377 times
Reputation: 41481
Quote:
Originally Posted by TxHeather View Post
I was out with girlfriends this weekend when one of them started to share a story about a friend of her. The woman (let's call her April) is in her mid-30s and hasn't had luck in the love department. April always laments about not being married or a mom. She's been on eHarmony, Match and now Tinder.

Sounds pretty run-of-the-mill right? Here's where April got weird and our debate started. April has been hooking up with random guys on Tinder (shocker). Well she hooked up with one guy a few times and ended up pregnant. She thought it was great and would solidify a relationship (even though they've never been on a real day...literally just hooking up and leaving). Well, he didn't want to be in a relationship and he doesn't want to be a dad. She definitely is keeping the baby because she wants to be a mom really badly and now she's mad that he wants nothing to do with her or the child and has accused her of "trapping him." She claims that she will go for child support and full custody and he's mad because he has no legal way out of it. So our conversation went on about choices for men vs. choices for women when it comes to being a parent.

Now, we all know that you should exercise extreme caution when hooking up - thats a no brainer, but oops pregnancies happen and now another life is involved. My friend who shared April's story was adamant about how the guy needs to step up and be a dad or at the very least cough of the cash. Another friend was saying he shouldn't have to if he didn't really have the intention of being a parent - her question was "why should his life be ruined by a mistake?"

Me and another friend just stayed out of it but I have been thinking about it...we have a lot to say about women's reproductive rights, but what about men? Shouldn't they have them too? I honestly don't see a winner in the whole April situation, but it does paint a bleak picture (and serve as a lesson to ppl who just like to hook up).

What do you think?

It's not fair of her to want to get pregnant and then ruin someone else's life over it. If she wants a baby, she should be able to pay for it herself. As women, we are the last gateway to pregnancy. If we don't want to get pregnant, we can use birth control, the day after pill, sponges, rubbers, etc.


I think April is a POS and I hope she has a miscarriage.
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Old 02-01-2016, 10:10 AM
 
16,579 posts, read 20,625,859 times
Reputation: 26860
Quote:
Originally Posted by TxHeather View Post
But let's take a look at it from that side too - shouldn't a man be able to say "I revoke parental rights" and have that include financial? That means they have ZERO rights to the child (no updates, school plays, visitations, holidays, etc.) and ZERO financial obligations. Is that pretty horrible? Yes, but so is forcing someone to have a relationship with a child or at least financially support them when they don't want to.

If women can terminate a pregnancy without the father knowing, can't a man terminate a relationship he didn't want?
When a woman terminates a pregnancy, there's no child needing support from adults. When a woman decides to carry a child to term and keep it, that baby is going to need financial support.

If there were another means of supporting the child besides taxpayers, there would probably be a mechanism for bio dads to relinquish all rights and not pay child support. But when we, as a society, start asking who is going to support a child, we naturally turn to the biological parents of the child first.

Your friend is being selfish and putting her desire to be a mother before the need of her baby to be born into a stable situation with two loving parents. If she lied to the hook-up about being on birth control then she screwed him over as well. But he should have used a condom, had a vasectomy or not hooked up with a stranger, so he also bears responsibility. She's also an idiot for thinking he would step up when he found out she was pregnant. It's Tinder for heaven's sake.

What a mess. I feel for that baby.
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Old 02-01-2016, 10:37 AM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
11,495 posts, read 26,755,293 times
Reputation: 28029
Quote:
Originally Posted by TxHeather View Post
But let's take a look at it from that side too - shouldn't a man be able to say "I revoke parental rights" and have that include financial? That means they have ZERO rights to the child (no updates, school plays, visitations, holidays, etc.) and ZERO financial obligations. Is that pretty horrible? Yes, but so is forcing someone to have a relationship with a child or at least financially support them when they don't want to.

If women can terminate a pregnancy without the father knowing, can't a man terminate a relationship he didn't want?
He's not forced to have any relationship other than financial.

And historically men were always able to walk away from their offspring, as long as they weren't married to the mother. The woman bore the stigma of having a child out of wedlock and her family bore the burden of supporting the offspring, while the man was free to go on with his life and procreate where he wished. Now that paternity testing is possible, men can't ignore their obligations as easily.

Abortion gives the woman the option that the man always used to have, and that women never did...to pretend it didn't happen, to basically undo the mistake, and to go on with life. Is it morally right? It's not my place to judge someone in that situation, but I do enjoy seeing that women have more choices and reproductive freedom than men now. It used to be that the only way a woman could be sure she wasn't burdened by an unwanted pregnancy was to abstain from sex, and now it's starting to seem more like men are in that position.
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Old 02-01-2016, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Arizona
323 posts, read 344,719 times
Reputation: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgehog_Mom View Post
He's not forced to have any relationship other than financial.

Abortion gives the woman the option that the man always used to have, and that women never did...to pretend it didn't happen, to basically undo the mistake, and to go on with life. Is it morally right? It's not my place to judge someone in that situation, but I do enjoy seeing that women have more choices and reproductive freedom than men now. It used to be that the only way a woman could be sure she wasn't burdened by an unwanted pregnancy was to abstain from sex, and now it's starting to seem more like men are in that position.
Agreed with your last statement there, but as women, we saw all of the negative things you mentioned and the choices women had before reproductive freedom. Shouldn't men have the same freedoms? (i.e. the ability to say, "I don't want this future." Then both genders would have choices.
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Old 02-01-2016, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Illinois
4,751 posts, read 5,412,881 times
Reputation: 12999
Quote:
Originally Posted by TxHeather View Post
I was out with girlfriends this weekend when one of them started to share a story about a friend of her. The woman (let's call her April) is in her mid-30s and hasn't had luck in the love department. April always laments about not being married or a mom. She's been on eHarmony, Match and now Tinder.

Sounds pretty run-of-the-mill right? Here's where April got weird and our debate started. April has been hooking up with random guys on Tinder (shocker). Well she hooked up with one guy a few times and ended up pregnant. She thought it was great and would solidify a relationship (even though they've never been on a real day...literally just hooking up and leaving). Well, he didn't want to be in a relationship and he doesn't want to be a dad. She definitely is keeping the baby because she wants to be a mom really badly and now she's mad that he wants nothing to do with her or the child and has accused her of "trapping him." She claims that she will go for child support and full custody and he's mad because he has no legal way out of it. So our conversation went on about choices for men vs. choices for women when it comes to being a parent.

Now, we all know that you should exercise extreme caution when hooking up - thats a no brainer, but oops pregnancies happen and now another life is involved. My friend who shared April's story was adamant about how the guy needs to step up and be a dad or at the very least cough of the cash. Another friend was saying he shouldn't have to if he didn't really have the intention of being a parent -
her question was "why should his life be ruined by a mistake?"

Me and another friend just stayed out of it but I have been thinking about it...we have a lot to say about women's reproductive rights, but what about men? Shouldn't they have them too? I honestly don't see a winner in the whole April situation, but it does paint a bleak picture (and serve as a lesson to ppl who just like to hook up).

What do you think?
Anyone who thinks a pregnancy is a life ruining situation should be very, very careful about birth control and probably get sterilized. Babies don't ruin anything - they're babies.
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