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"No greater love has no woman than this, than to lay down her life in service to/for her kids."
The author of the article needs to quit her outside job and concentrate on what truly matters and is important: human beings/kids. So, she'll have to sacrifice even more? Yeah. That's sort of the thing about the "choice" to have children.
In today's world of easy contraception, few are forced to have offspring they don't want. The problem is that most want to have offspring easy to raise, completely supported for all of their actions/decisions, and still live like they are single and unattached. Good luck with that!
I'm sorry but this is absurd. I am all for moms working if they want to or need to. Many of my friends work, even full time and I have no issue with it at all. But the idea that soccer or a family vacation is more valuable in the upbringing of a child then a full time parent is laughable.
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Originally Posted by lkb0714
This is your problem, you claim that you don't insult anyone because you don't say someone's name when you give your bs about attachment or whatever crap you think is so insightful but it is clear never the less who you are talking about. The post of mine above doesn't name you, it doesn't even quote you, but you think its about you. And I was trying to illustrate the point, which worked quite well, that even you will infer a post written in generalities is about you and feel insulted/attacked/whatever when it doesn't reference you particularly.
You do this over and over again, quote a poster, state your opinion as if it were fact and then when someone tells you how offensive you are you backpedal so hard it's painful to watch. When this happens thread after thread it's because of YOU.
This.
Again, no one is twisting or misquoting. I found this post (top one) insulting. I said so. That's it. Every time I make a valid point, HFB falls back to this "mean girls club" thing, whatever that means. I'm here because this thread struck a chord with me, as all the working mom threads do, because I am one. It especially fires me up when someone degrades what I do. I work very hard outside the home in order to pay for things like vacations and after school activities, and to save for college and retirement. HFB called that "absurd" and wonders why I got upset.
I won't quote people, because I am so sick of the mean girls club attacking me but.
Isn't that rich.
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I will say if I was getting home at 6 and my kids were being put to bed at 8 (or earlier), and in that time I had to feed, bathe, do homework, tend to my own needs and say hi to my husband...no they would not be getting the same amount of attention from me. And yes, I think more attention is better.
It isn't just quality time, its also quantity time.
But you do you, I will do me. As I have said all along.
Interestingly, there are lots of hours in a day which one can use to do all the things that need to be done. No one thinks for one red second you will do you and leave anyone else alone. Since you never have.
This is your problem, you claim that you don't insult anyone because you don't say someone's name when you give your bs about attachment or whatever crap you think is so insightful but it is clear never the less who you are talking about. The post of mine above doesn't name you, it doesn't even quote you, but you think its about you. And I was trying to illustrate the point, which worked quite well, that even you will infer a post written in generalities is about you and feel insulted/attacked/whatever when it doesn't reference you particularly.
You do this over and over again, quote a poster, state your opinion as if it were fact and then when someone tells you how offensive you are you backpedal so hard it's painful to watch. When this happens thread after thread it's because of YOU.
I remember telling me Mom about my change in religion. I identified myself as religion X. She went on to talk about people of religion X being evil, lacking in morals and all sorts of other awful stuff. When I told her how I thought she was being pretty ugly, she said, I did not call YOU those things. Um. Yah. You did.
"No greater love has no woman than this, than to lay down her life in service to/for her kids."
This is steaming poo. Service is not what is required of parenting. And notice I mentioned PARENTING, not mothering.
Quote:
The author of the article needs to quit her outside job and concentrate on what truly matters and is important: human beings/kids. So, she'll have to sacrifice even more? Yeah. That's sort of the thing about the "choice" to have children.
In today's world of easy contraception, few are forced to have offspring they don't want. The problem is that most want to have offspring easy to raise, completely supported for all of their actions/decisions, and still live like they are single and unattached. Good luck with that!
So as it relates to the OP, I think the issue is not having it all but DOING it all. There is a lot of talk over on the relationship forum about men who have not adapted to the new reality of women having choices. Women have not always either. There are things I see women doing that I would call failing to adapt. One of the main ones is not accepting the different attitudes and concerns of the husbands. Not only do these women want to be able to decide and work and all that, they still want to control the household and the way the kids are raised. IF you want your husband to contribute, you don't get to tell him exactly how. If he does things with the kids that you don't agree with, within reason, that is ok. I remember the time DH took the first baby out without a coat. GASP! But guess what? He was not cold. And he did not die! he cleans the kitchen his way and in his time. If my standards are higher than his, it is on ME to do it. If there is compromise to be had, then there is discussion to be had.
My husband and I share responsibilities. We both work full time. I couldn't ask for more from him as he does everything he can with the kids, housework, paying bills, etc.
That said, it still sucks. We are rarely together as a family. Our opposite shifts mean we never see each other anymore. Yeah, we are financially better off but I can't say I believe its better all around. Its certainly not better for having a quality home life.
Wow, you sound like my daughter a couple of years ago. She and her husband were working opposite shifts and believe me, he pulled his weight. But their family life was very hectic. Since she had the higher paying job, when they moved, her husband stayed home with the kids for two years. So basically - her life was still hectic but at least it was only one parent with the hectic job!
Her husband was great with the kids, but she realized a few things:
1) As great as he was with the kids, she still didn't have the time with them that she yearned for.
2) As helpful as he was, he just didn't clean the house the way she wanted it cleaned.
3) He didn't share her same enthusiasm for cooking healthy meals. He did cook meals, but they weren't her idea of natural and healthy - but she felt like a jerk if she said anything about the meals or the house because he really was doing the things he thought he should be doing. Plus, he's a terrific dad.
4) MOST IMPORTANTLY - he was pretty frustrated. He was going to college but what he wanted to do was be working and building a career. He felt out of place and out of sync.
It took about two years of planning, but they transitioned and now she is a SAHM and her husband is rebuilding his career, and doing a great job of it. They don't have much disposable income but they are both much more content and pleased with the way things are going. And the kids are doing great!
I only bothered reading about 1/2 of the posts because frankly it became a series of people being very defensive about their choices. Here's my perspective as a 50-year old woman who made a conscious decision to NOT have kids -- not because I didn't want them but because of circumstances.
1. The "women have choices!" thing is a myth in certain female circles. In my experience, women who work f/t often look down at women who don't work outside the home with disdain. I have this "argument" with one of my best friends all the time. She says "She's not contributing" -- referring to a woman, either a mother or a non mother, who doesn't have an outside paying job. My response is that it depends on one's definition of "contributing." If you're raising kids, you're DEFINITELY contributing -- more so than if you were working in some corporation that really doesn't add value to the world. Do we REALLY need coca-cola?
If you don't have kids, you might be contributing in other ways. I have a f/t job but it's my own company and sometimes I have lulls in work. This past week I have spent a ton of time doing things for our household that will 1) ultimately save us money (because I did them myself rather than hiring out) 2) ease the task burden on my husband, who has a stressful job for an employer and has less flexibility in the workday, and 3) allow us to spend time on relaxation and fun things over the weekend as a couple instead of doing those errands and projects.
I am a MUCH healthier (eating, fitness and mental-wise) and PLEASANT partner to my spouse when I am not juggling the demands of clients as well as the demands of routine life (and aging/terminally ill parents.)
2) Women my age grew up right in the crease between the SAHM era and the working mother era. We grew up mostly with moms who either stayed home or had part-time jobs. Those of us who had good childhoods in this era naturally pictured ourselves having successful marriages and raising children. Then, as we got into college, the "career" thing was drilled into us. So we started focusing on careers, and having fun. SAHMotherhood was considered "beneath" our educational abilities. "We have plenty of time and options to be moms later!" we thought. This was all fine and good until these women suddenly found themselves at about age 38, wanting kids, wanting that 1970s family life they grew up with, but too afraid to give up the ego gratification, their place on the career track, and the money that comes with upward career mobility. And often still searching for a responsible marriage-minded mate anyway.
My point is that there are a lot of 40-ish women who are unhappy today, despite the "choices" touted by the feminist movement. I know these women. I have been in lengthy conversations with them. They are either exhausted and stressed out from burning the candle at both ends --trying to juggle a career, raising kids and running a home -- or they realize they let the biological train pass them by because they "thought" they could put off having kids, and now they are facing infertility and/or a dearth of men willing to to pair up with a 40-year old woman of decreasing fertility. (Men who want kids usually go for younger women to get on that baby track.)
I know there are always exceptions. However, I am a product of the feminist era and I know a lot of women in my generation who feel like they were duped. Oh, and I hear a lot of the "burning candle at both ends" women incessantly complaining about their husbands not "doing enough." Men never said they "wanted it all, " did they?
So as it relates to the OP, I think the issue is not having it all but DOING it all. There is a lot of talk over on the relationship forum about men who have not adapted to the new reality of women having choices. Women have not always either. There are things I see women doing that I would call failing to adapt. One of the main ones is not accepting the different attitudes and concerns of the husbands. Not only do these women want to be able to decide and work and all that, they still want to control the household and the way the kids are raised. IF you want your husband to contribute, you don't get to tell him exactly how. If he does things with the kids that you don't agree with, within reason, that is ok. I remember the time DH took the first baby out without a coat. GASP! But guess what? He was not cold. And he did not die! he cleans the kitchen his way and in his time. If my standards are higher than his, it is on ME to do it. If there is compromise to be had, then there is discussion to be had.
There's a lot of truth in this. I know I'm guilty of being particular about certain chores. So I do those chores, and I don't complain that no one helps with those. That's my issue completely, not a lack of support. Those posters earlier in the thread commenting that husband's didn't remember stuff without help or just inherently "know" things. Well most likely that's at least partially because it wasn't their job to do it. They were "helping" . If it became their job, I'd venture to guess they'd remember it. Somehow they manage to function at work.
The article in the OP was not a typical family. I know not one person who went back to work one day after giving birth. Who wouldn't have changed their pants. The author, if I recall, was not only the prime income earner but also responsible for keeping her husband's business afloat. Right after giving birth. She had a lot going on. Not typical.
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