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Old 02-19-2016, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Denver area
21,142 posts, read 22,127,166 times
Reputation: 35582

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Speaking of reading carefully, read this:



These are legitimate questions - not necessarily meant for you to answer, but for readers of the article to ponder, to ask themselves so they don't find themselves sitting in pee pants with a bag of poop diapers over in the corner, snapping shots of their feet while they apparently try to keep the family business from going down the drain a day after giving birth.
Perhaps so. Sometime stuff happens we can't imagine and plan for though. No idea whether that's the case and it doesn't matter.
On this same note, anyone who has been divorced or had other unplanned events that may have impacted their life and finances should have simply planned better right?

Last edited by maciesmom; 02-19-2016 at 11:15 AM..
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Old 02-19-2016, 11:07 AM
 
2,540 posts, read 3,305,347 times
Reputation: 5542
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
So you didn't read too carefully, yet you are perfectly willing to make judgements on what her life, her finances etc are and whether her employment is a luxury? What makes something a luxury? Money? Personal satisfaction?

Newsflash -everyone's reality doesn't mimic yours. Your truth isn't true for everyone. There are actually families where the wife/mother is the main income earner! Or their benefit package is much better or consistent or whatever than their husbands. Insurance and retirement are not luxuries.

I have no idea what her finances are - she did mention that she made enough to keep her husband's business afloat. It was near the beginning of the article, not buried somewhere. It appears she works from home. Other than that I don't know, and I won't guess. It's not my business or my concern. Guessing is just a way to try to justify whatever judgement you are projecting.
I didn't say her employment is a luxury. I wasn't even talking about her choosing to work. I was basing my judgement on her returning to work one day after having had a baby, and then proceeding to complain how hard it is to 'have it all'. FWIW, the very phrase 'having it all', as well as the fact that she's writing up blog posts, sort of points to the fact that they're not likely to be a struggling family wearing themselves thin trying to put food on the table. She wouldn't be writing about trying to 'have it all' and worried about chipped polish if that was the case, she'd be too busy surviving. I'm assuming she is not self employed as she refers to conference calls, and I have not heard of employers who demand that a woman be back to work next day after giving birth, nor do I think it would even be legal. Therefore I'm inclined to think it was at least partly a choice on her behalf. I'm also judging the fact that it seems extremely short sighted to be having a child, a second child no less, without factoring in at least a month for the natural and necessary recuperation and bonding for mom and baby. Like I said, what would they have done if she ended up having to stay at the hospital?

I am sort of judging, and that's because what comes through to me, in her post (and sorry, by writing a public post she opens herself up to public opinion, so I don't apologize for having it), is that she expects popping out a baby to be something she does 'on the side', while not taking a second away from her 'main' life which includes career. To me that is a weird and distorted view. Having a baby is a major life-changing event. It's something to be planned carefully, and that includes proper recuperation, the way you would treat recovering from surgery - except more important because there's another human being involved! It should not be treated like going in to get your teeth cleaned. Those very first days should be spent resting, and bonding, and having a ton of physical contact with your newborn. She doesn't even seem to be worried about missing that while taking conference calls, she's concerned about chipped toenails.

Her situation is very different than a working mother who returns to work after maternity leave, having spent those first few weeks with her baby, and having arranged for quality childcare.
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Old 02-19-2016, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Denver area
21,142 posts, read 22,127,166 times
Reputation: 35582
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
These are legitimate questions:




By the way, I've bolded the parts of your post that seem overly inflammatory. Why do you feel compelled to make everything so personally insulting? Can't we have a discussion, ask pertinent questions, and maintain some dignity while contemplate and consider all the options - and possible pitfalls - that women today face?
Really? How is how I used "you" any different that how you used "you" right here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Did you bother to read the information I provided for you, along with the links to the research from the US Census Bureau backing up very specifically what I was saying about the median size and cost per square foot of homes in the US from the 1960s or so to present day?
That was not such a kumbaya tone either.

People are making assumptions about the author of the article and working mothers based on their own ideas and reality. I don't know why that is needed. If a person is happy being and doing what they are, they why the need to knock others down?
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Old 02-19-2016, 11:17 AM
 
2,540 posts, read 3,305,347 times
Reputation: 5542
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post

By the way, I've bolded the parts of your post that seem overly inflammatory. Why do you feel compelled to make everything so personally insulting? Can't we have a discussion, ask pertinent questions, and maintain some dignity while contemplate and consider all the options - and possible pitfalls - that women today face?
Clearly it's too hard for some people to carry on a civilized discussion without going personal.

Again, for maciesmom, the author of the post wrote it up for public opinion, hence opening her situation up to public discussion, and this thread was created to discuss the situation in light of women's choices today. Therefore I am perfectly entitled to express my opinion here, be it positive or negative, without being called out for 'judging'. If the author didn't want her personal life judged, she shouldn't have aired out her dirty laundry publicly - quite literally in her case.
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Old 02-19-2016, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
41,034 posts, read 32,728,581 times
Reputation: 57138
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilCookie View Post
I didn't say her employment is a luxury. I wasn't even talking about her choosing to work. I was basing my judgement on her returning to work one day after having had a baby, and then proceeding to complain how hard it is to 'have it all'. FWIW, the very phrase 'having it all', as well as the fact that she's writing up blog posts, sort of points to the fact that they're not likely to be a struggling family wearing themselves thin trying to put food on the table. She wouldn't be writing about trying to 'have it all' and worried about chipped polish if that was the case, she'd be too busy surviving. I'm assuming she is not self employed as she refers to conference calls, and I have not heard of employers who demand that a woman be back to work next day after giving birth, nor do I think it would even be legal. Therefore I'm inclined to think it was at least partly a choice on her behalf. I'm also judging the fact that it seems extremely short sighted to be having a child, a second child no less, without factoring in at least a month for the natural and necessary recuperation and bonding for mom and baby. Like I said, what would they have done if she ended up having to stay at the hospital?

I am sort of judging, and that's because what comes through to me, in her post (and sorry, by writing a public post she opens herself up to public opinion, so I don't apologize for having it), is that she expects popping out a baby to be something she does 'on the side', while not taking a second away from her 'main' life which includes career. To me that is a weird and distorted view. Having a baby is a major life-changing event. It's something to be planned carefully, and that includes proper recuperation, the way you would treat recovering from surgery - except more important because there's another human being involved! It should not be treated like going in to get your teeth cleaned. Those very first days should be spent resting, and bonding, and having a ton of physical contact with your newborn. She doesn't even seem to be worried about missing that while taking conference calls, she's concerned about chipped toenails.

Her situation is very different than a working mother who returns to work after maternity leave, having spent those first few weeks with her baby, and having arranged for quality childcare.
I got a kick out of reading this, because you nailed what is unsettling about that article very succinctly. I mean, it's not like this woman is squatting in a field, having a baby in the dirt, and then slinging it over her shoulder so she can keep digging up yams or whatever.

She does, however, have a lot of "first world problems." Some of which really do seem self inflicted.

Last edited by KathrynAragon; 02-19-2016 at 11:31 AM..
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Old 02-19-2016, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Denver area
21,142 posts, read 22,127,166 times
Reputation: 35582
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilCookie View Post
Clearly it's too hard for some people to carry on a civilized discussion without going personal.

Again, for maciesmom, the author of the post wrote it up for public opinion, hence opening her situation up to public discussion, and this thread was created to discuss the situation in light of women's choices today. Therefore I am perfectly entitled to express my opinion here, be it positive or negative, without being called out for 'judging'. If the author didn't want her personal life judged, she shouldn't have aired out her dirty laundry publicly - quite literally in her case.

Of course. I agree for the most part - and so am I and everyone else entitled to our opinions. But when you presume facts based on your prejudices and use those concoctions as a basis for your judgement I'm gonna call you out on it. "Some people" are finding it difficult to understand and if by "going personal" you mean the accusations and "mean girl club" comments, you are very correct. "Some People" are attacking other posters and name calling. Just for having an opinions and experiences that differ from their own.

Last edited by maciesmom; 02-19-2016 at 11:40 AM..
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Old 02-19-2016, 11:27 AM
 
2,540 posts, read 3,305,347 times
Reputation: 5542
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I got a kick out of reading this, because you nailed what is unsettling about that article very succinctly. I mean, it's not like this woman is squatting in a field, having a baby in the dirt, and then slinging it over her shoulder so she can keep digging up yams or whatever.
Exactly, except ironically she sort of is - except by conscious decision and not forced circumstances (and yes lack of reasonable planning, if that's the case, is part of a conscious decision in my view)

It's also not a rarity to see this among a certain type of women - as I've said above, it seems to be a certain personality type, extremely type A, control-freak, a go-go-go type person, who don't seem to appreciate that having a child not something you do by the wayside. By some of them, the baby is treated almost as an accessory to their lifestyle, something you just 'do' or 'have', as part of your 'having it all' perfect life. I've also heard this opinion from some prospective parents, of how they'll 'make' the baby 'fit' their lifestyle, not the other way around; the ones that are adamant that *nothing* will change with having a baby. Those always annoy and amuse me. For some, I'm thinking some layers of the upper crust with a slew of domestic help, this actually becomes the case as the baby is turned over to nannies and boarding schools. For others, like the OP, that's not feasible so they're met with the reality of life with a child. Perhaps that's not this woman's case, but that's the bad taste in my mouth that her post left.

Last edited by EvilCookie; 02-19-2016 at 11:40 AM..
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Old 02-19-2016, 11:34 AM
 
9,352 posts, read 8,747,711 times
Reputation: 14410
So what was the point of writing the blog in the first place? To just complain about having it all and how worn out she is?

Perhaps if she didn't spend so much time writing a blog she could get the laundry done.

I find amazing one would decide how to live their life based on what decade it is and what others claim she should do.
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Old 02-19-2016, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Georgia
4,514 posts, read 3,779,689 times
Reputation: 15511
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post

All couples should discuss their expectations with regards to careers, parenting, housework etc. well before marriage.
People can "discuss" their expectations on parenting until the cows come home, but when push comes to shove and that baby shows up, the "expectations" fly right out the window in the face of outside demands on time and attention. Those earnest, sincere discussions between partners prior to the wedding/baby on "how we will split everything 50/50", etc., are so well-meant, but until you are bleary-eyed with fatigue, trying to finish up an important research project for a client at 1:00 am when the baby refuses to sleep, and you are typing the report one-handed while holding the baby in the other arm, and your spouse has to be up at 4 am for a conference call with Japan, that "50/50" is charmingly optimistic.

It will never be 50/50. At some point, it's going to be 0/100. At another point, it's going to be 100/0. or 70/30, or 25/75.

I had no idea that I would be a SAHM. Never in the plans, not even once. As a child of the 60's and 70's, with both parents working, I just assumed that I would work while raising a family. So, when I became a SAHM, that "50/50" went out the door -- when it came to the kids, and when it came to my earning power. I learned to allow myself plenty of time for consulting projects, because a report I could do in two days pre-baby suddenly turned into 2 weeks. My husband was a very hands-on dad when he got home and on weekends -- for him, it was relaxation, he used the kid-time as his decompression time. He eventually became self-employed, and then we were BOTH at home full time!

But over the long term -- we both contributed to our family in our own way, we both raised two wonderful kids, and wonders of wonders, I re-entered the work force and am fully employed because I CHOOSE to be. My husband took four years off to pursue his Ph.D. -- that was HIS choice, and I supported it fully. (Men should have choices, too, don't you think?)
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Old 02-19-2016, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
41,034 posts, read 32,728,581 times
Reputation: 57138
Quote:
Originally Posted by dblackga View Post
People can "discuss" their expectations on parenting until the cows come home, but when push comes to shove and that baby shows up, the "expectations" fly right out the window in the face of outside demands on time and attention. Those earnest, sincere discussions between partners prior to the wedding/baby on "how we will split everything 50/50", etc., are so well-meant, but until you are bleary-eyed with fatigue, trying to finish up an important research project for a client at 1:00 am when the baby refuses to sleep, and you are typing the report one-handed while holding the baby in the other arm, and your spouse has to be up at 4 am for a conference call with Japan, that "50/50" is charmingly optimistic.

It will never be 50/50. At some point, it's going to be 0/100. At another point, it's going to be 100/0. or 70/30, or 25/75.

I had no idea that I would be a SAHM. Never in the plans, not even once. As a child of the 60's and 70's, with both parents working, I just assumed that I would work while raising a family. So, when I became a SAHM, that "50/50" went out the door -- when it came to the kids, and when it came to my earning power. I learned to allow myself plenty of time for consulting projects, because a report I could do in two days pre-baby suddenly turned into 2 weeks. My husband was a very hands-on dad when he got home and on weekends -- for him, it was relaxation, he used the kid-time as his decompression time. He eventually became self-employed, and then we were BOTH at home full time!

But over the long term -- we both contributed to our family in our own way, we both raised two wonderful kids, and wonders of wonders, I re-entered the work force and am fully employed because I CHOOSE to be. My husband took four years off to pursue his Ph.D. -- that was HIS choice, and I supported it fully. (Men should have choices, too, don't you think?)
Best post of this entire thread.
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