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Old 02-19-2016, 09:47 PM
 
10,090 posts, read 6,512,408 times
Reputation: 23714

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
People keep throwing around the "research" word in this thread and then not bothering to post the actual research.

And I call BS, adoptive parents, mothers who were seriously ill, even stay at home dads, all can bond with children outside the magical picture you paint of "good" moms doing nothing but holding their babies. Babies who, btw, sleep some 16 to 17 hours a day.

Fine, it is what you did. That does not make it any more or less correct than parents who did not do what you did. You are not the arbitrator of all that is correct in motherhood.
Well that was geared towards me. Yes bonding can happen outside the first months and years, and attachment disorders can be repaired (to some degree...depending on the help offered, the severity and the individuals in the picture).

I invite you to actually research attachment fully...hey, maybe LIVE adoption for 16 years before you call BS on the research that has been offered (I provided several links). Read books, work closely with attachment therapists, join adoption and connected parenting groups, teach a insecurely attached child to trust...then you can call BS on me

It isn't about holding a baby. Its about responding, providing comfort, and being a consistent presence. Not all kids who don't have these things fulfilled will struggle...some will. Adoption is a case where this happens a lot. More then you know. But...you don't know.
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Old 02-19-2016, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Texas
42,285 posts, read 49,863,906 times
Reputation: 67169
It's because you really can't do it.

So, yeah. It sucks.
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Old 02-19-2016, 09:51 PM
 
15,778 posts, read 13,205,091 times
Reputation: 19657
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFlyingBird View Post
It is being understood now that adoption trauma happens in babies who are adopted at birth also (not all children experience it, before people have a hissy fit). Attachment issues can arise from problems in the first few months of life. For a long time people thought if the adoption happened before the child could remember it, then it wouldn't affect them. Later it was said it was only trauma between ages of 6 months and 3 years. And they raised adopted kids with those expectations. Luckily we know better now and that a newborn infant isn't just a lump of cells. They have needs far beyond just being fed and changed.. We also know maternal depression, extended time in the NICU, family disruptions, etc can cause attachment issues in the first months of life. Even high needs infants (colic, etc) can have attachment issues because they aren't able to bond with their parent because of their discomfort. Insecurely attached adults often have insecurely attached children...it gets passed on. I am really against blaming parents for attachment problems. Most parents are doing the best they can at a challenging time in life (having an infant!).

I am talking specifically about insecure attachment, not the severe RAD. Attachment problems often look like ADHD, depression, anxiety, shyness, cognitive and behavioral issues in children. They contribute to relationship problems as adults, depression, anxiety, impulsive behavior, etc.

Understanding Ambivalent/Anxious Attachment

This is not a scientific study and its link to its so called references is broken. Not a reliable source.

Insecure Attachment, Dysfunctional Attitudes, and Low Self-Esteem Predicting Prospective Symptoms of Depression and Anxiety During Adolescence

Are you serious? Do you even read more than the titles? This has NOTHING to do with infants and in fact was a study of middle school children with no information about them as infants.

http://www.psychology.sunysb.edu/att...line/karen.pdf

Maagzine article from 26 years ago. Not a study, no list of references.

relationship and emotional trauma: an on-line video for helping children heal

A video, parroting the same information, very little of which is related to any of the conversation going on here. Kind of a no brainer to make sure that an infant has an engaged caregiver. Oh, and don't abuse them. Revolutionary.

Mary Ainsworth | Attachment Styles | Simply Psychology

Did you just paste in all the links that came up when you googled attachment? This one is about infants over a year old. Not newborns.

Attachment Disorder, Attachment Therapy - What is Attachment Disorder?

Just google "insecure attachment"...there is massive info out there.

ETA I am responding to one line in evil cookie's post, not anything else. Not saying working mom's are going to have attachment problem children. Just having a conversation and sharing thoughts and info based on a line/topic in the quoted thread.
Nothing about newborns, no real science, more of the same.
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Old 02-19-2016, 09:53 PM
 
10,090 posts, read 6,512,408 times
Reputation: 23714
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Nothing about newborns, no real science, more of the same.
I was trying to present the basics of insecure attachment.

Tomorrow I will get you more links...if you are interested in actually learning, not just trying to flame someone...which I doubt
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Old 02-19-2016, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Texas
42,285 posts, read 49,863,906 times
Reputation: 67169
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFlyingBird View Post
I was trying to present the basics of insecure attachment.

Tomorrow I will get you more links...if you are interested in actually learning, not just trying to flame someone...which I doubt
More like interested in defending her choices instead of having to face the reality.

Anyone who gets that defensive does so for a reason.
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Old 02-19-2016, 09:55 PM
 
15,778 posts, read 13,205,091 times
Reputation: 19657
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFlyingBird View Post
Well that was geared towards me. Yes bonding can happen outside the first months and years, and attachment disorders can be repaired (to some degree...depending on the help offered, the severity and the individuals in the picture).

I invite you to actually research attachment fully...hey, maybe LIVE adoption for 16 years before you call BS on the research that has been offered (I provided several links). Read books, work closely with attachment therapists, join adoption and connected parenting groups, teach a insecurely attached child to trust...then you can call BS on me

It isn't about holding a baby. Its about responding, providing comfort, and being a consistent presence. Not all kids who don't have these things fulfilled will struggle...some will. Adoption is a case where this happens a lot. More then you know. But...you don't know.
LOL @ your research.

Magazine articles, videos, etc. are not research. The one scientific article you posted was not about adopted infants, it wasn't even about adopted children. It was about middle school kids and had nothing to do with their infancy, how they were parented, or adoptions.

Children who suffer from RAD and other attachment disorders, are a serious mental health issue and it is downright disturbing to even bring up attachment disorders in a thread about mothers who work or not. Really draws a fine line about what your real message is.
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Old 02-19-2016, 09:55 PM
 
10,090 posts, read 6,512,408 times
Reputation: 23714
Most of the information I have read on infants and attachment came in the form of books written for therapists. But I am sure if I look I can find some online resources. I am not sure they will hold up to someone who wants to shoot it all down.

I suggest you consider living attachment...maybe you can make a difference in the life of a child as well. Double win.
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Old 02-19-2016, 09:58 PM
 
15,778 posts, read 13,205,091 times
Reputation: 19657
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
More like interested in defending her choices instead of having to face the reality.

Anyone who gets that defensive does so for a reason.
The kicker is, I was home with my daughter until school and then deliberately chose a career to be home with her. But unlike the person I was responding to, I don't pretend that choice is any better or worse than anyone else's AND as a researcher, I am endlessly annoyed by people who post blogs and magazine articles (without references) as scientific sources.
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Old 02-19-2016, 09:59 PM
 
10,090 posts, read 6,512,408 times
Reputation: 23714
Again I offered the links I did (while cooking dinner and managing a household) based on what was easy to access as well as easy to digest for people new to attachment.

I also said I didn't think kids of working moms were doomed to attachment problems. I was responding to a topic in evil cookies post.

God, it is really pointless...
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Old 02-19-2016, 10:06 PM
 
15,778 posts, read 13,205,091 times
Reputation: 19657
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFlyingBird View Post
Most of the information I have read on infants and attachment came in the form of books written for therapists. But I am sure if I look I can find some online resources. I am not sure they will hold up to someone who wants to shoot it all down.

I suggest you consider living attachment...maybe you can make a difference in the life of a child as well. Double win.

OMG, spare me the self-sanctimonious drivel. Make a difference in the life of a child? Really? Yes, teachers who raise orphaned children sure aren't pulling their weight in that department. Ill get right on that.

Read all the books you like. Books are great. But when you are trying to make people feel bad for their choices by talking about "the research" than you should put up actual research (which by definition is peer reviewed not just published in a book). I have posted this absolutely massive study but I will post it again.

Lucas-Thompson, Rachel G., Wendy A. Goldberg, and JoAnn Prause. "Maternal work early in the lives of children and its distal associations with achievement and behavior problems: a meta-analysis." Psychological bulletin 136.6 (2010): 915.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf

Working parents rejoice! Despite the nay sayers your kids will likely turn out fine, and may even have some advantages. In the meantime, lets get stronger and paid family leave, so everyone, not just the middle class and above can afford to make the choices that work best for their families.
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