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Old 02-20-2016, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,597,518 times
Reputation: 7672

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
If your child doesn't go to college this day and age, I hope they have a trade picked out. I grew up in an educated family ~ so going to college was just assumed. Same with my son. Had he been a incredibly poor student - then that would have been a different story - but he was a smart kid.

I can't imagine not having any plans or any savings for my kids' future. Seems irresponsible to me. Counting the minutes in every day isn't everything.

I've already shared my opinion on regret. It's like caring for elderly parents. No matter HOW MUCH you have done, there is still guilt when they die. Often the person who has done the most - feels the most guilt.

So, deathbed regrets are always going to be there even IF you have spent 365 days a year/24 hours a day with your kids.
I understand the allure of education and parents wanting to do what's best for their kid. I grew up in an educated family also as did my wife. Dr'.s, , chemist, IT people, etc. Got it. Genius IQ people too which who cares in my view as that doesn't make a good person often. My point is everyone is not cut out to go to college, academically or attitude wise like your son. I'm a odds player and given the vast majority of people in our country don't attend college by choice/ability, and only about 1/3 of American's are college educated, the odds are much of the savings for college, though well meaning, is for naught.

As for planning, I agree, we are planners too but the reality is long term planning for many is next week. Beyond college, the average retirement fund is pathetic. Most people don't plan for anything in life. What's new. Doesn't make it right/wrong, it just is I suppose. Everyone has their own priorities in life.

Yes, some ultra guilty people will feel if they don't do something 365 days/24 hours a day they aren't fit. That's silly. I'm grounded in reality and talking about people who work more hours than spend with their kids.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Bizarre. Parents who save for college for their children are about giving them opportunities. What if your child wants to do something that requires a college education? Mine wanted to be an oceanographer since she was tiny and would go flipping rocks over at the beach.

And once more, once they go to school, why does someone need to be home the hours they aren't even home? Flex times (something close to 50% of salaried positions are flex time) makes it quite possible for parents to arrange for one to be home to see them off in the morning and the other to be there when they get home. So how is that remotely detrimental?
Other options? College loans. Being smart about college and not going into 100's of k of debt to go to a school because jr/jr'ette "likes" the school. Plan smart like go to community college first, xfer credit to 4 year school, save a pile of money. That's what I did. Don't go to college right after high school. Take a basic job where they will pay for your college. That's what some of my friends did.....they didn't know what they wanted out of high school like most of us, got their 4 year degree and decided they didn't want to work in that field so they seeked out a job that payed for their college in the new degree that they wanted as they were older, more mature, knew what they wanted. I just learned one of my nephews was in his final year of an accounting degree and decided he didn't want to work there and is shifting gears. Lots of wasted money. I had a good childhood friend who's dentist grandfather left him 100's of k in money earmarked for college. He went to an ultra expensive private school, left after 3 years, and works as a handyman as it loves that work. His parents wanted college more than he did. Again, nice to want what's best for one's kid but they all aren't cut out for college one way or another. And it's not in the kids best interest or happiness to be forced into it/assume college is best for everyone, no matter how much a parent wants to control that decision.

Yes, flex time, AWS,etc exists but not for everyone. The vast majority of people don't have this option as of yet.

Having one parent there at various times in the day when they are going to school? That's great, I agree. Many of my comments are geared towards infants/young kids when they are home often and they aren't with either parent most of the day.
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Old 02-20-2016, 04:58 PM
 
Location: here
24,479 posts, read 28,822,810 times
Reputation: 31067
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
Based on your answer in your previous post statement:



It sure sounded like you were referring to your situation, ie "the kids".

Yes, you are entitled to your views as I am to mine. See, we agree on something.



Your friend made the choice to subject herself and her kids to that kind of violence because of money, because it wasn't "easy" to leave the money and future child support after he gets out of jail in a relatively short period of time in such cases? And not choose instead to go to a battered woman shelter that would have allowed her to stay with her kids right away in a moments notice, find family support that might have taken them in, even a religious entity, eventually getting on welfare/public support until she finds her footing, etc. And it's ok to have the kids see violence like that in the home against their mom and not call the cops which teaches the kids there are no consequences for dads actions beating up their mom? This is often what teaches kids their later habits in life, the way to solve future problems when they are adults as it leaves nasty scars/imprints since they see no consequences to unacceptable actions by a parent.

Wow......

But I think you've made the point that I've made in several previous points.....money is indeed as you say a "huge consideration" in the life of more than a few parents, even in situations of violence like this, vs what's best for kids and the mother in such an ugly environment in which they should not be subjected to in any manner. And abusive to subject the kids to such ugliness in the name of money when there are so many other options that would have benefited mom and the kids much more.

I'll say it again.....wow.....just when you've thought you've heard it all.....
The last sentence of my paragraph specifically refers to people I know.

Wow... What Mattie said. Just wow.
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Old 02-20-2016, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
21,164 posts, read 22,178,094 times
Reputation: 35681
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
I understand the allure of education....
sounds like you are describing some kind of boogity boogity nonsense or the "bright lights and big city".

Quote:
Yes, flex time, AWS,etc exists but not for everyone. The vast majority of people don't have this option as of yet.
Having a college degree vastly improves one's chances of having flexible work.
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Old 02-20-2016, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,597,518 times
Reputation: 7672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
"Wow" right back atcha. First of all, the husband in this case was never abusive to his children. He saved that special "love" for his wife. Why are you giving men a pass here? Because you think a shelter is equitable to a 5 bedroom 6 bathroom home in an area with excellent schools? Get real. This mother put up with a lot to keep her children safe.
Kids are immune to such violence because it wasn't directed at them so that's ok/has no major negative effects on the kids?? And that a 5-6 bedroom home with excellent schools takes precedent over exposing kids to a father beating their mother?:shocke d:

A dose of reality:

Effects of Domestic Violence on Children


"What are the long-term effects on children who witness domestic violence?

Whether or not children are physically abused, they often suffer emotional and psychological trauma from living in homes where their fathers abuse their mothers. Children whose mothers are abused are denied the kind of home life that fosters healthy development. Children who grow up observing their mothers being abused, especially by their fathers, grow up with a role model of intimate relationships in which one person uses intimidation and violence over the other person to get their way. "


"Most experts believe that children who are raised in abusive homes learn that violence is an effective way to resolve conflicts and problems. They may replicate the violence they witnessed as children in their teen and adult relationships and parenting experiences. Boys who witness their mothers’ abuse are more likely to batter their female partners as adults than boys raised in nonviolent homes. For girls, adolescence may result in the belief that threats and violence are the norm in relationships."

Please tell me you're are going say this is an early april fools joke on me but I think you're truly serious about the 5-6 bedroom house takes precedent over the kids well being and the data how it effects kids that seems like common sense to me. Please, read the above url and all the studies that talk about how damaging this is to kids what your friend did/is doing to her kids.

"Giving men a pass here"?.....non-sequitur/you lost me. I'm suggesting to get this non-man/creep of a guy thrown in jail where he belongs by beating this woman in front of their kids, who obviously has no respect for his wife or kids, and to teach the kids that violence isn't acceptable so they don't end up like a clone of this abusive "father" as often happens as the studies suggest.

I truly feel horrible for these kids. Very, very sad.
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Old 02-20-2016, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,597,518 times
Reputation: 7672
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
sounds like you are describing some kind of boogity boogity nonsense or the "bright lights and big city".



Having a college degree vastly improves one's chances of having flexible work.
Tell that to those with degrees in the medical field, CPA's, management positions, many jobs in the IT field, etc.

In the end I think it's a wash and largely depends on the employer more than degree/non-degree.
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Old 02-20-2016, 05:24 PM
 
Location: WI
2,826 posts, read 3,073,907 times
Reputation: 4826
How old are your kids, stevek?
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Old 02-20-2016, 05:37 PM
 
12,940 posts, read 19,867,704 times
Reputation: 34062
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
Kids are immune to such violence because it wasn't directed at them so that's ok/has no major negative effects on the kids?? And that a 5-6 bedroom home with excellent schools takes precedent over exposing kids to a father beating their mother?:shocke d:

A dose of reality:

Effects of Domestic Violence on Children


"What are the long-term effects on children who witness domestic violence?

Whether or not children are physically abused, they often suffer emotional and psychological trauma from living in homes where their fathers abuse their mothers. Children whose mothers are abused are denied the kind of home life that fosters healthy development. Children who grow up observing their mothers being abused, especially by their fathers, grow up with a role model of intimate relationships in which one person uses intimidation and violence over the other person to get their way. "


"Most experts believe that children who are raised in abusive homes learn that violence is an effective way to resolve conflicts and problems. They may replicate the violence they witnessed as children in their teen and adult relationships and parenting experiences. Boys who witness their mothers’ abuse are more likely to batter their female partners as adults than boys raised in nonviolent homes. For girls, adolescence may result in the belief that threats and violence are the norm in relationships."

Please tell me you're are going say this is an early april fools joke on me but I think you're truly serious about the 5-6 bedroom house takes precedent over the kids well being and the data how it effects kids that seems like common sense to me. Please, read the above url and all the studies that talk about how damaging this is to kids what your friend did/is doing to her kids.

"Giving men a pass here"?.....non-sequitur/you lost me. I'm suggesting to get this non-man/creep of a guy thrown in jail where he belongs by beating this woman in front of their kids, who obviously has no respect for his wife or kids, and to teach the kids that violence isn't acceptable so they don't end up like a clone of this abusive "father" as often happens as the studies suggest.

I truly feel horrible for these kids. Very, very sad.
Right or wrong, my friend stayed with her abusive spouse because of her children. He was never, ever abusive to them. He opened his wallet wide for whatever they wanted, including spring break trips, cars, sorority expenses, and college. You are truly clueless of the choices mothers must make. When she finally had had enough, she left with her youngest. Now she is working full-time to make sure that girl has the same opportunities her siblings had. Because her father is paying exactly what the court has ordered him to, and not a dime more.

My friend has a college education. If she hadn't agreed to support her husband's work aspirations by remaining home with the kids and enabling him to work and travel, she would be in a far better place than she currently is.
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Old 02-20-2016, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
21,164 posts, read 22,178,094 times
Reputation: 35681
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
Tell that to those with degrees in the medical field, CPA's, management positions, many jobs in the IT field, etc.

In the end I think it's a wash and largely depends on the employer more than degree/non-degree.
1. What makes you think I'm not including those fields? My CPA friends have been able to find part time work that pays very well in comparison to many other part time fields. For years, one of the dentists in the practice I utilized, was a woman. She was not the main dentist (she only worked 1-2 days per week) but having a part time dentist allowed both partners more flexibility. If you have skills and education that are valued, you are in a much better negotiating position. Salary is not the only thing people negotiate.

2. Well yes of course it depends on the employer etc. But again, the more you have to offer the more selectIve you can be about choosing an employer that offers perqs that are important to you.

Last edited by maciesmom; 02-20-2016 at 06:15 PM..
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Old 02-20-2016, 06:10 PM
 
10,090 posts, read 6,530,506 times
Reputation: 23714
The "reasoning" and "logic" on this thread is getting more and more disturbing
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Old 02-20-2016, 06:12 PM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
27,453 posts, read 15,137,104 times
Reputation: 20946
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
sounds like you are describing some kind of boogity boogity nonsense or the "bright lights and big city".



Having a college degree vastly improves one's chances of having flexible work.
Bingo. It's like some kind of pipe dream. I can't believe this is even in question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
Tell that to those with degrees in the medical field, CPA's, management positions, many jobs in the IT field, etc.

In the end I think it's a wash and largely depends on the employer more than degree/non-degree.
Management can also have 'work from home' jobs - especially if their employees also do. A college degree is more likely to make that happen.
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